Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Philip Newton, Sep 20, 2002.
I have a chance to buy this amp second hand 16 months old for £425 in black is this a good price
Is 16 months old a typing error?? If not, then its more likely to be a 3801, bit pricey if thats the case, should be around 300-350 quid.
Whats the difference between the two and it is not a typo, if it is the 3802 is that a good price
More likley to be a 3801 if it's 16months old as Jase says, 6months old then probably a 3802. Not a bad price if it is a 3802
Main difference DPL2
The 3802 has Pro-Logic 2, apart from that they are essentially the same. 425 quid isn´t a bad price (for a 3802) but if its 16 months old it isn´t likely to be a 3802 (its been out less than a year).
The one I saw has DTS Neo, not sure about DPL 2 it does have dts es 6.1 etc is the 3801 not as good sound wise
Soundwise they are both the same, apart from PL2. But if its a 3801 its not worth 425 quid. 300-350 is more like it.
If it is only 3801 sould I go for the Yamaha rx v630rds instead it is slightly more but would be new
IMO the 620 doesn't come close, yes it's a new amp but the Denon on RRP is nearly double that of the Yamaha, and when placed in a HC system shows off the biggest difference which is performance.
£319 is the lowest price I've seen for a 620, put that against a 3801 @ £300/£350 I would go for the Denon. Go have a listen to them both, only you can decide which is best.
It is the 3801 so have reduced my offer to £350 I doubt he will take it as he rejected £400 if I can get him to take £400 and throw in some ixos cables he is selling as well is that a reasonable deal I see bids on ebay are at £360 for another 3801. What do you think?
I wouldn't pay too much attention to what other people are bidding on ebay - I've seen some bid more on there for secondhand than you can buy the same thing for new.
Either some of the bids are fixed, or some people on there are a bit daft!
As for a 16month old Denon 3801 for £400, personally I wouldn't pay a penny over £300 tops.
Ask if it was an official Denon UK amp - if so it should still have some warranty left (I think Denon UK give a 2yr warranty).
If not, you are taking a bit of a gamble IMO - there's likely to be little comeback if the thing blows up after 6 weeks!
Consider that you can buy a brand new 3802 for little more than £600 now, and the new ranges of amps currently being launched seem to have had a spec increase as well as a general price reduction to boot.
The new Denon AVR1803 for instance can be ordered for £300!
What has the 1803 got that would be worth looking at over the 3801 or even the new 3802
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that the AVR1803 will be better than the 3802 (or the 3801 for that matter, although it does sport DPL2 which the 3801 doesn't have).
Just offering a comparison on a value for money basis!
I wouldn't pay £425 for a product which is out of date, probably out of warranty and whose better specced replacement is available brand new for around £600 or so.
Fair enough, the guy probably paid £850 for it when it was new (I think that was the RRP for the 3801), so he probably thinks half price is fair, but prices have come down since then while the spec has gone up. The 3802 is itself due for replacement in a few months BTW.
But it's just my view - you might disagree and that's fine, no problem with that!
No No you are right. I have since realised that it is way too much money I am now looking at the 2802 le concepts is selling for 469 is this the one you mean or is this a newer one etc. I have another thread asking if this is better than the yammy 630 any opinions here or in the other thread please. By the way Mike thanks for that I could have made a big mistake
To be honest, there are quite a few amps around the £400 mark which may suit you.
Of those I've heard (which isn't any of the new models though), for the most part I don't think there's a huge amount of difference overall between any of them. It's mostly a slight presenation difference, some prefer one while others go for the other.
Fair enough, the Sony's can be a bit forward and "in yer face" so to speak - and I think this can let them down a bit for music (not hugely though), but on the other hand it seems to make them sound that bit more dynamic for movies.
Yamaha are always worth a look too, and you shouldn't dimiss Marantz either. Denon?, well they are certainly up there although I've always felt they were a little overpriced compared to their peers - however the AVR1803 looks like it might change that opinion (not heard it though), and the 2802 looks competitive now on the street (I thought it was overpriced when it came out).
At the end of the day, it'll come down to which has the right blend of features, performance and price.
Consider what you'll be using it for (music/movies/both), the type of speakers you'll be matching to it (ie if the receiver is a little "bright", don't pick bright speakers too), what kit you want to connect to it (no use buying an amp which doesn't have all the necessary connectors), what unique features it has that you will actually use (don't be fooled by gimmicky type stuff like DSP modes (unless you like that sort of thing) but some can be useful - things like adjustable sub xover, input naming (Sony's have this AFAIK- very neat especially if you have anyone technically challenged in the house), dual speaker sets etc etc.
Basically anything which matters to you (regardless of whether I or anybody else would pay it a second thought)
I'd do the research and compile a list of those models which fit all your criteria of features, performance and price, and then go and buy the one you think sounds the best!
Models I'd probably look at, at around £400 or less:
Denon AVR1803 (poss the 2802 too)
(some of these aren't available yet though - and I have to confess I haven't heard any of them yet (apart from the 2802), so do consider that too)
On paper the Kenwood seems to offer a very complete package for the money - if it sounds good too......... but check it does everything you want first if considering it!
If one of those doesn't suit - perhaps you need to be looking higher up
Thanks for that Mike. Very informative. I think I will look at the Yamy 630 the Denon 2802 and may look at Marantz. I want 6.1 discrete for starters and component vid would be nice. I Have Heard that the Yamy does not have these. I saw another thread debating this. What I will do is give them both a listen. I am using Mission Cinema 6 pack. I am not sure if they are considered bright speakers or not, The amp I use at the moment can't be doing them justice. Sony 475 nice start but its got to go
Cor blimey Phil, you've got that many threads open, it's hard to keep up!!
Anyway, given your speaker setup, in all honesty I think I'd only go for the 2802 if you actually needed any of the extra features it has (a few connections mainly it seems). Otherwise, I think I might save £150, and go for the new AVR1803 (it seems to lose very little really to the 2802, preouts for all channels is one (which are of little use anyway unless you intend to use external power amps at some point). The 2802 has a touch more power too, but you'll find both will be more than powerful enough, with some ease (unless you listen at insane levels of course - but then your speakers won't really handle that either )
Go to the Denon website (www.denon.co.uk ), and go to the news section, followed by Consumer Product News.
In their you'll find a link to the new AVR1803 info, including a PDF product glossy. Download that, and the 2802s PDF from the Products section and see what you think.
BTW - don't know if this is of any interest, but if you are going to a 6.1/7.1 setup, and already have a Mission 6pack, then QED still list the Mission 70 speaker on their site at £82 a pair.
Denon also do some small speakers, which are made by Mission for them - the SCM50. While the cabinets aren't the same (traditional wood with beech finish), I'm pretty sure the drivers are - in fact they look like Mission 70s in disguise to me .
Denon say the crossover is new, but how different it is from he Mission70, I don't know) Unbeatable have these for £62 a pair!
There's also the SCM10, which appear to use the same drivers but in a slightly larger box (Richer's have these on their website for £50, but as usual don't seem to have any stock - may be worth a call though if you were interested).
If you can't get hold of the Mission 70 speakers, the Denons may well be the next best best thing (in terms of a match to what you already have)
Sorry about all the threads it just got that way I will tame it down, however I am getting closer to making a desicion. Although I have not heard any yet I think I like the sound of the Denon over the Yammy. The next thread i was going to start was in relation to the speakers but you have done that for me now. I thank you for that. I will check out the new denon speakers they sound cool and at £65 a pair I can't go wrong. I spoke to Sevenoakes and they said the 2802 is the one to go for but I guess they want more money. I will download the spec. Thanks again
Separate names with a comma.