CES 2018 News: LG discuss AutoCal feature on OLED and SUPER UHD TVs

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
The new AutoCal feature, which will be available for Home Enthusiast as well as the Business and Ultimate versions of CalMAN, will be released as a beta-version when the TVs ship in the spring
Now that I am surprised at. I wonder if we'll see any bundle deals of TV and Calman together, or a £XXX off voucher with every TV purchase or vice versa..
 
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danny daniell

Well-known Member
Why can’t they run this on each screen before it leaves the factory?
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
Why can’t they run this on each screen before it leaves the factory?
Accepted 'wisdom' or perhaps just an urban myth is that calibration is pretty useless until the TV has done a couple of hundred hours. Before that it will drift around before settling down to a more stable condition. It needs running in.

So by that way of thinking the factory calibration will be inaccurate after you been watching it for a while and it will then need another calibration anyway.
 

danny daniell

Well-known Member
Accepted 'wisdom' or perhaps just an urban myth is that calibration is pretty useless until the TV has done a couple of hundred hours. Before that it will drift around before settling down to a more stable condition. It needs running in.

So by that way of thinking the factory calibration will be inaccurate after you been watching it for a while and it will then need another calibration anyway.
Yeah I hear that, I have an inkling that some manufacturers might have a pop at it as some makes/units are much closer to Reference settings straight out of the box?
 

Simba

Distinguished Member
i think LG calibrate some PC LCD monitors at the factory...the ultra wide display i bought recently, im sure there was a basic calibration sheet provided.
 

Earthscope

Well-known Member
For me this was the most exciting news from CES this year. Hats of to LG for offering this. Super excited to see this in action on the new 65" C8..
 

The_Wierd

Well-known Member
Why can’t they run this on each screen before it leaves the factory?
I would not be surprised if they do start doing this. I work in electronics and have been to a TV factory a few years ago - the speed that they build the sets is crazy, so from what I saw it took too much time (and therefore too much cost) to do anything other than basic calibration of each set. With a standard automated method available, it might be justified on the more premium models at least.
 
One of the best CES news. I really hope that since it's a very fast process then they will release the TVs with great factory calibration, great is good enough for most people, enthusiastic people sure will want to see reference but I think at some point nobody can tell how perfect is the calibration by naked eye, sure in the software you can see the numbers but not with naked eye. But these are the people who can tell the difference between 59.9 fps and 60fps in games so I could be wrong haha

Anyway, fingers crossed for great factory calibration because I still couldn't find a calibrator in my country...

PS: What a badass name tag on the LG guy :)
 

stevelup

Distinguished Member
Philips did production line calibration on their higher end CRT models donkeys years ago. There was a phase on the line where all the TVs had colour analysers stuck to the screens and as they went down a conveyor, they did a full auto-cal. Every TV came off the production line with different settings.

Back to the present day... I'm obviously missing something, but how is this different to doing a CalMan auto-cal? My now 'ancient' VT65 supports this, as do pretty much all JVC projectors for example. Is this actually anything new, or is it just marketing waffle?

If you look here:- Feature Matrix

About two thirds of the way down, you'll see that Panasonic TVs have supported this since 2010. It's 2018 now and this has become news...

I think this tells us more about Panasonic / SpectraCal's marketing departments that it does about LG's technical innovation ;)
 

orange55

Well-known Member
For me this was the most exciting news from CES this year. Hats of to LG for offering this.
Agreed, all the other TV news has been rather dull.
 

MahaRaja

Member
As it takes very little time to do it, they could have done the calibration at the factory. It's a myth that it needs run for several hundred hours and then has to be calibrated in your home. Apart from brightness to suit individual needs everything else can be set.
 

Ivan Samuel

Active Member
Philips did production line calibration on their higher end CRT models donkeys years ago. There was a phase on the line where all the TVs had colour analysers stuck to the screens and as they went down a conveyor, they did a full auto-cal. Every TV came off the production line with different settings.

Back to the present day... I'm obviously missing something, but how is this different to doing a CalMan auto-cal? My now 'ancient' VT65 supports this, as do pretty much all JVC projectors for example. Is this actually anything new, or is it just marketing waffle?

If you look here:- Feature Matrix

About two thirds of the way down, you'll see that Panasonic TVs have supported this since 2010. It's 2018 now and this has become news...

I think this tells us more about Panasonic / SpectraCal's marketing departments that it does about LG's technical innovation ;)
The Panasonic autocal (apart from the EZ1002) through CalMAN is essentially automated gamma, white balance and colour management system adjustments as found in the user menus.

LG have changed the game by adding the option of a 3500-point 3D LUT which will be able to be applied to all sources. This applies the colour corrections across the entire luminance range as opposed to taking measurements for key colours.
This approach is used for colour critical work in the professional world and has previously only been available to end users through devices capable of holding a LUT (Lumagen Radiance, eeColor box, madVR).
The ability to access the internal 3D LUTs will take accuracy to the next level and allow the corrections to be applied to internal TV tuners and apps also.
 

Ivan Samuel

Active Member
As it takes very little time to do it, they could have done the calibration at the factory. It's a myth that it needs run for several hundred hours and then has to be calibrated in your home. Apart from brightness to suit individual needs everything else can be set.
Would you pay more money for the TV if it were calibrated in the factory?
Most buyers couldn't care less about colour accuracy and would not.
 

ashenfie

Well-known Member
Philips did production line calibration on their higher end CRT models donkeys years ago. There was a phase on the line where all the TVs had colour analysers stuck to the screens and as they went down a conveyor, they did a full auto-cal. Every TV came off the production line with different settings.

Back to the present day... I'm obviously missing something, but how is this different to doing a CalMan auto-cal? My now 'ancient' VT65 supports this, as do pretty much all JVC projectors for example. Is this actually anything new, or is it just marketing waffle?

If you look here:- Feature Matrix

About two thirds of the way down, you'll see that Panasonic TVs have supported this since 2010. It's 2018 now and this has become news...

I think this tells us more about Panasonic / SpectraCal's marketing departments that it does about LG's technical innovation ;)
I think basically it bypasses the user interface and has profile for LG tv so it's easier to use.
 

raymondo77

Member
The Panasonic autocal (apart from the EZ1002) through CalMAN is essentially automated gamma, white balance and colour management system adjustments as found in the user menus.

LG have changed the game by adding the option of a 3500-point 3D LUT which will be able to be applied to all sources. This applies the colour corrections across the entire luminance range as opposed to taking measurements for key colours.
This approach is used for colour critical work in the professional world and has previously only been available to end users through devices capable of holding a LUT (Lumagen Radiance, eeColor box, madVR).
The ability to access the internal 3D LUTs will take accuracy to the next level and allow the corrections to be applied to internal TV tuners and apps also.
You missed a zero, it's 35,937 (33*33*33) for colour. Plus an additional 1024 1D LUT for white balance I think.

It allows for an incredible level of granularity, but I do wonder how much of a practical difference it'd make, and whether or not most people would be able to tell the difference between a "normal" calibration and the LUT auto-cal.
 

Ivan Samuel

Active Member
You missed a zero, it's 35,937 (33*33*33) for colour. Plus an additional 1024 1D LUT for white balance I think.

It allows for an incredible level of granularity, but I do wonder how much of a practical difference it'd make, and whether or not most people would be able to tell the difference between a "normal" calibration and the LUT auto-cal.
I didn't. Those points will be interpolated from a 3500-point profile (according to the information released so far).

You can see a visual difference between a display calibrated with a large 3D LUT profile (3000 - 5000 points) and just using the standard controls for white balance and CMS.
 
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You missed a zero, it's 35,937 (33*33*33) for colour. Plus an additional 1024 1D LUT for white balance I think.

It allows for an incredible level of granularity, but I do wonder how much of a practical difference it'd make, and whether or not most people would be able to tell the difference between a "normal" calibration and the LUT auto-cal.
Most people can't even tell the difference between the factory ISF and calibrated ISF. And there are few people who pay for dark room calibration but never watch the TV in dark only with lights on.
I would go that far that most people just turn on the TV without selecting anything so they are using with standard mode.

I think I'm not picky, factory ISF modes are decent for me.
 

raymondo77

Member
Presumably there's the cost of an HDR capable signal/pattern generator too?
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
In the region of £500 - £650 depending on whether you want to be able to calibrate for Dolby Vision.
If Portrait Displays or LG have any sense they will offer a discounted price for 2018 LG purchasers. Send us your LG TV purchase invoice and we'll send you a $/£100 off voucher code. Perhaps doing a tied to LG TV use only version of the software.
 

Ivan Samuel

Active Member
Presumably there's the cost of an HDR capable signal/pattern generator too?
No. CalMAN Enthusiast is $399.
An HDfury Integral is in the region of £170 and a D3 approximately £200 new.
A second-hand signal generator like the AccuPel 5000 will push the price up to around £850 in total.
 

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