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Centre Speaker - Any Ideas !!

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by sofaboy, May 6, 2002.

  1. sofaboy

    sofaboy
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    Hi, I currently have a Eltax centre ( bought from Richer sounds, NUff said about that)..

    Can anyone recommend a more livlier center speaker, some low volume or deep sounds from my eltax center seems to get lost somewhere and I loose some speech...

    I cant really spend loads of money, but if you can give me any ideas i might sell a kidney to pay for a new centre....

    Im using a Yamaha ax-620 amp and have Kef Cresta 2's as fronts and Cresta 1's as rears... and Yamaha sw 305 sub

    Cheers big ears:)
     
  2. Jase

    Jase
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    Hi

    What about the Kef Cresta centre?? Or even a Cresta 1 (if its shielded). They´ll match your others perfectly & should sound better than the Eltax as well.
     
  3. john87

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    Mission 77C1, I'm sure many on the forum will back me up with that.
     
  4. thudspud

    thudspud
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    Hello

    Can't fault the 77C1, Got mine from richer sounds two months back for £109.99 (In Black)

    Sounds great, very sturdy too, Accidently knocked it off the top of my TV onto the floor at it survived intact!!!

    Cheers

    Chris
     
  5. Geoffc10

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    Yep go for cresta centre (£69) in cherry anyway, black is £10 cheaper. It will match the rest of your system which is what you want. Oh and the centre can be bi wired.
    I had a eltax liberty centre and it was a tad on the bassy side. The kef sounds much better for speech anyway.
     
  6. john87

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    Funny you should say the Mission is sturdy... the first time I got it, one of the drivers had come off and was rattiling around in the cabinet! :eek:

    It was a faulty batch though, apparantly.
     
  7. uncle eric

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    Guys,

    Both the 77c and Cresta C employ two mid woofers either side of a tweeter (or tweeter array in the case of the 77c).
    Most speaker designers worth their salt will tell you this is bad news.
    This design generally causes lobing which in turn causes bad response dips and peaks. Amonst other problems, this results in poor intelligibility particulary with off axis listening.

    I've been trying to deter people from centre speakers designs such as the Mission 77c and Cresta C for quite a while now.

    I have nothing against KEF or Mission but their persistence, like many other manufacturers in producing (differing) centres and particularly centres of the above designs is frustrating.

    Eric
     
  8. cybersoga

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  9. Respectamonkeee

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    Hi Eric, if u dont rate the missions or the kefs wot would you say was a good all rounder at a sub £100 price?

    ta m8ty
     
  10. stranger

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    eric, the77c has 1 mid/woofer and a passive drone the77c1 has two mid woofers i only mention it because hyperfi are still selling the 77c in a kit. i use the 77c1 and in practice its a good centre, the 77c i had first did not have the same clout or clarity.
     
  11. sofaboy

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    HI eric you are right, my eltax has two mid woofers either side of a tweeter.... and thats why it sounds a bit well crappy.

    So may I use you as my center speaker guru and ask what speaker configuration is best for a centre? or any tips on buying a good center... cheers my guru!!
     
  12. Orbital

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    Eric,

    Funny you should say that because this is what I find the 77c1 really good at. The clarity of the dialogue from 77c1 was one of the first thing's I fell in love with on the 77c1 and also it's ability to be positioned with a quite wide variance in the vertical field and still hold itself together. I don't know if the triple array of tweeters helps in this respect (I'd imagine they must do).

    Cheers

    Dave
     
  13. uncle eric

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    It certainly doesn't help. I think most know that an identical front three is optimum. This is not always possible due to cost or logistical problems. I've recently recommended (and used in quite a few installs) the M&K S85 to a number of friends whereby the identical centre is such that it can easily be used with TV based systems.
    If you look at M&K's S125 model (the next model up) they employ two mid range drivers that are not either side of the tweeter. The two drivers sit next to each other while the tweeter sits at the end. Maybe Mission and others should take note.

    Another way to go is to follow what I did last month for my parents. I bought three pair of speakers (KEF Q1's, best bang for buck budget speaker around) and split one pair as centre and rear centre for the EX/ES channel. Although the front was difficult to position it can be done.

    The sound by the way was seamless.

    Eric
     
  14. stranger

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    eric going on your experience, my front mains are dynaudio audience 42s ny centre the mission 77c1 as mentioned, would i get even better clarity with the dynaudio 42c-enough to make it worthwhile ditching the mission. thanks, ken
     
  15. uncle eric

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    Dave,
    The triple array would help but in my view this would have sounded even better with the tweeters employed on one end rather than in between the two woofers. To some extent, the reason for this design is aesthetic (are you listening Mission).

    I've noticed from your room layout that your main listening positions are far from off axis which means for your situation, lobing is not a huge issue.

    What is an issue (and this is purely personal) is the use of the 773e for L/R and the 77c for centre. Even with the use of identical drivers throughout the front three, the volume differences with these are enormous. The 773e has 22 litres of volume while the 77c is one third of this at just over 7 litres.

    What this means is that there is a huge mismatch in timbre with your front three. You should be able to spot this even with test tones. With dialogue and vocals this will be glaringly obvious and to some extent disturbing (to me anyway).
    Try playing the same dialogue or vocals through each speaker in turn and you will see what I mean. The L/R's will have more body and substance in comparison to the much smaller centre.

    You can also experiment by swapping over one of the mains with the centre whereby you will also see what you are missing in the middle.

    Eric
     
  16. uncle eric

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    Ken,
    The Dynaudio 42's are great speakers. Replacing the Mission centre with the 42c (similar volume and identical drivers to your mains) would improve your front soundstage no end. The difference would in fact be quite drastic.

    Eric
     
  17. stranger

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    thanks eric, i'll try it even though i like the mission i respect your views enough so that i'll probably buy it after a listen. ken.
     
  18. Chip

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    Eric,
    When you say volume do you mean how loud it goes?

    Chip
     
  19. uncle eric

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    Chip
    No, I mean internal volume.

    Eric
     
  20. Chip

    Chip
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    Oh. Does this make a difference?

    Chip
     
  21. stranger

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    eric, is chip related to chompy? i feel something is fishy unless he's a bit of a windup merchant, still it passes the time while i am running in the servo and the kids are out. ken
     
  22. uncle eric

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    Ken,
    I think its his second cousin removed.

    Chip,
    Please take time to read the thread.

    Eric
     
  23. Orbital

    Orbital
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    I'll have a go at this Eric and if I notice a difference I'll probably never forgive you :D What's that saying? Ignorance is bliss? ;)

    Cheers

    Dave
     
  24. buns

    buns
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    Basically what eric is saying here is that the center should match your main pair.....ie. be the same model of speaker.

    Is that correct?

    ad
     
  25. Chip

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    Sorry Eric but I just dont get it :(
    If something has the same drivers surely they will sound the same?

    Chip
     
  26. stranger

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    chip, by drivers do you mean cars or speakers? ken.
     
  27. uncle eric

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    Chip,
    All things being equal, enclosure shape, bracing, general design, etc.
    A driver in a small enclosure will sound different to the identical driver in a larger enclosure.

    Eric
     
  28. sofaboy

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    Just a to let you know that i've finally got a center that im happy with. I went for the Kef cresta center

    ....I did listern to you uncle eric, but I gave a couple a home test for a week and plummed for the Kef...

    I also had a V. tight budget (so m+k was out of the question) and a g/f which thinks that looks are more important than sound (only a woman could get them that way round!!!)

    Anyway, thanks all for your advice im now a happy camper ... Just got to sell my eltax now before she finds out.....
    :confused: ;)

    Cheers all
     
  29. stranger

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    eric, been auditioning the42c for 2 days now, you are right drastic improvement to whole soundstage, servo 15 improving daily,thanks for all your help, ken. p.s. pay for 42c on monday. god, where does it end. p.p.s. its fun i love it.
     
  30. uncle eric

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    Ken,
    Once you experience the joys of a virtually seemless front soundstage, there's no going back. Hope you are enjoying yourself.

    Regards
    Eric
     

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