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Channel levels Denon 3802 + Mission 780/783

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Raj, Nov 27, 2001.

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  1. Raj

    Raj
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    Hi all,

    I've been reading these forums for about 6 months and have finally gone out and bought the following:

    Denon 2800 DVD
    Denon 3802 AMP
    Toshiba 36ZP18B (yes, know the problems, but generally happy)
    Mission 783 Fronts
    Mission 780 Surrounds
    Mission 780 Surround Backs
    Rel Q150E Subwoofer

    Set it all up last weekend, never done so much reading in my life :eek: and managed to get it all working.

    Now have I have some basic questions for more expirenced AV addicts.

    I've been through all the 3802 setup routines and think I've set it all up correctly.

    I played some music CD's on it and was generally impressed with the sound (5Ch/7Ch and Pro Logic II modes), however with movies it was a different story.

    I tried several DD 5.1 DVD's and generally found that I could not generally hear much from the rear channels even during high energy scenes. I then decided to investgate my channel levels.

    I discovered that my 783 are 6 Ohms, 90db Sens. whereas my 4 rear 780's are 8 ohms, 87db Sens.

    Main question is does this ohm and sensitivity difference need to be taken into account when setting the different channel levels ?, if so, by how much, or should I just adjust the levels till I am happy with the sound ?

    Second question, do folks generally listen in pure DD 5.1/DTS modes or do they prefer some whacky DSP mode with the 3802?

    Final question, regarding Tone control on the 3802, I prefer to listen with Tone Defeat on, but with this mode the bass from the 783 seem to be non-existence, and always find I need to adjust the bass up on most modes, how do other people setup their 3802 for this ?

    Sorry, if the questions seem crazy, but I need to know the best way to setup the 3802.

    Raj
     
  2. robocook

    robocook
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    Not a 3802 owner but a 3801 owner and not a 78 owner but 77 owner but ... your surround sound might be wrong because you haven't told the amp the relative distances of all the speakers which has a major effect with delay.

    Not sure if you can set-up delays and levels per surround mode, can't remember, don't think so but might be an idea.


    After setting the distance from the speakers to where you're sitting (bang centre ideally in the sweet spot) then you can balance the relative speaker levels by ear or with an SPL meter if you have one (most don't).

    BTW: the 780s will need more power (high volume setting) to get same level as the 783s... but that depends how close you are.


    Also if your 783s are lacking bass it might be that you've set your front speakers to "small" rather than "loud" so the amp is routing all bass to the sub - mind you if you are lacking bass with the REL handling bass!!!

    Also if your 783s anything like my 774 room positioning is vital to get the bass you want, without killing the treble, do not believe the Mission manual on positioning blindly - experiment. Sounds stupid but speaker cables seemed critical [in my system] here as well.


    At the end of the day the "text box" settings for this speaker and that level and tone control and whatever else don't matter; if it sounds good to you sit back and enjoy.

    Although for the cost of your system I think I'd expect the dealer to come round and do the job for you into the price - and wash a few windows and iron some shirts into the bargain.
     
  3. Raj

    Raj
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    Just to clarify:

    - Have setup the distance to each speaker
    - You can only setup delays at system level rather than for each mode
    - Front speakers are set to "Large" and all others to "Small"
    - Fronts are wired using QED Silver Ann. (bi-wired)

    The 783 have side firing subs, and I have them positioned them about 8 feet apart, with the subs firing out. This the only way otherwise they would be firing against a pillar wall or furniture.

    I tested the bass of the 783 with the Subwoofer off and normal stereo mode, still lacking in bass until I turned the bass up using tone control. With the sub-woofer it is fine, but I would have expected the 783 to still pump out a bit more bass !

    Thanks,

    Raj
     
  4. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    I bought a Maplins spl meter for £50 and set my speaker levels up.It made quite a difference to the speakers too, as they were all at different levels. Have you played with the speaker level settings yet?

    When you say 'rear channels' do you mean the side and back rears, or just the back rears?

    Try playing the Matrix scene where Neo dodges to the bullets. You should hear the rear speakers clearly as the bullets go behind him.

    Also try the Lock Stock sequence where the golf ball goes all round the room. If the levels are OK, the rear speakers should noticably come to life.

    My front speakers also go down to 38hz (front firing 15")woofers, so I have them set to large, and all others to small. I have the sub (Rel Q200E) set to on as well. Crossover is set to 80hz on the 3802, and the Rel to about 40hz.

    The bass seems fine without adjusting anything, but you may have some things set too set too low, hence the need for the spl meter. However, as RoboCook says - it's down to how you like your system to sound that counts, so if you like the rears to be more 'in your face' then increase the rears db settings.

    Room acoustics such as furniture, not being near a wall, and thin plasterboard walls may be reducing your bass. Try swapping the front speakers to see if that makes any difference.

    HTH

    Gary
     
  5. Paul D

    Paul D
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    Try the beach landing scene from "Saving private Ryan".
    If your rears don't sound like there going to "pop" with that film, then you do have problems.
     
  6. Raj

    Raj
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    Thanks guys, I think I need to invest in an spl meter.

    I was playing around last night and noticed that with some of the DSP modes like WideScreen and Matrix and even DPL II, all rears were much more lively. It is only with true DD 5.1 that they seem very quite and tame. Perhaps I just need to adjust the levels for individual modes.

    Another quick question on the 3802, is there a quick way to change from Pro-Logic II Music <-> Pro-Logic II Cinema other than having to go through Surround Parameters each time ?

    Raj
     

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