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Cheap DVI or exp Progessive player for my PJ??

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by mikeaitch, Mar 9, 2004.

  1. mikeaitch

    mikeaitch
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    Just got myself the Sony HS20...

    Thing is, what will give me a better result,

    A cheap 935 Samsung with upscaling to 720p via DVI £180?

    A HDMI player , Pioneer 668 or 868 £450 - £750?

    Or a higher quality £1000 player like the Sony 999ES which can be had for about £500 ?

    Was also thinking about the IScan Ultra HD- is this the better option at £1000 and if so how much should I spend just to get a good DVD transport ?

    Any help gratefully received:zonked:
     
  2. buns

    buns
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    If you go for an external processor, my feeling is that the lumagen DVI is going to better the iscan HD.....

    id tend to hold back for one of the newer HDMI players

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  3. RTFM

    RTFM
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    I would go for a Pioneer 868 and use HDMI
     
  4. mikeaitch

    mikeaitch
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    That was fast!!!:D

    Thanks for the quick replies guys, don't know much about the Lumagen, will have to do some genning up. I was a little concerned that the I Scan HD didn't scale HDMI, but didn't kow whether this would make much difference in the end PQ

    Still Eyeing the 868, although I'm a bit of a cynic when it comes to products which are 1st to market ... is the 868 really worth £800 when the scalers will improve other sources too?
     
  5. KraGorn

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    I have an 868 and like it very much, however in the case of the HS20 it can't up-scale to the HS20's native resolution so best you could do is 1280x720 then let the Sony re-scale beyond that. However, it remains digital all the way.

    The iScan HD sounds more promising in that I think it's possible to select any reasonable output resolution so you may well be able to scale to the HS20's panel size .. you'd need to check that the iScan is DVI/HDCP if you plan to feed it from an HDMI player.

    I have a Momitsu V880 with DVI output to my Z2 at 1280x720 and that certainly produces a nice picture, comparable to my HTPC .. however, like the Samsung it couldn't do the Sony's resolution.

    It's hard to know whether it's better to up-scale to the HS20 externally or leave it all to the Sony, meaning feeding an un-scaled signal.

    Edit: to answer you latest question .. that's a very good quetion :), I guess it depends on what other sources you have and how often you use them, £1000 is a lot to spend on an in-frequently used facility.
     
  6. mikeaitch

    mikeaitch
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    I plan to use a DVD recorder, Sky digibox, and possibly Euro 1080 Hi Def satellite recorder, with s-video video player.

    This room is my bolt hole when the missus is watching Heartbeat or Sex in the City..... just bought her a Plasma to do that so I can now spend my hard earned on what used to be her dining room:D
     
  7. KraGorn

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    Well given those several sources an external scaler provides some benfit, not least signal switching .. I'm not sure if the iScan scales its' DVI input, there's mention of a "pass through" which I'm not clear on.

    What receiver are you planning on using? Something like a Denon 3803 for example will switch component and up-convert S-Video, so the switching ability of a scaler would be less significant.
     
  8. mikeaitch

    mikeaitch
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    I was Thinking about the 3805 which has this feature, I think the Iscan passes HDMI untouched and scales everything else although I'm sure later versions will scale HDMI as it becomes more widepread.

    Does using a scaler mean you can buy a relatively cheap mid range dvd and get similar results since none of the dvd's fancy scaling is used?
     
  9. KraGorn

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    I'd have said so, though I've no experience of this type of equipment. Also bear in mind that it's the MPEG decoding and de-interlacing which determine final PQ far more than the scaling operation, since scaling is intrinsically a far simpler process than the other two. So a decent player satisfies the decoding aspect, it's the de-interlacing that remains the main issue as I see it.

    For me, choosing the 868 was based on its' performance in these two key areas, its' scaler was a nice and useful addition but not of itself a main factor.
     
  10. buns

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    I believe the HS20 is able to do something with the 720p signal.... im not sure if it simply turns off some of the panel, but it can do it natively, im not sure where i read that though

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  11. Dutch

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    KraGorn,

    You might find some useful info in this thread for setting a custom resolution up on your Momitsu. Hope this helps.

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=330731

    Steve
     
  12. KraGorn

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    I recall seeing mention of the custom resolution feature in a recent firmware update discussion ... after problems with my KiSS player I've taken to avoiding firmware flashing unless absolutely necessary.
     
  13. Zone

    Zone
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    Does the Momitsu use cadence or flag reading in progressive mode?
     
  14. KraGorn

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    'Fraid I couldn't tell you ... not sure how one would find out.
     
  15. Kramer

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    As can the HS10. Not ideal not using 12% of the pixels/resolution though :(
     
  16. buns

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    ah but it can do it..... that being the major point. With this level of projector, i think you have to accept that kind of thing if you arent going to spend more on the source. i.e. it probably desereves an outboard scaler..... dont any of the dvi players do the full res?

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  17. RTFM

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    12% may be a small price to pay for keeping the signal in the digital domain.
     
  18. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    With a Lumagen DVI you will be able to take either the progressive analogue or the HDMI (interlaced or progressive) and scale or de-interlace and scale to the native res of the projector. If you wanted to keep it all digital you could.

    Even HDMI DVD players will not be equal. Two colourspace conversions are required after the mpeg decoding in an HDMI player(I am led to believe). Then there is the actual de-interlacing (if you want to use the progressive outputs). The Pioneers are flag readers I think. This is good when it works and bad when it doesn't. Cadence detection devices that look at actual picture information tend to be more robust in this respect. So in actual fact something like a Lumagen DVI when fed an interlaced HDMI signal, will probably outperform the internal de-interlacing of many players.
     
  19. mikeaitch

    mikeaitch
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    Thanks for that Gordon

    I'm new to all this scaling/DVI/HDMI stuff so need the help from people in the know.

    Does it make much difference viewing my DVD and other sources in hi def, or am i wasting my time due to the inherent limitations of the various sources?

    Oh, and how much is the Lumagen DVI cost?
     
  20. mikeaitch

    mikeaitch
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    OK, done some digging

    Looks like the Lumagen DVI is the way to go , waiting for some info/cost/availability from Gordon re this, but it should mean that I can use something like the Samsung 935 via DVI and let the Lumagen scale to native res on the Sony, as well as upscaling my other sources.

    Still got this niggling feeling that there might be a better player waiting to be launched soon with DVI out:eek:
    Anybody know what the Sony looks like with 1080i material?
     
  21. Kramer

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    Will the Lugamen output 1366x768 @ 56Hz? Via DVI, that's the only resolution/refresh rate both HS10 & HS20 will accept if wanting to use the full panel resolution.

    Feeding it 1280x720 will result in a windowed picture with, as I've said, 12% of the panels being used.

    BTW, Jeff, the HS10 & HS20 accept 1366x768 via DVI so it is possible to keep the signal digital & utilise the full panel res. Of course, 56Hz is the only refresh rate available so there are slight issues with stutter/panning. Not particularly annoying for me as I've got used to it :D

    The HS10 (& presumably HS20) have very good on board scalers - far better than the Z2s & Panasonics.

    :smoke:
     

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