CD37 gapless?

[Foghat]

Today I auditioned a CD37 CD player, and bizarrely it paused for about 1 second between tracks that actually segue seemlessly from one to the next.

This is very strange - I could understand it if they were MP3 CDs, but these were standard pre-recorded official release CDs that have always played fine on every other player I've tried.

The sales chap was at a loss to explain, not really knowing the CD37, and is contacting Arcam to investigate, but is this normal behaviour on CD37s? Crazy if it is.......I can't be doing with a CD player that puts gaps between tracks where there shouldn't be.

 

[brahms]

I've owned a CD37 for over a year and use it daily but have not experienced this problem. Would be interested to hear the explanation your dealer gets from Arcam so please keep us informed.

 

[Timbo21]

You get this if you burn a wav album onto CDR, but you shouldn't with proper CD Audio.

 

[Foghat]

Well, the official word from Arcam's technical support department, received via the dealer, is that this is perfectly normal. Apparently it is due to these CD players all now being fitted with DVD-drives rather than CD-drives, and somehow they can't read without pausing between tracks...?!! Seems a very strange explanation.

Amazing - gaps deliberately put into gapless music....on a £1,000 player. Gordon Bennett!

 

[Foghat]

You get this if you burn a wav album onto CDR, but you shouldn't with proper CD Audio.

Are you talking about the CD37 in particular or players generally?

Some computer CD-writing programs will keep music seamless on all the CD players I've used.

 

[spl23]

It can't possibly be that the player always inserts gaps - no manufacturer, least of all Arcam, would try to get away with that.

I wonder if it supports the function that used to be quite common on CD players in the 80s, of having a setting whereby it adds spaces between tracks so that when the album is copied to cassette, auto track detect works on the tape? It was usually turned on or off by a remote control code - it is possible that the CD37 includes this in its control logic as an undocumented feature, and the remote command to enable it was inadvertently sent by another remote used in the same room.

 

[Wag]

I own a CD 37. I have never noticed any extra gaps inserted between tracks.

I have just played my CD of Pink Floyd The Wall and the gapless tracks play perfectly.

Foghat....out of interest what CD were you trying to play?

 

[Foghat]

It can't possibly be that the player always inserts gaps - no manufacturer, least of all Arcam, would try to get away with that.

I wonder if it supports the function that used to be quite common on CD players in the 80s, of having a setting whereby it adds spaces between tracks so that when the album is copied to cassette, auto track detect works on the tape? It was usually turned on or off by a remote control code - it is possible that the CD37 includes this in its control logic as an undocumented feature, and the remote command to enable it was inadvertently sent by another remote used in the same room.

I did ask the dealer to investigate whether there are settings that can be adjusted to eliminate the gaps, as I agree it is extraordinary. I didn't speak to the technical people at Arcam directly, so don't know what was discussed in detail, but the dealer says that Arcam didn't even attempt to say "that's not right" but stated it was normal, for the reason given! Bizarre.

 

[Theo Maxtible]

Well, the official word from Arcam's technical support department, received via the dealer, is that this is perfectly normal. Apparently it is due to these CD players all now being fitted with DVD-drives rather than CD-drives, and somehow they can't read without pausing between tracks...?!! Seems a very strange explanation.

Amazing - gaps deliberately put into gapless music....on a £1,000 player. Gordon Bennett!

Mmmmmm! A very odd answer to your problem.

What doesn't quite add up, unless I'm overlooking the obvious, is that my DV137 DVD Player is able to play CDs exactly as they're meant to be heard, i.e. with gaps between tracks where applicable, or seamlessly for such discs, e.g. Dark Side of the Moon etc.

So my DV137 is a DVD player that can do this, but your CD player that has a DVD drive can't. Doesn't quite add up.

 

[Foghat]

I own a CD 37. I have never noticed any extra gaps inserted between tracks.

I have just played my CD of Pink Floyd The Wall and the gapless tracks play perfectly.

Foghat....out of interest what CD were you trying to play?

I got the impression that it has come about after a change in the type of drive that is installed in CD37s. Means nothing to me, though, as I don't really take an interest in the technical details of drives in players.

The CD was Europe '72 by The Grateful Dead.
If you know anything about this wondrous band, you'll be aware of the stunning, often beautiful segues that are played live between China Cat Sunflower and I Know You Rider. One CANNOT tolerate, under any circumstances, a gap in this segue, so you can imagine my horror when it happened and that repeated attempts showed the same error. To be honest, it was at closing time and I didn't have a great deal of time to try out various different seamless CDs, so maybe it's the particular CD, but as I said that CD is an offical release CD that has played (and still plays) perfectly on all my other CD players. And failure with that track sequence alone is a dealbreaker as its countless live versions are part of a Deadhead's musical raison d'etre!

I'm not sure the dealer has investigated this all that thoroughly.......

 

[Mark.Yudkin]

It sounds very weird. Classical music CDs with tracks used for access points within a longer piece of music are the norm, not the exception (a big problem with the track-based sales model of many download music sites). A CD37 that generally couldn't play classical CDs would have been something very well publicized as a major "do not touch" design blunder (like the early model DV137's failure to play mulitchannel SACD) in the standard magazines for classical CDs and would have earned reviews that could not be more damning, yet I've only ever seen rave reviews concerning the CD37 as a stereo SACD/CD in these sources. And with SACD replay primarily targetted at classical music lovers, such a design would make little sense.

Many, if not most, CD players cannot play program sequences gaplessly, making programming a serious problem. Did you try to create a program of just the tracks of interest?

 

[Foghat]

No, the tracks weren't programmed, Mark.

 

[Timbo21]

Can't be true, and if it is what a strange thing to do.

Pretty much all reviews will have been done in the first 12 months of the CD37's release.

And why would a DVD drive make this difference? DV139 has not had problems playing gapless.

I would call the Arcam main number and talk to technical support directly. "Dark Side of the Moon" is a good example to quote, since it's such a classic album, and would be crazy not to be able to hear it gapless.

 

[sounddog]

Were you playing the CD via the analogue outputs of the CD player or via digital into a AV reciever or processor?

If the latter some CD players drop their digital output momentarily between tracks meaning the AV reciever has to relock onto the signal and this can cause a momentary gap.

Eloise

 

[Theo Maxtible]

I got the impression that it has come about after a change in the type of drive that is installed in CD37s. Means nothing to me, though, as I don't really take an interest in the technical details of drives in players.

The CD was Europe '72 by The Grateful Dead.
If you know anything about this wondrous band, you'll be aware of the stunning, often beautiful segues that are played live between China Cat Sunflower and I Know You Rider. One CANNOT tolerate, under any circumstances, a gap in this segue, so you can imagine my horror when it happened and that repeated attempts showed the same error. To be honest, it was at closing time and I didn't have a great deal of time to try out various different seamless CDs, so maybe it's the particular CD, but as I said that CD is an offical release CD that has played (and still plays) perfectly on all my other CD players. And failure with that track sequence alone is a dealbreaker as its countless live versions are part of a Deadhead's musical raison d'etre!

I'm not sure the dealer has investigated this all that thoroughly.......

No, I wouldn't be sure that the dealer has investigated this thoroughly either.

It makes absolutely no sense to have a player that puts gaps between tracks where they're not intended - it just doesn't make sense. There must be some other recent CD37 owners with different experiences out there, surely?!

There must be some very happy CD37 owners for whom this issue is totally foreign. Pity you can't find another Arcam dealer where you can do more "tests".

 

[recruit]

If it is just purchased or in warranty I would just demand a new player as you are not satisfied with the one you have and does not work as specified.

 

[Len44]

I did ask the dealer to investigate whether there are settings that can be adjusted to eliminate the gaps, as I agree it is extraordinary. I didn't speak to the technical people at Arcam directly, so don't know what was discussed in detail, but the dealer says that Arcam didn't even attempt to say "that's not right" but stated it was normal, for the reason given! Bizarre.

I would hate to think that any dealer would be less than accurate in their reporting of a manufacturer's comments...

However, my recently purchased (well, about seven months ago) CD37 does not have the aforementioned "gap issue." Played the Alan Parsons Sirius / Eye In the Sky CD without a gap.

 

[Davieboy00]

Were you playing the CD via the analogue outputs of the CD player or via digital into a AV reciever or processor?

If the latter some CD players drop their digital output momentarily between tracks meaning the AV reciever has to relock onto the signal and this can cause a momentary gap.

Eloise

This one intrigued me so I did a bit of experimenting.
I have a CD37 used a transport connected via digital coax to a Bryston BP26 with DAC module fitted but it is also connected via analogue outs for SACD playback.
I tested with various CDs that are meant to be gapless and other stadard discs with gaps both via digital and analogue connections and can report that all gaps ( or lack of gaps ) are where they should be.
I know what you mean about a dropout at the start of tracks as I used to get this when using a Denon DV3910 universal player for SACD but it wasn't present with the CD37.
I agree with others that there sounds like there is a fault with the player and should be replaced.

 

[sounddog]

This one intrigued me so I did a bit of experimenting.
I have a CD37 used a transport connected via digital coax to a Bryston BP26 with DAC module fitted but it is also connected via analogue outs for SACD playback.

While the "gaps" were probably not the result of the CD37 was being used with digital connection to AV receiver, I'm sorry to say your test with the Bryston BP26 didn't prove anything.

Your Bryston will be only capable of decoding PCM to analogue, therefore it doesn't have to listen and work out what format the digital stream is being sent in. An AV receiver when it finds a new digital stream has to work out if this is PCM, DD or DTS - in some receivers this results in loosing up to a second or two of audio from the start of each track. With some CD players the digital output is stopped each time a track is changed which means this negotiation has to be carried out at each new track.

Eloise

 

[Davieboy00]

Didn't even think about that. Was just thinking digital signals and not the processing involved
Thanks for pointing it out.
Everyone else , please disregard my findings

 

[Foghat]

Thanks for all the comments.

I think the player was connected by the digital output rather than analogue, but didn't personally check the cables or receiver settings.

sounddog's idea that it occurred due to the digital output being dropped seems the most likely explanation. Given that most players don't exhibit this problem, it seems daft that it wasn't designed out of the player, especially at that price.

I haven't actually purchased it - only auditioned it, but I don't feel very inclined to pursue this player any further. Perhaps if Arcam had a contact phone no. on the website, so I could personally speak to them about it, I would try a bit harder. Maybe the fault was in the receiver used in the audition, but it shouldn't be necessary for me to resolve such a daft problem in a £1,000 player/setup, and the indirect response I did get leaves me very disinclined to deal with Arcam, so it looks like my money will be going elsewhere.

But thanks to all for taking the time to contribute.

 

[brahms]

You haven't spoken to Arcam directly so why do you trust what your dealer told you when no owner of a CD37 on this forum has stated they have a similar problem? The CD37 is a very fine player for the money. Why not try another dealer and demo there? Be a shame to miss out on a great piece of equipment due to one unfortunate engagement with one member of staff in a hifi shop who may. or may not, know what they are talking about! Anyway, whatever you decide hope it works out for you.

 

[Foghat]

Well, I figured, perhaps unreasonably, that with a prospective £1,000 sale on the cards, in a post-recession, the dealer might have put sufficient effort into the sale to have actually spoken to Arcam's Technical Department as promised. If he was that keen not to make the sale, he could have simply not phoned me with the specific 'explanation', rather than possibly inventing Arcam's crackpot supposed response himself. He even discussed it with the boss who concurred that "this is what these players do".

The apparent explanation from Arcam stated that it applied to the latest version of the player because of some recent change in the type of drive installed, so the fact that readers of this thread don't report the same problem is interesting but not necessarily conclusive.

If I happen to pass another Arcam dealer with one in stock, I will try again, but I won't be going out of my way to visit one (and I would need to, the nearest being 15 miles away). I think I'd rather have a Sony XA5400ES anyway, but these don't seem to be available any more. This episode means I may just keep going with what I've got until the Sonys become available again, or until something else grabs my attention. Or I could spend the money on music, which of course is far more interesting!

Thanks for the interest, though.

 

[sounddog]

Thanks for all the comments.
Perhaps if Arcam had a contact phone no. on the website, so I could personally speak to them about it, I would try a bit harder. Maybe the fault was in the receiver used in the audition, but it shouldn't be necessary for me to resolve such a daft problem in a £1,000 player/setup, and the indirect response I did get leaves me very disinclined to deal with Arcam, so it looks like my money will be going elsewhere.

Have you tried the contact (email) form on the Arcam website... Contact Arcam I would mention in it the name of the dealer who gave you the dubious advise.

A quick google search also found me this...
A & R Cambridge Ltd, t/a ARCAM
Denny Industrial Centre
Pembroke Avenue
Waterbeach
Cambridge
Cambridgeshire
CB25 9QR

Tel: +44 (0)1223 203200
Fax: +44 (0)1223 863384
Email: [email protected]

You're right that it shouldn't be your responsibility, but sounds like the problem is with the dealer not with Arcam.

Eloise

 

[onthebeach]

Weird. I had a 37 for over 12 months and it never missed a beat. It certainly never put unwanted gaps between songs. Sounds like a faulty dealer