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Censorship in the UK is driving me crazy!

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by pjclark1, Mar 21, 2005.

  1. pjclark1

    pjclark1
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    I love old westerns and have just watched
    Chato's Land
    Ulzana's Raid
    Graphic rape, mutilation and acts of horrendous violence is all OK and left in.
    Scenes with horses tripping over have all been removed
    (apparently Soldier Blue will be cut in the same way, glad I have the German release))

    What a crazy country we all live in.
     
  2. apul

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    Same with the R2 Conan discs i have. Is there any reason for this?
    Seems a total waste if an animal was hurt and they didnt use it. ;)
     
  3. pjclark1

    pjclark1
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    Just found this -

    Soldier Blue 2005 release
    Bizarrely the most recent resubmission in 2005 ended up by being unnecessarily more cut than the previous version.
    The BBFC make the following statement: The BBFC requested 7 seconds of cuts to remove cruel horsefalls but the distributor made additional voluntary cuts of 23 seconds to remove an acceptable horsefall and part of a rape scene. These cuts were not required by the BBFC but were in line with cuts
    made to previous video releases

    Chato's Land 2004 Release
    1972 US Western by Michael Winner (MGM Home Entertainment)
    Other cuts restored but 14s of cuts to horse trips remain when resubmitted in 2004
    There are 4 cuts of horsetrips, 3 when Chato ambushes the posse early on to scare them off and 1 later when he shoots Victor French's horse
     
  4. Ethics Gradient

    Ethics Gradient
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    I find it rather ironic tbh
    If you want to live in a world where people watching on screen violence get an even more unrealistic view of it because they cut all the actual results.

    If you bring a horse down, it would be better to show the full results - so people understand the agony and pain envolved.
    Its like the depiction of fights and blows to the head - the more you depict it graphically and show the results in a realistic rather than fake way - the more shocking and off putting the concept of actually doing it is.

    If you can put the image in someones mind of the forces and bones connecting when someone gets hit in the face .... or more importantly with a baseball bat or a knife ( which is seems more often than not either cut or glamorised in such away as to not look either as serious as such a blow would be .... or more so in a stylised way ) If kids and young lads saw the REAL results of say being stabbed or slashed in a film ... the may start to reconsider carrying them.
     
  5. Harj

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    i started a thread on Ulzanas Raid a while ago , all other reigons have it uncut.Therefor I will have to re-invest in a new dvd of one of my favourite westerns.
     
  6. Garrett

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    I think I'm going to censor this thread and move it from GC to the movies section :laugh:
     
  7. Fordy

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    wait till we see what they do with Revenge of the Sith.

    I may have to go over to the states just to watch this.
     
  8. pjclark1

    pjclark1
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    As long as no horses are hurt, while they drag the thread to the movies section.
     
  9. lurker75

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    I know in more recent films they do to great lengths to make sure any animals do not get hurt during filming. What I don't understand is why cut old films where animals have been hurt during the course if the film?
     
  10. Marc

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    how can you say that! imagine how distressful it would be for the horse in question's children if they are watching!
     
  11. AML

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    I also feel theres too much censorship in the UK. :rolleyes:
    An example, not related to horses:

    The first time i watched "The Terminator". Arnie just arrives and is looking for some clothes so he approaches some punks to take their clothes!

    Everyone rememebers this scene. BUT do you remember seeing Arnies schlong waving in the wind as he approaches the youths?
    Well I dont.
    That is untill I got the R2 (jp) Ultimate edition and actually had to press the rewind button to make sure I had just seen what I had just seen!

    Yes folks, they felt the need to cut arnies (rather large I might add) falice from the movie. It really shouldnt be necesary to do that in this day and age! :D
     
  12. GalacticaActual

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    i think the bbfc will leave this alone unless old goergey boy wants a low certificate. He has gone on record saying that it is a darker film and is expecting a pg13 ( in the us) so I would not be suprised if it gets a 12A rating in the uk.


    Some of the worst examples of cuts to movies can be found on the melonfarmers web site .


    click here for details of all things cesonrship related
     
  13. mjn

    mjn
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    I've that DVD, but don't remember seeing the above scene......maybe thats not a bad thing though :eek:
     
  14. pjclark1

    pjclark1
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    just watched Ulzana's raid (again)
    at least 3 clips of horses being shot have been hacked out. Guy points rifle at horse, next second guy on ground, no shot, no horse fall. looks like the movie has been edited by a 5 year old. But the woman tied up with her top ripped off after the rape is OK to show.

    Can't stand it any longer, looks like the only place to buy westerns is Germany, just ordered a new one from amazon.de for a tenner.
    (got Soldier Blue from there and it appeared to be completely uncut)
     
  15. pjclark1

    pjclark1
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    can someone tell me why the NTSC version of Ulzana's Raid costs $55 on amazon.com
    but only £12.99 for the same NTSC movie on amazon.co.uk?
     
  16. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    Probably the stupidest post I've ever read in these forums.

    Okey dokey. Then why not start killing and maiming actors for real in movies so people can understand the agony and pain involved? What a noble service cinema will be performing for mankind! :rolleyes:

    :confused: Asinine beyond belief! :confused:

    The point here is that the rape and mutilation were not real. No one was really raped, no one was really mutilated. Make believe. That "acting" stuff, y'know? The mistreatment of the horses was real. This same half-baked "reasoning" was used on an earlier thread too.

    Person mistreated - not real. Animal mistreated - real. Why is it so hard to grasp?

    Anyone who thinks it justifiable that an animal is potentially or actually maimed for their entertainment is a sicko.
     
  17. Sigismund

    Sigismund
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    Was it Ben Hur that had the death of a stuntman left in? Of course, I would imagine that the stunt man's family/next of kin had a say in whether his final "stunt" should be part of the movie - and I could easily imagine money playing a part in any decision made. But animals aren't quite so well represented, and there are guidelines set down on how they should be treated on set. I think it quite sensible to censor animal suffering in movies - at least it may send a message that the cost of filming such suffering is money wasted and therefore encourage a "responsible" attitude.
     
  18. pjclark1

    pjclark1
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    Stuart has asked for rude posters to be reported, I have done as he asked.
    There is simply no need to insult other members when you post.
     
  19. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    Your point is taken. Instead of "stupidest" and "asinine", with a cooler head let's just say "ill considered".

    I try my best not to respond in anger on these forums, but you must appreciate how emotive it is when someone advocates showing an animal suffering in order that their entertainment experience should not be compromised. Bear in mind that such a position could also be viewed as an "insult" to the sensibilities of many members on here.

    It's just that I'm flabbergasted by your continued attempt to equate acting/makeup/special effects with real cruelty and suffering.

    Sigismund is absolutely correct. The message was sent out many years ago to Hollywood that this type of shameful activity was unacceptable, which is why it is outlawed today.
     
  20. Zone

    Zone
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    Well said :thumbsup:
     
  21. Harj

    Harj
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    the_pauley

    when i posted about the exact same thing, someone (you?) posted that i may enjoy seeing animals suffer. I dont, but i was annoyed tha Ulzana Raid had been cut. The point i mentioned at the time, the reknowned director Robert Aldrich, cast (Burt Lancaster) would have ensured they were within the guidelines at the time. Rhis was not a 2-bit cheap film.

    I also stated that when shown on tv it is uncut, all horse tripping is in. Also the rest of the world gets it on dvd uncut.

    Now if its shown on tv uncut, howcome its not considered cruel? And do you think it is cruel (horse stunts) only in this country where as the rest of the world seems to think all stunts were performed without any cruelty to animals?

    Have you seen Ran (Kurosawa film) and the epic battle scenes involving hundreds of horses? Why is that passed uncut?
     
  22. metro

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    I also stated that when shown on tv it is uncut, all horse tripping is in. Also the rest of the world gets it on dvd uncut.

    Now if its shown on tv uncut, howcome its not considered cruel? And do you think it is cruel (horse stunts) only in this country where as the rest of the world seems to think all stunts were performed without any cruelty to animals?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    hmmmmmmm the answer to the above question is simple, the tv companies do not have to answer to the BBFC guidelines thats why,although they do sometimes (the BBC had to answer to the BBFC once I do remember when Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom was screened,over the "heart scene") so thats why some are shown in full on tv.
     
  23. pjclark1

    pjclark1
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    I don't see how cutting horse trips in old movies punishes anyone except us the viewers.
    If people want to do a retrospective punishment, maybe banning the movie altogether, and destroying all masters would be a more suitable punishment.

    You can't go back and change history. The rest of the world doesn't try. Just a bunch of nutters called the BBFC.
     
  24. Sigismund

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    I don't think it's a question of trying to change history, and I think the BBFC are far from being nutters. They are given the responsibility for deciding upon such matters and merely do their jobs :) There are many parts of the world that do things differently compared to the UK - it doesn't mean that they're right and the UK is wrong, or indeed that the UK is right and they're wrong! I'm not quite sure of your concerns here - if a DVD is availble with scenes of horses or other animals being injured and it's the version you want - buy it from wherever it's available :) That's what I do with movies such as Indy Jones, Star Wars etc. and rather than regarding the BBFC as nutters for insisting on cuts I'm thankful that these other versions are available. Having said that, all my DVDs are NTSC format so even if the Pal DVDs from the UK weren't cut I still wouldn't buy them :D
     
  25. pjclark1

    pjclark1
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    Ulzana's Raid is not available in the US, so I just bought mine from amazon.de.
    You are right though, I pretty much buy all my Dvds from abroad, prices in the UK are always too high and content is often very poor.
     
  26. Damo121

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    And to think that when shown on tv uncut, it is reaching a wider audience. :lesson:
     
  27. NicolasB

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    Yeah, yeah, yeah, they tried that defence at Nuremberg; it didn't wash then and it won't wash now.

    Yes, it does. The entire concept of censorship is fundamentally nonsensical. For starters, if "extreme" material really had the ability to deprave and corrupt then the censors themselves would become irretrievably depraved and corrupted by it.

    The whole thing is based purely on snobbery. "Oh, of course, this will have no effect on us, but, you know, there are other people out there, the sort of people who never go to arthouse cinemas or watch foreign films, and we have to protect them." Absolute b*llocks.

    I'm not suggesting it's impossible for people to be influenced badly by films, but let's not forget that Jeffrey Dahmer was inspired to commit multiple murders as a result of watching Return Of The Jedi: if someone is that f*cked up, then anything can set them off, so censorship is still useless!

    I'm thoroughly in favour of classifying films, because that gives people more information, and therefore allows them to make informed choices. I can also see why parents would want to know whether or not a film is scary or upsetting before letting a young child watch it - young children (and I emphasise "young") can be genuinely frightened or upset by horror films.

    Giving people choices and freedom is good. Taking it away is not. There has yet to be even one convincing piece of scientific evidence to suggest that exposure to violent or sexual imagery has generated aberrant behaviour. The whole basis of censorship is wrong, and it should be stamped out.
     
  28. Fordy

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    We'll having just seen a major Star Wars spolier image, I'll be very surprised if if it doesnt get a 15.
     
  29. pjclark1

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    I have

    Chato's land UK, no horse tripping, full nudity
    Chato's Land US, full horse tripping, no nudity
    Chato's Land Germany, full horse tripping, full nudity
     
  30. KraGorn

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    Tell me, WHY do you want to watch animal cruelty?
     

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