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CES 2018 News: Samsung demo 8K, HDR10+ and Micro LED & Comments

raymondo77

Distinguished Member
Hi Steve, is there any word on what sizes the flagship will be available in, and when they're planning to launch it?
 
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Steve Withers

Reviewer
Hi Steve, is there any word on what sizes the flagship will be available in, and when they're planning to launch it?
I've heard rumours of big screen sizes, so 65, 75 and 85 inches, but no mention of dates.
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
So in essence MLED is still a longs way off and that 8K beast is going to be out of many / all consumers price range and then some this year . That said can't wait to see it in the flesh as must be the highest spec display out this year .
 

raymondo77

Distinguished Member

BRAKKUS1

Distinguished Member
'Surprise surprise, it's Cilla er'

As if MLED was coming anytime soon, nice stunt by Sammy though.

We can all think about their 2017 QLED range again :rotfl:
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
Is it thousands or hundreds zones?
10,000 apparently :eek:. Should blast the ZD9 apart , especially with 4000nit peak brightness on HDR . Gonna cost arm n a leg though, and then some but at least it is a a real upgrade on the tech front rather than the miniscule ( insert yawn here ) uptick from most .
 

george1976

Active Member
'Surprise surprise, it's Cilla er'

As if MLED was coming anytime soon, nice stunt by Sammy though.

We can all think about their 2017 QLED range again :rotfl:
QLED was a nasty marketing stunt, but this Mled better deliver in a few years for the sake of competition, until then a B7 looks like a nice set to have:)
 

MEGATAMA

Active Member
The same infographic claimed that the technology could reach 4000 nits peak brightness and ”0.0015 nits black”. The 85-inch in display appeared to reach around 2000 nits while maintaining depth in black. We asked Samsung how this is possible and were told that the backlight has ”thousands” of addressable element. The number of zones was later clarified to be in the ”hundreds”. Our best guess is that there are indeed thousands of micro-LEDs in action but ”only” hundreds of addressable local dimming zones.
 

BRAKKUS1

Distinguished Member
QLED was a nasty marketing stunt, but this Mled better deliver in a few years for the sake of competition, until then a B7 looks like a nice set to have:)
Just puts me off Sammy even more! Made me laugh that they gave the 8k MLED's model numbers though :rotfl:

B7 is indeed a beautiful display :)
 

raymondo77

Distinguished Member
The same infographic claimed that the technology could reach 4000 nits peak brightness and ”0.0015 nits black”. The 85-inch in display appeared to reach around 2000 nits while maintaining depth in black. We asked Samsung how this is possible and were told that the backlight has ”thousands” of addressable element. The number of zones was later clarified to be in the ”hundreds”. Our best guess is that there are indeed thousands of micro-LEDs in action but ”only” hundreds of addressable local dimming zones.
That's interesting, and the first time I've seen anyone say that. If true I've already lost interest in it.
 

mark800

Distinguished Member
After the QLED marketing fiasco and reading the nonsense written by Samsung about QLED versus OLED, I'm not sure that I'll ever believe anything Samsung claims again.

Firstly, this Micro LED. Samsung seem to have suffered by not providing OLED, and now seem to be trying to tempt people with Micro LED and the idea that it is a 'game changer' but they would wouldn't they if they haven't got anything to compete effectively with OLED in the premium end of the market. Timescales seem vague at best, which suggests Samsung hasn't really got any realistic answer to OLED for the foreseeable future.

"Micro LED can theoretically deliver deep blacks, a peak brightness of 10,000nits and the full Rec.2020 colour gamut. OLED currently offers the best picture quality but is unlikely to ever deliver a peak brightness of more than 1,000nits. It also has possible image retention, screen burn and lifespan issues, none of which would affect a Micro LED screen."

It is easy to suggest that some future technology compares perfectly with an existing technology. Do you remember the early promise of OLED and what was written about what it could achieve? We still don't know if Micro LED comes with its own compromises when (or if) it eventually appears commercially. Based on its record, you can be sure that Samsung wouldn't admit any.

In terms of the new 8k panel, it seems a bit crazy to me. In terms of resolution, content typically does not tax the full resolution of a 4k display, even if the human eye is able to discern this resolution at typical viewing distances (which it often isn't). Rather than using lots of processing power upscaling to 8k, perhaps they would be better using that processing to improve other picture attributes e.g. motion/posterisation.

"Samsung showed a scene from La La Land on their new TV and also on an OLED and the dark scenes looked very impressive, easily the equal of the OLED and the off-axis performance was vastly superior to previous Samsung models. When the scene became brighter, the blacks weren't as good as the OLED but the overall image was brighter, with the Samsung able to deliver a much higher APL."

Presumably Samsung set up this OLED for the demonstration. Enough said.

"However the lack of blooming was impressive and whilst it might still be an LCD TV, it was easily the best picture I have ever seen from an LCD TV."

Without a direct comparison with other TVs, I'll wait until we see reviews against other TVs available at the time e.g. a possible replacement of the Sony ZD9.
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
After the QLED marketing fiasco and reading the nonsense written by Samsung about QLED versus OLED, I'm not sure that I'll ever believe anything Samsung claims again.

Firstly, this Micro LED. Samsung seem to have suffered by not providing OLED, and now seem to be trying to tempt people with Micro LED and the idea that it is a 'game changer' but they would wouldn't they if they haven't got anything to compete effectively with OLED in the premium end of the market. Timescales seem vague at best, which suggests Samsung hasn't really got any realistic answer to OLED for the foreseeable future.

"Micro LED can theoretically deliver deep blacks, a peak brightness of 10,000nits and the full Rec.2020 colour gamut. OLED currently offers the best picture quality but is unlikely to ever deliver a peak brightness of more than 1,000nits. It also has possible image retention, screen burn and lifespan issues, none of which would affect a Micro LED screen."

It is easy to suggest that some future technology compares perfectly with an existing technology. Do you remember the early promise of OLED and what was written about what it could achieve? We still don't know if Micro LED comes with its own compromises when (or if) it eventually appears commercially. Based on its record, you can be sure that Samsung wouldn't admit any.

In terms of the new 8k panel, it seems a bit crazy to me. In terms of resolution, content typically does not tax the full resolution of a 4k display, even if the human eye is able to discern this resolution at typical viewing distances (which it often isn't). Rather than using lots of processing power upscaling to 8k, perhaps they would be better using that processing to improve other picture attributes e.g. motion/posterisation.

"Samsung showed a scene from La La Land on their new TV and also on an OLED and the dark scenes looked very impressive, easily the equal of the OLED and the off-axis performance was vastly superior to previous Samsung models. When the scene became brighter, the blacks weren't as good as the OLED but the overall image was brighter, with the Samsung able to deliver a much higher APL."

Presumably Samsung set up this OLED for the demonstration. Enough said.

"However the lack of blooming was impressive and whilst it might still be an LCD TV, it was easily the best picture I have ever seen from an LCD TV."

Without a direct comparison with other TVs, I'll wait until we see reviews against other TVs available at the time e.g. a possible replacement of the Sony ZD9.
Whilst I would agree with you on that very dubious QLED ( OLED) marketing , also using edge lit displays as flagship models was pee poor . They were the only display manufacturer to get close to fully realising the UHD specs on screen .
 

Blu-rayx

Well-known Member
"When pressed for a more specific timescale they said anywhere between one and nine years" :rotfl:

eenie meenie miney mo :D
 

askara

Novice Member
It need local dimming? I thought the whole point of Micro LED is it being aelf emissive like Oled?
 

SonOfSJ

Well-known Member
@askara The new flagship TV mentioned towards the end of the news article was not micro LED, which is between one and nine years away, as the earlier section of the article said.
 

SonOfSJ

Well-known Member
@Steve Withers Mr Withers, it isn't quite clear from the news article what size the new flagship television that Samsung showed to journalists in the closed door session was? But I'm intrigued when you say it's easily the best LCD television that you've ever seen. As you had said that the 85-inch Sony prototype with 10,000 nits blew away the adjacent 75ZD9, then what I really want to see is the 85-inch version of the Samsung Q9S FALD with 10,000 dimming zones and 4,000 nits against the commercial version of the 85-inch Sony prototype, with FALD and 10,000 nits. Maybe by the middle of next year, 2019, such a comparison may be possible. It'll take me until 2020 at least to save up to buy either of them anyway!
 

MahaRaja

Member
Samsung is holding its cards close to its chest. No info about 2018 models, all odd info is based on rumors and 'secret viewings', none of which give any confidence to customers.

What would happen is that either Sept in IFA they would unveil Micro LED LCD sets in smaller 4K sizes. For full Micro LED sets as Samsung said are long way off, until then MLCD would fill the vacuum. When the Micro LED does arrive, it would be end of OLED, which can't output more than 1000 nits and will have the same fate as Plasma.
 
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PC1975

Well-known Member
Very nice piece of kit regardless of the fact that the dimmable zones are in the hundreds. I'd like to see a 4k panel with the same level of performance.
 

stevelup

Distinguished Member
With regard to the Micro LED product, I'm going to sound like a right grumpy git here but this technology already exists.

LED Videowall modules are already widely available with a 0.8mm pixel pitch. They've been around in this pitch since about 2015. They can already do 10K+ NITS, and are of course inherently fully modular. But you wouldn't want to do anything other than the native size or you'd be introducing scaling.

3840x2160 x 0.8mm is 3.07M wide by 1.72M high.

The Samsung 146" display is 3.23M wide by 1.81M - so it's not any finer pitch than three year old commercially available products.

This will be news when they've got it down to living room size!
 

elgriego

Active Member
So Samsung like any magician that has something to hide in order for the trick to be successful, brings in front of our eyes the Razzle-dazzle Micro-led wall, an unfinished product years away from production and an 8K TV with whoever knows really how many local dimming zones but nonetheless a sophisticated LCD that really no one will be able to afford. All that in order to hide the real truth. That their 2018 affordable TV sets are really nothing else than last year QLEDs with a few more gimmicks. They know that this marketing stunt failed miserably against the superiority of OLEDs so they have hidden it all together. Like a good politician they have limited their "technological" agenda to the "future" and not the present since the presents hurts them as they have nothing else to offer than last years technology.

I think LG made the best ever investment buying the WOLED technology from KODAK. Whoever took that decision should be very high up within LG right now.
 

Blu-rayx

Well-known Member
So Samsung like any magician that has something to hide in order for the trick to be successful, brings in front of our eyes the Razzle-dazzle Micro-led wall, an unfinished product years away from production and an 8K TV with whoever knows really how many local dimming zones but nonetheless a sophisticated LCD that really no one will be able to afford. All that in order to hide the real truth. That their 2018 affordable TV sets are really nothing else than last year QLEDs with a few more gimmicks. They know that this marketing stunt failed miserably against the superiority of OLEDs so they have hidden it all together. Like a good politician they have limited their "technological" agenda to the "future" and not the present since the presents hurts them as they have nothing else to offer than last years technology.

I think LG made the best ever investment buying the WOLED technology from KODAK. Whoever took that decision should be very high up within LG right now.
I completely agree :smashin:
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
@Steve Withers Mr Withers, it isn't quite clear from the news article what size the new flagship television that Samsung showed to journalists in the closed door session was? But I'm intrigued when you say it's easily the best LCD television that you've ever seen. As you had said that the 85-inch Sony prototype with 10,000 nits blew away the adjacent 75ZD9, then what I really want to see is the 85-inch version of the Samsung Q9S FALD with 10,000 dimming zones and 4,000 nits against the commercial version of the 85-inch Sony prototype, with FALD and 10,000 nits. Maybe by the middle of next year, 2019, such a comparison may be possible. It'll take me until 2020 at least to save up to buy either of them anyway!
Samsung are being deliberately vague about pretty much everything at the moment Ken but it looked like they had 65, 75 and 85 inch versions knocking around the show. When I say best LCD TV that I've seen, I'm not counting prototype TVs, just what might actually be released in stores.
 

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