Celestion S10 vs SVS PB-10

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by BAN5HEE, Nov 1, 2005.

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  1. BAN5HEE

    BAN5HEE
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    Hi Guys. I have a 7.1 system at the moment. I have THE Beech effect AVF302 as my left and right and the AVC301 center. The remaing four are all AVS301's. Now they are loveley and go nicely with my decor. The room size is about 13ft by 8ft. My sub is the SV10. Would I notice a huge difference by upgrading it to the SVS PB-10? Or should I be happy with my SV10? Checkout this site for Celestion details. http://www.celestion.com/products/soundstyle/soundstylespecs.html
     
  2. Hungry Horace

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    The PB10 will outmaneuver many 15" subs, and you will probably notice a huge difference between the PB10, and your Celestion :)
     
  3. MADMAND

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    You will notice an even bigger difference going from your celestion to a BK Monolith as it is a class above the PB10. Assuming you have the space for the BEAST :devil:
     
  4. 30CenturyMan

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    Not sure what is meant by this, can you name the 15" units that you think will be outmaneuvered and in what way?
     
  5. BAN5HEE

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    I have done a search on the forums regarding the PB10 and the BK Monolith. It appears that people are sort of indecided which one is the best. Everyone is always raving about SVS but I have heard some good things about the monolith. I geuss I should try and demo them both...
     
  6. Hungry Horace

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    Scott3: The PB10 will go deeper, with less distortion then for example the Velodyne CHT15R. The one question just about everyone that have heard my PB10 have asked is "how can it be this good/loud etc when it's only a 10" driver?".

    I've even tried my PB10 against a DD18. With 18", and 2000w the PB10 shouldn't have been able to keep up, and with music, it couldn't. But when it came to movies the PB10 came close to the DD18
     
  7. 30CenturyMan

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    Can you substatiate this, or are you just guessing or going by what you've 'heard'?

    Even if it were true of this particular 15" unit, one sub doesn't constitute "many 15" subs".

    I think this is very much 'in your opinion'. Again, is their any evidence to back this up?

    I have heard the PB-10 alongside the 20-39PC+ and it was outclassed by the tube, as one would expect. So I fail to see how it would compare to the DD-18. (which I have also heard, albeit in a different environment).
     
  8. recruit

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    :rotfl:
     
  9. Hungry Horace

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    Scott3: Don't know where you've been hiding, but I take it that you've missed out on the ****** tests.

    The DD18s downside, well any small subs downside, is power compression. At 20hz the DD18 is just 1db louder then the PB10, as the frequency increases so does the db delta, and this is why the DD18 absolutely killed the PB10 when it came to music at loud levels

    But as the frequency decreases, so does the performance delta, and for movies the DD18 was still better, but the difference was much smaller. And this was not just in my opinion, me and the owner of the DD18 agreed upon everything we heard.

    I'm not sure what kind of evidence it would take to convince you? But you could try comparing the numbers from ****** with Ed Mullens. Absolutely everything I heard could be explained out from those numbers.
     
  10. Hungry Horace

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    btw. Ilkka measured the PB10 this weekend, so pretty soon we will have a second set of data
     
  11. Hungry Horace

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    Thanks Marek. I hope I sometime will get a chance to listen to a Monolith. Music performance is so subjective so that you will have to hear the sub with your own ears. Since I tamed my roomresponse with a BFD, I've been more then happy with my PB10 as a music sub.

    But I do consider the Monolith SVSs stiffest competitor, and maybe also their only competitor price/performance considered?
     
  12. 30CenturyMan

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    The two tests you mention, use slightly different methodology and totally different equipment. So I wouldn't call that a comparison.

    As I've already said, I've heard the PB-10, and for the money it is a fine subwoofer, but as far as "outmaneuvering many 15" subs" goes, and suggesting it comes close to the DD-18 etc. I think is misleading to say the least.
     
  13. Hungry Horace

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    The results are comparable, as are those by Keith Yates & Ilkka. They all show similar results when they test the same subwoofers. Keith Yates test of the DD18 is more or less identical to ******s numbers.

    And the numbers do reflect real world performance, this I have heard with my own ears several times. And if they didn't, there would be no point in conducting those tests.

    Remember that I'm only talking about undistorted SPL, not SQ that I find to subjective to discuss.

    I know that my claim is bordering on blasphemy, and both me, and the DD18s owner were surprised that the PB10 came so close. I think that the DDs are excellent subs, but they will never win the 'bang for the buck' category.

    You are entitled to think what you want, but trust me, the numbers do not lie, and neither do I.
     
  14. Hungry Horace

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  15. recruit

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    To me Hungry Horace to compare the PB10 as near performance to the DD18 is just crazy even if you say the tests don't lie there is just so much more to it than that.

    I like SVS subs as i did own one a 25-31pc+ and yes it did perform very well indeed but i then changed to an M&K MX350MKII and the bass IMO was just so much better it had more slam and punch than the SVS so it was a big improvement and then i changed to a Velodyne DD12 and again the DD series is a BIG improvement over both the SVS and M&K in my room, so to say the DD18 is close to the PB10 is just not true and very misleading to readers.

    Yes bang for the buck is very good but that is not everything that makes a good subwoofer.
     
  16. Hungry Horace

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    recruit: You did read the part were I stated that I'm only comparing undistorted SPL, and not SQ, and that it was only for movies that the PB10 came close? The objective measurements back up what I heard, and the DD18s owner agreed, so I'm convinced.

    I do not know what it will take to convince you? Since you neither belive the numbers, or me I do not think that there is much more I can do.


    I have no problems beliving that you did find the M&K 350 the better sub, I've never heard a M&K so I can't really comment. But the objective measurements does not paint a pretty picture of the 350 as a sub for movies. So I take it that you're talking about music?

    On a general note you listen as much to the room, as you listen to any given sub. Maybe the 350s FR suited your room better?

    It is a couple of months ago since I did the test, and I was never sure if I should post anything about it because I knew that some people would have a hard time beliving it. I've mentioned the test for Ilkka, and Ed Mullen, and they had no problems beliving what I heard.

    It is my belief that if you're looking for a sub just for movies, the DDs should not be at the top of your list. If you're also going to use it for music, and you're stinking rich, the DDs should be in the top half of your list. We without a trustfund will just have to slum it out with our SVSs ;)

    I've ordered a PB12 Plus, and if the DD18s owner is willing I'll probably do a new VS test. Maybe I then should bring my laptop, and measure what I hear.
     
  17. Ilkka R

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    Yes he is. ;)

    I know that Marek is quite honest man, but just to let you know that he has a vested interest in BK products.
     
  18. recruit

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    I suppose if all this is True then performance wise all you need to spend is $400 and you more or less have the same performance as a DD18 for movies :laugh:

    Thanks Hungry Horace for educateing me !

    Btw - I used to enjoy that game all those years ago on the ZX Spectrum i used to have a laugh then too... ;)
     
  19. Ian J

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    Unfortunately we will have to ask Marek not to post any more in the subwoofer forum if he has a financial interest in the products that he is promoting
     
  20. PJTX100

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    The poor old Celestion seems to have been forgotten in all this testosterone-induced manoeuvring. :D

    One aspect which hasn't been discussed is the fact that the PB10 (I think) is SVS's "budget model" where-as the Monolith is BK's "flagship".

    Now, there are valid arguments both ways in this respect - the SVS could be "leveraging the technology" of its more powerful siblings or it could be "compromising" to meet a budget.

    BK could be putting "all their expertise into a no compromise package" or "stretching themselves to mix it with the big boys".

    Either way, I'm sure if the badges were switched on the PB10 and Monolith, the SVS would be seen as the compelling buy based on spec and price. I think seeing that the "shoe is on the other FOOT" the Monolith, coming from a very well respected manufacturer, deserves no less treatment.

    ...PJ :devil:
     
  21. BAN5HEE

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    Maybe I should just get both... :D but you all agree then any of the two will out perform my poor S10?
     
  22. Hungry Horace

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    It has been a pleasure, basically subwoofer performance isn't measured in £, watts, or inches. dB, THD, and FR is where it's at

    I still have my rubber keyed Spectrum, Atic Atac is my personal favorite, along with Wheelie, Ant Attack, oh well, the list goes on
     
  23. recruit

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    Nah - Manic Miner still rates as one of the best :D

    Btw - Still not convinced, PB12 ultra yes but not a PB10...

    Lets not take this thread too off topic as Banshee is looking for advice ;)
     
  24. Ian J

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    Either the SVS PB-10 or the BK Monolith will comfortably outperform your Celestion sub
     
  25. BAN5HEE

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    Well after reading every review I could lay my hands on and everyone on this forums input I have purchased a SVS PB10. It should be here today. I can't wait. It's going to be a good weekend! :D

    P.S. Anyone interested in buying a Celestion S10? It's in very good condition.
     
  26. Nemeliza

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    nice!

    Let us know how the SVS is.

    How does the Celestion S10 hold up against a REL Q150e?
     
  27. Dfour

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    The tests with Ika showed the PB10 is a very good sub and the Monolith only beats it in certain places and needs a bigger box, a 2 inch bigger driver and 1 inch bigger port to boot.

    I dont betend understand all the graphs and what they all mean so this is mainly my own interpretations and others veiws.
     
  28. BAN5HEE

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    Not quite sure but I must say the S10 is a suprisingly nice sub. Don't know much about the REL Q150e but I'm sure someone has one that can comment.
     
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