CD36 or

H

Houston Texas

Guest
I am considering adding a dedicated CD player to my system, which currently includes a DV79 and AVR300. Any opinions regarding the CD36 vs Ayre CD7X?
 

boxerboy

Standard Member
I've recently added a CD36 to my dedicated two-channel system and I couldn't be happier. I did not consider the Ayre since I'm such a great fan of the Arcam sound. I don't feel like there is any more music on a disc when I play it.
 
H

Houston Texas

Guest
Does anyone have any experience (and comments) with using a CD36 with an AVR 300? And in particular, in comparison with say a CD 192 with the AVR 300, bearing in mind that this is to improve CD quality from an existing DV79 with AVR 300.
 

oceanrower

Novice Member
The AVR300 is great for music - but not a worldclass 2-channel performer, though very strong it is..!

The AVR300 will manage to give you a high increase in soundquality if you add the CD36. If you increase the quality of your amp - the increase will be even further (depending on cables, cd´s played, speakers, listeningroom etc..).

It is always worth to pay a lot for the source component as all the rest equipment will bennefit from it. I would recommend it if you can afford it and you feel that the sound difference between the CD192 and the CD36 is worth it. They sound very similar, it is just more space and more details in the CD36. But you do pay A LOT to get very little gain in sound. Would I pay the extra bucks? Yes but only as I have heard how good it can be - and would not be happy with anything less. But thats' me..
 

tvh3ad

Novice Member
Houston Texas said:
Does anyone have any experience (and comments) with using a CD36 with an AVR 300? And in particular, in comparison with say a CD 192 with the AVR 300, bearing in mind that this is to improve CD quality from an existing DV79 with AVR 300.
I had the AVR300/CD36 for about six months before I switched to an AV9/P7. Yes, the CD36 was definitely a sonic improvement over the DV27A/CD72 when used with the AVR300 (in direct mode) . I did compare the CD36 to the CD192 before choosing the 36 but at my dealer's shop via whatever equipment they had set up rather than at home via the AVR. That said, I assume the differences between the two players I heard in the shop would still have been evident on the AVR to some degree.

The CD36 is a really nice machine and will sound great through the AVR...and it'll sound even better if you ever decide to upgrade your preamp/power amp.
 
H

Houston Texas

Guest
Thanks - sounds like a logical step is to add the CD36 now (after auditioning at home vs. the 192 and the Ayre machine which I am also considering), then upgrade the amplification.
 

cjohnson6

Novice Member
I tried the cd192 and cd36 at home... I went for the cd36... to me the differences were like night and day. I'm a happy camper with this little box of goodies. :thumbsup:
 

haimoc

Standard Member
If you decide to go with Ayre CX-7, make sure you'd get the later version which is Ayre CX-7e. This is a very excelent CD player with extra balance XLR output.
 
D

dazza1080p

Guest
Houston Texas said:
Does anyone have any experience (and comments) with using a CD36 with an AVR 300? And in particular, in comparison with say a CD 192 with the AVR 300, bearing in mind that this is to improve CD quality from an existing DV79 with AVR 300.
There pretty good but the sound quality you get with a decent amp and speakers isn't no better than what you can get with a normal bi amp all in 1 hi-fi from panasonic i.e model SA-AK340 which is 420 watts and sound quality is stunning and extremely loud with no distortion at all and only a mere fraction of the cost of what a full seperates system would cost.
 
H

Houston Texas

Guest
I will start auditioning all three - CD36, CD192 and the Ayre CX-7E at home and report back. My plan is indeed to upgrade the amplification some time later. FYI, I have Dynaudio speakers all round including sub.
 

cjohnson6

Novice Member
dazza1080p said:
There pretty good but the sound quality you get with a decent amp and speakers isn't no better than what you can get with a normal bi amp all in 1 hi-fi from panasonic i.e model SA-AK340 which is 420 watts and sound quality is stunning and extremely loud with no distortion at all and only a mere fraction of the cost of what a full seperates system would cost.
Choke!!
 
H

Houston Texas

Guest
cjohnson6 said:
'nuff said......

BTW: I wonder why you added the P90/3 as well as the CD36. Am I missing something here?
 

Crustyloafer

Distinguished Member
dazza1080p said:
There pretty good but the sound quality you get with a decent amp and speakers isn't no better than what you can get with a normal bi amp all in 1 hi-fi from panasonic i.e model SA-AK340 which is 420 watts and sound quality is stunning and extremely loud with no distortion at all and only a mere fraction of the cost of what a full seperates system would cost.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

That is the funniest thing I've read all week. Thank you Dazza, you made my day.
 
D

dazza1080p

Guest
cjohnson6 said:
Well i suppose it depends what the listener considers good quality or if he/she can notice the difference i.e if their a audiophile or not but it also depends on the room your system is in. You could have a perfect system but you won't notice the difference because the room lets the system down where as another listener could be in a better listening environment but with a £150 420 watt all in mini 1 hi-fi and get simillar results. Besides all in 1 systems have improved dramaticly in the last 5 years. Its only recently that mini hi-fi's have become available with 420 watt plus amps. Now most people including myself dont take the volume higher than the mid ranges so why would people spend £1500 on seperates and speakers. Bottom line is the 10-15% extra quality you may be able to detect with seperates isn't worth XX amount of grands more cash.
 

KenX

Standard Member
This is an impossible discussion.
It is absolutely impossible to rate audio in relative percentage terms.
Tell me how to measure that system A sounds 10-15% better than system B, and tell me a blind test with real people that would show that people think that system a is 10-15% better than system B.
In addition, this difference cannot be mapped to a price/value difference, since it is entirely individual how much you think something is worth.
I think there is an enormous difference between any boombox and my system, and I'm willing to pay quite a bit for that. I'm not willing to pay twice as much to get something that is even better though, and than it doesn't matter how good it really gets.
If you are happy with a boombox, that is fine with me.
Btw, power in terms of watts is really an awfully bad measure of sound quality and I really thought this died out 10-15 years ago.
One of the nicest little amplifiers I've had was a Naim Nait. At 2x8W it punched my speakers for 3-4 years and I had a great time with it.


dazza1080p said:
Well i suppose it depends what the listener considers good quality or if he/she can notice the difference i.e if their a audiophile or not but it also depends on the room your system is in. You could have a perfect system but you won't notice the difference because the room lets the system down where as another listener could be in a better listening environment but with a £150 420 watt all in mini 1 hi-fi and get simillar results. Besides all in 1 systems have improved dramaticly in the last 5 years. Its only recently that mini hi-fi's have become available with 420 watt plus amps. Now most people including myself dont take the volume higher than the mid ranges so why would people spend £1500 on seperates and speakers. Bottom line is the 10-15% extra quality you may be able to detect with seperates isn't worth XX amount of grands more cash.
 

glenann

Active Member
First off, no way will a Panasonic all in one produce 420 watts! End of. As for it sounding as good as seperates...... use a cotton bud and clear out the years of thick hard yellow stuff.

Secondly, the Ayre should walk all over the CD36! But there's no way of knowing until you here it in your system. Plus the fact both cd's at that level deserve a dedicated 2 channel amp, not a home cinema amp.

Even though the Ayre has balanced outputs, you can't use them into an AVR300 anyway.



Personnal opinions rule!
 
H

Houston Texas

Guest
Good point regarding the dedicated 2 channel amp for such a player - and this is the reason for posting the question in the first place, as I do not intend to have such a dedicated 2 channel set-up.

After discussing with my local dealer yesterday, I have decided to wait for the DV29 FMJ replacement, which hopefully will not be too long, and to do the various comparisons in my system at that time.
 

lpm

Novice Member
Houston,

I think that a new FMJ is probably the most balanced approach if you don't wish to add a dedicated stereo set-up.

As to cheaper alternatives, I think any such watts quoted are Peak Music Power ones, about half the value of real watts. Admittedly getting a complete system for $70 is tempting for my always deficient budget and fitting it all on one shelf would save a lot of hassle with my wife :).
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/ele/197027528.html
 
D

dazza1080p

Guest
KenX said:
This is an impossible discussion.
It is absolutely impossible to rate audio in relative percentage terms.
Tell me how to measure that system A sounds 10-15% better than system B, and tell me a blind test with real people that would show that people think that system a is 10-15% better than system B.
In addition, this difference cannot be mapped to a price/value difference, since it is entirely individual how much you think something is worth.
I think there is an enormous difference between any boombox and my system, and I'm willing to pay quite a bit for that. I'm not willing to pay twice as much to get something that is even better though, and than it doesn't matter how good it really gets.
If you are happy with a boombox, that is fine with me.
Btw, power in terms of watts is really an awfully bad measure of sound quality and I really thought this died out 10-15 years ago.
One of the nicest little amplifiers I've had was a Naim Nait. At 2x8W it punched my speakers for 3-4 years and I had a great time with it.
I mention 10-15% as a estimate of the quality difference i can hear but to be honest its more like 10% but i play most of my tunes in mp3 through my pc which is conected up to my hi-fi. Sir i do not have a bombox or anything like it i have a high end sound system which delivers high quality sound performance when i say all in one i mean mini system the speakers are seperate from the actual unit. Also i'm speaking 420 watts rms not PMPO. You would be very surprised how rich the base is on my panasonic SA-AK340 it shakes my sofas at only the mid ranges volume goes upto 50 i tend to stay at 25 unless i'm feeling energetic i have been known to take it up to 33 and the sound quality it truely stunning it never distorts. I think you must be judging mini systems made about 10 years ago with your seperates of today. Have you ever heard a modern up to date mini hi-fi which is atleast 420 watts rms rated? With denon, pioneer, technics etc you do pay a premium for the brand name as they are dedicated audio manufactures however having said that panasonic and technics are the same company owned by matsu****a. Technics implement their audio knowledge in the panasonic mini hi-fi lines. Seperates are most definately over priced because of the brand names and becuase ofcourse their seperate. How do you think Denon can get away with charging £300 for the DM33 40 watt "boombox" they make? which doesn't even have DAB. Panasonic would never charge £300 for a 40 watt system and i gaurantee the panasonic SA-AK340 is better in everyway than the DENON DM33.
 

lpm

Novice Member
Come on Bails fair go; you know that all amps, CD players and cables sound the same. So why wouldn’t an MP3 file be as good as an AIFF one? You need a double blind test to prove this one mate.:)

Joking aside, the mind boggles – shaken to death at half power eh. You wouldn’t want to be eating jelly on the sofa while the 1812 was playing. And just imagine what Bose 901’s would do with 18 drivers per pair and 420 watts to play with. I need to review my goals a little.:D
 

Crustyloafer

Distinguished Member
dazza1080p said:
I mention 10-15% as a estimate of the quality difference i can hear but to be honest its more like 10% but i play most of my tunes in mp3 through my pc which is conected up to my hi-fi. Sir i do not have a bombox or anything like it i have a high end sound system which delivers high quality sound performance when i say all in one i mean mini system the speakers are seperate from the actual unit. Also i'm speaking 420 watts rms not PMPO. You would be very surprised how rich the base is on my panasonic SA-AK340 it shakes my sofas at only the mid ranges volume goes upto 50 i tend to stay at 25 unless i'm feeling energetic i have been known to take it up to 33 and the sound quality it truely stunning it never distorts. I think you must be judging mini systems made about 10 years ago with your seperates of today. Have you ever heard a modern up to date mini hi-fi which is atleast 420 watts rms rated? With denon, pioneer, technics etc you do pay a premium for the brand name as they are dedicated audio manufactures however having said that panasonic and technics are the same company owned by matsu****a. Technics implement their audio knowledge in the panasonic mini hi-fi lines. Seperates are most definately over priced because of the brand names and becuase ofcourse their seperate. How do you think Denon can get away with charging £300 for the DM33 40 watt "boombox" they make? which doesn't even have DAB. Panasonic would never charge £300 for a 40 watt system and i gaurantee the panasonic SA-AK340 is better in everyway than the DENON DM33.
Can you guys believe that he is actually talking about one of these:

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/ele/197027528.html

I think we have a troll on our hands. :laugh:
 

Baltika_no_9

Standard Member
dazza1080p said:
There pretty good but the sound quality you get with a decent amp and speakers isn't no better than what you can get with a normal bi amp all in 1 hi-fi from panasonic i.e model SA-AK340 which is 420 watts and sound quality is stunning and extremely loud with no distortion at all ......................
No distortion at all??

The Panasonic site quotes a figure of 10% THD for this thing.

http://www.panasonic.ca/english/audiovideo/audio/audioentertain/scak340.asp

http://www.panasonic.ca/english/audiovideo/audio/audioentertain/specs_mini.asp

Somewhat bizarrely, they've forgotten to use the term "hifi" in their description. It does clearly state however that there's 420 Watts RMS on tap....and a power consumption of only 125W.
 

Crustyloafer

Distinguished Member
Baltika_no_9 said:
No distortion at all??

The Panasonic site quotes a figure of 10% THD for this thing.

http://www.panasonic.ca/english/audiovideo/audio/audioentertain/scak340.asp

http://www.panasonic.ca/english/audiovideo/audio/audioentertain/specs_mini.asp

Somewhat bizarrely, they've forgotten to use the term "hifi" in their description. It does clearly state however that there's 420 Watts RMS on tap....and a power consumption of only 125W.
Quite clearly Panasonic have developed technology that can muster up the extra 295 Watts out of thin air. I'm surprised they haven't developed this further, it would solve all of the worlds energy problems. On that subject however, you may be interested to read about a company that is claiming to have done just this, create energy from nothing, very interesting indeed, look forward to seeing the results:

http://www.steorn.net/en/technology.aspx?p=5

10% THD, that's atrocious - combined with MP3 playback which only has 10% of the original information on a CD does that mean that there is 100% THD when playing back MP3s?
 

TransientWolf

Novice Member
Ignoring the laughable comments by Dazza and returning to the serious topic at hand......!

re dedicated 2 channel for CD36. Don't Arcam say their AV9 is the best 2 channel preamp they have made? I use a DV29 for CD replay at the moment through an AV9/P7 bi-amped to PMC FB1+'s. I have also thought about when to make the upgrade to a CD36 for dedicated CD replay but wonder how much difference I will really notice between the DV29 and the CD36?

Could wait and see what the DV29 replacement is like but suspect like the DV137 it will be more about adding 1080p upscaling which I don't need as I use a VP. Suspect CD replay will not increase significantly although would likely add SACD (assuming they resolve the 5.1 SACD problems).

TW
 

Crustyloafer

Distinguished Member
TransientWolf said:
Don't Arcam say their AV9 is the best 2 channel preamp they have made?
The C31 is the best 2 channel preamp they have made so far.

TransientWolf said:
how much difference I will really notice between the DV29 and the CD36?
You'll only find out by listening to one. I myself own the CD36 and DV29 and the difference is quite noticeable to me.

TransientWolf said:
(assuming they resolve the 5.1 SACD problems)
They will.
 

TransientWolf

Novice Member
Thanks Crusty - so from your experience if staying all Arcam a CD36 would offer a good improvement whilst a CD36 and a C31 would be the best solution (any views on how much better the C31 is over the AV9?).
 

Crustyloafer

Distinguished Member
TransientWolf said:
Thanks Crusty - so from your experience if staying all Arcam a CD36 would offer a good improvement whilst a CD36 and a C31 would be the best solution (any views on how much better the C31 is over the AV9?).
Yes, in my humble opinion the CD36 is quite a bit better than the DV29 for CD replay.

Ideally the C31 would be the best option for a two channel only system but the AV9 is pretty good. The C31 offers superior performance in the following ways:

Stereo Imaging and Separation
Clearer crisper top end and faster tighter bass response
Lower noise floor
 

tvh3ad

Novice Member
Crustyloafer said:
Yes, in my humble opinion the CD36 is quite a bit better than the DV29 for CD replay.
I'll second that but in relation to the 27A rather than the 29. The 27A is no slouch at CD playback but the 36 is in another league altogether. I have the same setup as you (minus the biamping and with different speakers) and the CD36 is really amazing -- I've quit listening to LPs altogether.
 

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