Champions League ITV picture quality

Discussion in 'Satellite TV, Sky TV & FreeSat' started by AntBanks, Mar 8, 2006.

  1. AntBanks

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    This has probably been brought up before about ITV, but last nights Barcelona v Chelsea champions league match was the worst quality broadcast i have seen so far. The players were just coloured blobs and why do itv broadcast in 4.3 ratio with alot of there football broadcasts.

    Something else, ever since i've had my Sharp LCD the evening and nightly news looks awful. very blurred. other channels look fine. and itv looks fine on all my other tv's which are CRT. i've always hated itv for their quality in broadcasts.

    I don't really watch much of their news coverage but i just can't see why its such bad picture quality. is it to do with the bandwidth they are using? because if it is, its lower than everyone elses.

    I can't wait for HD and Sky Sports. But i suppose i'll be waiting forever for ITV HD

    Ant
     
  2. blakey1

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    I think its a problem with HD screens. Ive got to admit that it wasnt too bad on my Sharp P50e. I stretched the picture chainging to 4:3 in the settings of my Sky+ box.

    Ive seen worse on Sky the liverpool V Man City game on the day of the Carling cup final was worse in my opinion. The Carling Cup was amazing though.

    I agree that I cant see ITV going HD in the near future but Premiership football should look pretty good.

    As for PQ I think BBC via Sky is worse. All broadcaster use the lowest bitrate they can get away with. Sky's are a bit higher as they are pay broadcasters but the bitrates used are low mainly because the majority of viewers view on a CRT which can handle low bitrates quite well.

    As more and more people buy Flat Panels some broadcaster may increase bitrates if enough people start to complain. I would not hold your breath though.
     
  3. AntBanks

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    yeah i think ITV will probably lag behind everyone else, they always come accross as being so amateur compared to other broadcasters. and also it looks like they try too hard sometimes to compete with Sky in their football broadcasting.

    Still recovering from the downfall of ITV Digital:D
     
  4. Fusewire

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    Cascade

    Sorry to be the one to have to tell you mate but the poor picture quality on your LCD is probobaly as much down to the screen as much as the quality of the broadcast, like you say, it looks ok on your other screens which are CRT's.

    While they are great for PC use, the current crop of LCD's do stuggle with complex moving images, especially fast moving ones like what you get when watching football, rugby etc, it just an inherant flaw of the technology.
     
  5. parky43007

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    I don't think it is Cascade's LCD screen.
    I live in Spain and on the edge of the Sky footprint. I have as SD panny plasma. Last night the Champions league coverage from ITV froze up totally, just after starting. As soon as it finished - picture returned.
     
  6. dalespitfire

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    Is this not down to the fact they are using a Spanish feed rather than their own broadcast?
     
  7. thejudge

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    I watch ITV on sky through a CRT widescreen TV. I also find that ITV broadcast in 4:3 even though the EPG says its Widescreen. The boxing coverage is the same as the football.

    I've tried all permutations of settings on the sky box and my tv. If you put the sky box into 4:3L, theoretically you should get the full broadcast picture with the black lines top and bottom on a widescreen tv but with ITV the coverage overlays for sporting events are missing or part missing. It's particulary annoying for the boxing as it cuts off the boxers heads! Sort it out ITV!!!
     
  8. AntBanks

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  9. ParmMann

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    Thats it.
     
  10. thejudge

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    If this was the case the boxing coverage should be ok as ITV have their own broadcast cameras and equipment there. Also Sky Sports, in my experience, always have their pictures formatted correctly whichever country they are receiving a feed from.

    I'm sure UEFA have set out the requirements for the recording standard for archiving purposes.
     
  11. Clatter

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    If the picture looks fine on all your other TV's, does this not suggest the problem is with the TV not the transmission?
     
  12. Starburst

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    The issue is that most broadcasters provide a service that is suited to average sized CRT's and while a flat panel may have issues with a channel that looks fine on a CRT the problem is in part with the broadcaster.
    Of course there is little incentive for an ad driven broadcaster to buy more bandwidth if it's going to be wasted on the majority of displays, for PAY broadcasters (and the BBC) High Def will cater to those with better or at least more demanding displays.
     
  13. Stackers

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    You're way off the mark there mate! Not all LCD TV's have these problems! Maybe you've been unlucky but most modern LCD's are fine!

    As for the 4:3 aspect ratio, you tend to find this when football matches are filmed abroad! Don't believe me? Watch out for the next home CL matches on ITV and you'll see that they are in Widescreen. Sky show foreign matches in widescreen but i'm not sure if they are just filling the screen or not.
     
  14. AntBanks

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    No, because if you read what i said, i mention that other channels are fine. sky news bbc news, except for bbc london which can be a bit ropey. its just ITV
     
  15. colonel_smith

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    I thought the picture was fine for the Barca game apart from the 4:3 ratio..If anything it was a better quality than Sky`s La Liga coverage..
    Could the fact players look like blobs on the screen have something to do with the camera being about half a mile in the air..The Camp Nou is a massive stadium and the camera position is pretty high..
     
  16. AVdavid

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    I agree the picture quality was poor and it was the Spanish feed, surely in Spain they must have widescreen and presumably be gearing up for some form of HD as well if not I wouldn't bother emigrating to Spain
    Dave
     
  17. xavster

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    I think a lot of the problems with LCD TVs come from the poor quality de-interlacing they do. Films and documentarys and nature progs shot in film look better because there is no movement between each 50hz field - much easier to de-interlace.
    Anything from video or live will look worse because the set struggles to cope with movement between fields when de-interlacing.

    ITV news is shot 4:3, then converted into a 14:9 frame (hence some scaling of the image takes place). When this is scaled again to fit the res of the screen (coupled with dodgy de-interlacing) you get problems with the pic.
    Just my thoughts!
     
  18. Fusewire

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    I whole heartidly agree - I have found football and LCD not to be a match made in heaven (I personally think there are better technologies available for general TV viewing too.):eek: , trouble is because of the amounts of money spent on them people don't like to admit that there can be flaws with there expensive screen, truth is all screens - plasma / LCD / DLP / CRT all have inherant flaws (As well as their strengths)you just have to pick the one that best suits your needs :smashin:
     
  19. antfish77

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    the spanish broadcasts are in 4:3 format. Skys la liga broadcasts are also exactly the same. Champions league final last year was in Turkey but was broadcast in 16:9 because Sky were awarded the right to provide coverage. Sky are very well respected with regard to their output of sport coverage across the whole of Europe.

    If you are watching a spanish game filmed by spanish TV it will be in 4:3 format. Simply as that. Put your sky box into 4:3 letterbox format if you are worried you are not getting to use the sides of your screen! However this will leave the problem of not then being able to use the top and bottom of it!

    :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
     
  20. bulldoze

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    I was also shocked at the poor quality of the Chelsea Barcelona match it ruined the game for me, the Arsenal Real Madrid game the next day on SKY SPORTS 1 was much much better.

    I actually prefer watching footie on my LCD it seems to shine with a good feed.
     
  21. AntBanks

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    i agree that the Arsenal and Real Madrid game looked so much better than ITV's Chelsea game, Someone above mentioned LCD doesn't handle football very well, but Sky's football coverage looks very good on my LCD.

    As for better technology, Sony can't think so, they're fazing out Plasma TV's and just manufacturing LCD,CRT and projectors according to AV Forums Podcast
     
  22. Fusewire

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    Just about anything will shine with a good feed (quality in = quality out), but it takes a true quality panel/screen to turn average broadcasts into nice shiney quality viewing. This is the truth of the whole matter, why blame the quality of the broadcast for the shortcomings of LCD display technology.

    The only people who defend LCD for TV veiwing are those who have spent large amounts of money on the things, anyone else will tell you that they are just not up to it when it come to TV viewing - sorry guys but these screens / panels are just not up to the job - by all means use them for your PC or plug a PS2 / Xbox360 into them, then they will look stunning but for heavens sake get real, football is always going to look a little on the ropey side.
     
  23. stewartpaterson

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    The rangers game was the best quality, and in widescreen :), i've ever seen on ITV. I actually laughed when i flicked it over and see the 4:3 Barca game. Unwatchable IMO
     
  24. Fusewire

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    Oh come on, Sony just want to make money and it is a well established fact that LCD is far more cost effective than plasma to manufacture, CRT has run its course and many don't have a big enough house for a projector, they are not going down the LCD route because it's a better technology !!! it's purely because its cheaper to make and thus it is more profitable for THEM.
     
  25. blakey1

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    I have a LCD and the picture look pretty good for sport most of the time. Had my friend round the other day and he was commenting on how good the picture looked on ITV and SKY with regards the Champions league.

    Difference is mine is the P50E only 960x540 and therefore does no scaling and due to the lower amounts of pixels is more forgiving on poorer feed.

    For me HD ready sets whether LCD's or Plasmas will always give a poor SD picture due to the low bitrates broadcasters use.

    Even HD pictures will be poor at low bitrates and thats why the likes of SKy will be broadcasting at the equiv of 15-18mbps for HD compared to between 4-5mbps for SD.

    To be honest Ive never seen a HD ready set which gives a good SD picture and that includes Plasmas.

    I agree that most will say their HD ready set is great as when you have spent the amount some have you will never be able to say its not. They will be great for HD but SD is always going to look poor on them apart from the highest bit rate channels like Sky Sports, movies etc.
     
  26. av2diefor

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    Utter rubbish.

    I have a 42phd8 and a 506 xde and both are stunning on nearly all feeds.

    Freeview is faultless on both screens and Sky also.

    Just to show i'm not biased i have a sharp P50e in my daughters bedroom, and that's where it stays i'm pleased to say.............
     
  27. Stackers

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    Completely disagree! It's almost like i'm reading a post from 5 years ago!

    Out of interest what do you use?
     
  28. blakey1

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    Utter rubbish in your opinion of course:)

    I did not know that the PHD8 was a HD ready screen I thought it was a SD one.

    When I was looking for a Panel I found that the Panny PE50 SD Plasma gave a better SD picture and the HD ready screens and so did the Sharp p50e of HD ready LCD's.

    I know a few people with HD ready LCD's, Plasmas and DLP's and most will say that the SD SHarp and the SD PWD6 Plasma my parents own give a better picture than the HD sets.

    Of course its only a personal opinion and I sure that there are many who will disagree and agree with the comments.

    In the US there's the same debate but most HD ready set owners are happy to simply argue about with HD is better on their HD ready set and accept that SD looks better on a SD set.

    For me the LCD V Plasma thing is so:boring: There are those who pefer plasmas and those who like LCD's. I read many a plasma owner moaning about SD on their Plasmas so I cant believe that its only LCD owners who are not happy with some low bitrate channels.

    if the above was the case then I dont think there would be such a desperation and frenzy on the forum for SKy HD. It would not surprise me if some are not soon camping outside Sky HQ and refusing to leave until they get their Sky HD box:)
     
  29. av2diefor

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    Not really an opinion, more of a fact.

    Like i say i have a 42phd8, 506 xde sharp pe50, panasonic 37pv500 and just bought a sansung le32 b51 lcd.

    Hardly a fanboy then.

    The hd plasma's wipe the floor with the lcd with the pioneer giving the most pleasing pq.

    An SD PW8 is impressive, it just cant grab that extra detail for me when fed a good feed, still very impressive though.

    I personally dont suffer from any problems with low bitrates on 99% of any broadcasts.

    If your'e happy with what you have thats great, but unless you have an HD panel you cant really comment can you?Its one thing to have a quick demo at a retailers or a mates than actually living with them.........
     
  30. Fusewire

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    Your free to disagree, but it won't change the truth - living in denial is pointless. Why is it like reading a post from 5 years ago ??

    I have a 42" PWD8 Plasma a 32" CRT and a 19" LCD they all have their stengths and all have their shortcomings.....

    The Plasma - Pretty much stunning at everything (Movies / Football etc)except when I plug the PC into it, connected to the PC the image is soft and a bit fuzzy and not good at all.

    The CRT - pretty good at most things although not as good a picture as the plasma IMO but I'm not being totally fair there as the CRT is only a Goodmans, serves mainly for the kids (as they are not allowed anywhere near the plasma) and it stands up very well to all the abuse they give it (spreading yogurt and snot on the screen, leaving DVDs on pause for ages various kids channels logos burning into it for hours on end etc etc).

    The LCD - Brilliant for playing games on the PC and general PC use, can't fault it looks superb, but put any kind of video/TV feed into it and it is hopeless, I use it only as a last resort when none of the above are available for use, thankfully that is not often. I thought I might just have a crap one so I went round to my mates who is always going on about how good his LCD is, although its better then mine he still suffers with the same problems the OP stated and it doesn't come close even to my CRT, as mentioned earlier I don't think he can come to terms with the fact that he spent £1500 on his screen and the football looks crap but I hope he will get over it one day so he can begin his recovery :rotfl: :rotfl:

    Horses for courses me thinks - no good blaming the broadcasters for a screen shortcomings...:smashin:

    Its a bit like the fat man who blames god for making him too short, "thats why I'm overweight" he says when the truth is he eats and drinks too much - that why he's fat.

    It's always easier to blame someone else isn't it.
     

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