Charger questions? smart/fast/slow/dumb?

ufo550

Well-known Member
Are you sure he hadn't been playing with ludicrous mode a little too much?
Some Teslas can be "unlocked" to go much faster from a standing start at the expense of the life time of the battery pack. The videos I remember seeing showed the car warned you about that when engaging so I can see how you could hold the driver responsible.
The story was he just used a fast charger; #59 the sales guy I spoke to said that happened with the older technology.
 

Desmo

Distinguished Member
Whilst on the course, they were told about a guy who fast charged his Tesla more often than not. However when his lease ended, and return the car, he was told the car had been fast charged too often, and the batteries were knackered and had to be replaced at his cost.
Sounds like utter drivel to me. Plenty of cars live on Superchargers and I've never heard of anybody ever being penalised from it. If anything, Tesla would be getting battery status as feedback and are far more likely to slow the charge rates of cars seeing large amounts of degradation.
 

ufo550

Well-known Member
Sounds like utter drivel to me. Plenty of cars live on Superchargers and I've never heard of anybody ever being penalised from it. If anything, Tesla would be getting battery status as feedback and are far more likely to slow the charge rates of cars seeing large amounts of degradation.
If you read my posts, that apparently was true of the very earlier technologies, but not true in recent years.
 

Thatsnotmynaim

Distinguished Member
If you read my posts, that apparently was true of the very earlier technologies, but not true in recent years.
In the UK I thought most manufacturers gave an 8 year 100/150k battery warranty, meaning if the retained battery degraded below 70% then they were liable to restore the battery performance above this level, meaning it's not the owners resposibility or fault if they do degrade.

 

ufo550

Well-known Member
In the UK I thought most manufacturers gave an 8 year 100/150k battery warranty, meaning if the retained battery degraded below 70% then they were liable to restore the battery performance above this level, meaning it's not the owners resposibility or fault if they do degrade.

Wished I never mentioned it now.
 

Thatsnotmynaim

Distinguished Member
Wished I never mentioned it now.
It's an interesting point, just not sure if it's exagerated somewhat (like with many EV challenges) or if in fact it's 100% true.
Many companies are anti EV as it may hit their revenue streams and as such there's much fake news which is designed to put people off. Not saying your point was fake or dismissing it at all, I just find it hard to understand given warranties etc, although having said that many lease companies will take any opportunity to charge the user for anything...
 

Desmo

Distinguished Member
If you read my posts, that apparently was true of the very earlier technologies, but not true in recent years.
There was some capping of charge rates of certain earlier cars by Tesla, just search for Chargegate and you'll find information about it. Either way, I just don't believe that a lease company made somebody pay for a manufacturers issue with a battery.
Wished I never mentioned it now.
I know what you mean. Sometimes people pick up on things in an unintended way and it wasn't worth the bother mentioning it. It can be annoying and now I'm the one doing the picking up on it :(

Was nothing personal...but it just sounds like an urban myth that has spread as fact.
 

outoftheknow

Moderator
Since the topic isn't specifically pure EV - as mentioned earlier PHEVs can indicate the best charger for you even if you have a full blown EV. My 2021 Outlander has about 11kW usable I think and here our GPOs are 10A but the charger is limited to 8A. I can see the power draw on my Enphase Envoy consumption monitor and it is indeed about 1.9kW. A full charge (including ramping down at high SOC etc) is 7.5 hours. A bit like range anxiety, many of my journeys are within the EV only range of the full battery. So far I haven't bothered looking at using the other socket for Chamedo public chargers - on long journeys I'll just let it do it's thing in hybrid/all engine modes most likely. No gain for me getting a home charger since I charge during the day when the solar is producing and limiting to 8A means I am less likely to draw from the grid when a cloud comes across.

My journeys and power needs would be "identical" with a pure EV. For long journeys I would use public charging. Starting at full or 25% on the short journeys makes no difference on those and on a long journey it increases the cost of charging if you start at 25%. Even if I had gone full EV this time, I wasn't planning a home charger. Even charging overnight would give me enough for all my usual (short) journeys every day. On a flat rate for electricity the cost is the same leaving it charging whenever it is at home. Using all home charging will still cost one quarter compared to my Skoda Superb 2.0TSI on these normal journeys. I can reduce costs for no capital outlay by charging on an off-peak rate (if I want to get one), or from solar whenever I can. The reductions are in real terms tiny. Any faffing with expensive home chargers will not save me thousands a year - far from it.

Sure access to cheap rates etc is attractive - I prefer to look analytically at the whole picture though and for my use the granny charger is fine. YMMV.
 

AMc

Distinguished Member
Since the topic isn't specifically pure EV - as mentioned earlier PHEVs can indicate the best charger

Sounds like we've come to similar conclusions.

My Golf GTE allows me to adjust the charge rate - I've set it at 10A, one notch below it's top limit as I don't see any reason to stress the battery or the connection. Charging at that rate makes the plug barely warm to the touch and the charger body is room temperature.
On the 3 pin granny charger it takes 3h 15m to fully recharge the battery.
I can easily slot that into the economy 7 hours or I can do it on peak rates and I'm still saving compared to using petrol for the same full electric journey.

On a 200 mile trip starting with a fully charged battery the reported fuel consumption was around 65mpg (IIRC).
If I start with the battery depleted so using standard hybrid modes I'm getting a reported 55mpg or so on similar long, fast runs with a fully loaded car. Not driving with any particular attention to economy.

The car's long term report suggests around 53mpg which chimes with my theory that the first 60K miles were done by a company car driver who seldom plugged in and did a lot of motorway mileage.

When/if we get our outbuilding converted and the drive rearranged I will probably get a faster charger installed. I imagine it will be feature that will attract people who can see there's not much public charging in rural Norfolk.
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
Sounds like we've come to similar conclusions.

My Golf GTE allows me to adjust the charge rate - I've set it at 10A, one notch below it's top limit as I don't see any reason to stress the battery or the connection. Charging at that rate makes the plug barely warm to the touch and the charger body is room temperature.
On the 3 pin granny charger it takes 3h 15m to fully recharge the battery.
I can easily slot that into the economy 7 hours or I can do it on peak rates and I'm still saving compared to using petrol for the same full electric journey.

On a 200 mile trip starting with a fully charged battery the reported fuel consumption was around 65mpg (IIRC).
If I start with the battery depleted so using standard hybrid modes I'm getting a reported 55mpg or so on similar long, fast runs with a fully loaded car. Not driving with any particular attention to economy.

The car's long term report suggests around 53mpg which chimes with my theory that the first 60K miles were done by a company car driver who seldom plugged in and did a lot of motorway mileage.

When/if we get our outbuilding converted and the drive rearranged I will probably get a faster charger installed. I imagine it will be feature that will attract people who can see there's not much public charging in rural Norfolk.
Interestingly, the long term MPG on my Golf GTD is 60MPG, so I would estimate that based on the current price of diesel and factoring in the higher purchase or lease cost of the GTE, they are pretty much the same cost to run over 3 years.
 

AMc

Distinguished Member
Interestingly, the long term MPG on my Golf GTD is 60MPG, so I would estimate that based on the current price of diesel and factoring in the higher purchase or lease cost of the GTE, they are pretty much the same cost to run over 3 years.

I don't know the new/lease prices as I bought 3yr old used.
A quick scan on Autotrader on 2018 cars indicates a GTD with around 60K would be between £17-20K.
I paid £16,400 but I think I got a bit of a bargain as there were older GTE's with lower mileage for more money when I was looking. If this car hadn't been such a good price or the trade in had been meaner, I would probably still be running my old MkV GTi.

I didn't look at the GTD as diesel really doesn't suit my driving profile of mostly short journeys with the odd long run. I did consider a Mk7 GTi but not very seriously.

The crucial difference in economy would be plugging in ...or not ;)
The long term average mpg consumption has been climbing since I bought the car as I'm plugging in at home whenever it's depleted. I'm mostly doing short runs on pure electric or electric with a couple of miles of petrol.

Honest John suggests 53mpg is pretty low for a GTE - average is 73mpg but then there are not many results to go from.

AIUI there were car tax advantages to leasing plugin hybrids that meant a lot of them were never plugged in and treated at best as regular hybrids.
 
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noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
I don't know the new/lease prices as I bought 3yr old used.
A quick scan on Autotrader on 2018 cars indicates a GTD with around 60K would be between £17-20K.
I paid £16,400 but I think I got a bit of a bargain as there were older GTE's with lower mileage for more money when I was looking. If this car hadn't been such a good price or the trade in had been meaner, I would probably still be running my old MkV GTi.

I didn't look at the GTD as diesel really doesn't suit my driving profile of mostly short journeys with the odd long run. I did consider a Mk7 GTi but not very seriously.

The crucial difference in economy would be plugging in ...or not ;)
The long term average mpg consumption has been climbing since I bought the car as I'm plugging in at home whenever it's depleted. I'm mostly doing short runs on pure electric or electric with a couple of miles of petrol.

Honest John suggests 53mpg is pretty low for a GTE - average is 73mpg but then there are not many results to go from.

AIUI there were car tax advantages to leasing plugin hybrids that meant a lot of them were never plugged in and treated at best as regular hybrids.
It does sound like you are the perfect customer for a GTE. If we had charging facilities at work, I think I would have got one, but neither of our main sites - nor the majority of customer sites that I visit have charging points and I'd be running on ICE for a large percentage of journeys. As an aside, I can claim for fuel to customer sites, but not charging my car up at home, so a full EV would just be shooting myself in the foot.

The tax rules really need to catch up with the reality of using EVs for business purposes!
 

AMc

Distinguished Member
As an aside, I can claim for fuel to customer sites, but not charging my car up at home, so a full EV would just be shooting myself in the foot.

The tax rules really need to catch up with the reality of using EVs for business purposes!

I wish the GTE had another 5-10 miles range and I wouldn't be using fuel at all most of the time.
I suspect in winter it will start the engine before I get home, unless I strike lucky and get to use the free charging at one of the Norwich car parks to top up while I'm there.

That really is a glaring hole in the way the tax works. The best place to charge cars is slowly, overnight, at home where the load is distributed geographically and manageable because the commercial and domestic load isn't in use. But who is going to voluntarily pay for their employer's mileage when they can conveniently refuel at the employer's expense, on their time and make no change to their habits at all?

On our Northern road trip the lack of charging in hotel and public car parks was really stark. Only one point I could have used at the Sheffield Novotel - otherwise I'd have had to detour and wait.
Practical in a fast charging full EV, pointless and expensive in my GTE.
 

outoftheknow

Moderator
The Outlander has used 2litres/100km in doing 370km journeys mostly in range of the full battery. That’s about 148mpg. On the government cycle here it claims 1.9l/100km for urban so I’m happy with that…..
 
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leedebs

Well-known Member
PHEV suits me as well, not put much fuel in at all, working on site atm and its 20.8miles from home. I manage to get there and back on a full charge at the moment, suspect as we get to winter weather that will not be possible but really pleased with the range in my Ioniq in both ev and hybrid modes. Granny charger (takes around 4 hours) used at home or at parents, also used at my sons when we traveled there last week. Trip to North Wales I averaged 76mpg, charged at home & also when we arrived so that helped the overall mpg.
 

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