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Carmakes view on XBOX360

Discussion in 'Xbox Forums' started by gandley, Aug 16, 2005.

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  1. gandley

    gandley
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    Interesting articule from mr DOOM carmack, where he describes current xbox360 and PS£ performance figures all hype, and when the dust settles will only be as good as Current PC`s but at lower FPS(frames per second).
    So keep that PC afterall

    also some other interesting stuff like games not going to run at full 60FPS on the next generation and that running all games at 720p may NOT be possible!!

    OH well, the bombshell had to fall sooner or later. :thumbsdow

    http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?...s&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=169&page=1

    there are other quotes from different sources so have a peak around for the full low down as this is starting to spread like fire across the net.
     
  2. captaineyecatch

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    Read the Full comments He isnt really Slagging off the 360,Ps3.

     
  3. Kopite4Ever

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    not a chance im fed up of spending £1000 a new state of the art pc system only to be superceeded a month or so down the line. you get your 1k system i will get my £209 xbox that can match it. pc's for me always had the Resolution,AA support and online gaming over a console and thats why i kept with them. now the consoles have bridged that gap and passed it in some respects there isnt not as much need for a pc nowadays.
     
  4. gandley

    gandley
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    who said he was?? LOL calm down fanboys :rolleyes: Im not praising the PC over the consoles

    well we can dream i guess, but give it six mths and PC`s will again outpass the consoles and no the consoles dont even come close if there not hitting 60fps.
    Not knocking them as i will buy an xbox360 just for dead ar alive 4.
    (which did do 60fps on xbox i think), just i am not buying into all the hype as many did with the PS2 only to find the dreamcast had better graphics!!

    different type of machines with different gaming focus. so dont take it personaly.

    Nice price though.

    1K a year is not a big deal, its only 2 weeks wages

    xbox360 lifespan will be 5yrs, in five yrs think where a pc will be in terms of performance?

    each to there own but i`ll take both thanks

    I.D have just woken up to the fact that they probaly can make more money selling console games and not just PC games.

    Im realy liking the xbox360 myself, just i realize i will still need my PC for fast paced FPS etc
     
  5. Miyazaki

    Miyazaki
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    IMHO it is bull when anyone says pcs are better than consoles.

    Completely different architecture, you just can't compare the two.

    Pc games are scalable, and therefore, can never really push the boat out in graphical terms. I have half-life 2 and run everything on full on my laptop, and it runs smoothly. The graphics look rubbish compared to the likes of PGR3 and DOA4.
     
  6. gandley

    gandley
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    except we havent got pgr in front of us to play (so who knows what the finished product will be like) and again its not currently running at 60fps, which while not the end of the world would be nice.

    Cant say i agree with your laptop claim as thats pure crap, try running HL2
    with a 7800GTX (aka PS3 chip kinda) maxed out in super aa mode and 16x ani filtering. and running at a good 60fps (fx 57)
    Laptops are crap if you are a serious gamer, would not even consider it.
    So your comparison is very, well, poor to be polite.
    i doubt the xbox360 would do unreal 2004 at the pace a good not great PC would.

    but until i have a xbox360 in my grubby mitts its all pi** and wind

    Laptop...HAHAHA, good one

    So unreal 2004 never pushed the boat out in terms of graphics, and funny that sony has licenced the unreal engine for there machine because it does push out the boudaries in graphics.
    I just dont see your reasoning with that load of tot.
     
  7. Bonesy

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    gandley, isn't there a PC gaming forum you should be hanging around in?
     
  8. Kopite4Ever

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    quotes like that are abit pathetic and will only anger some.

    fanboy was aimed at me and i assure you im far from it. i owned pc's ninty's sony's and xbox so im not biased in anyway.

    2weeks wages eh ? nice someone can splash cash like that but i can speak for 99% of the forumites when i say we have other commitments than just gaming. households,children,cars to uphold etc so 2 weeks wages is alot of money for most. stupid comments like that make laugh
     
  9. captaineyecatch

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    Whats all this about Frames per second?? Only Pc fanboys worry about that - Overclocking so they can squeeze an extra 8 frames per second :rolleyes:
    A Tv can only do 60 frames a second anyway cant it? So why worry about frame rates - 30 frames constant is alot better than 60 frames that slow down to 30 when its busy etc. Look at Pc games(for example) they may run 100+ Fps but then suddenly drop to 60 frames while Hd is caching or something? It looks crap. I would rather have a rock solid 30 fps.
    Also remember all the current games are only Launch games - So 60fps should be easy to get to come the 2nd gen of games.
     
  10. frozendexter

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    Quite right! who cares about frames per second, I’m more worried about game play!

    Don’t forget that 35mm films only at run at 24 FPS, but motion blur on fast moving objects compensates slightly for this.

    I work in computers, have a “Gaming Rig” but prefer games on console. All you have to do is insert game, switch on, turn on large wide screen and 5.1 speaker system (if you’ve got it), pick up your nice wireless ergonomic controller and have fun. :thumbsup:

    No waiting for it to start up :thumbsdow (yes I know you can use stand by), downloading new drivers :thumbsdow , installing the game, then having to download patches for the game because it was released unfinished or full of bugs :thumbsdow (look at the BF2 patch cock up).

    The other problem with PC’s is the lack of game formats. If you don’t want to play FPS’s or real time strategy your choices are pretty limited, and when a console conversion is released for PC it seems the PC game press automatically see it as inferior and slag it off (GTA being the exception, still plays better on a PS2 & Xbox though).

    A friend has just two weeks ago spent £1,300 on parts for a new games pc, yet it's no more powerfull than a £279 console! I know where my money's going.
     
  11. Shin Akuma

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    In cricket we use the term Allrounder, Andrew flintoff is an all rounder i.e. he can bat and he bowl as well, that is what PC are like all rounder but an all rounder wouldn't be able to bat better (score runs frequently)then a genuine batsman or may be wouldn't be able to bowl like genuine bowler. Consoles are genuine gaming machines these will do gaming because these are made for gamig, PC can do more things like an allrounder but it is upto owner what purpose it is bought for. I got PC and I don't use it for gaming.
    PC are without a doubt are evolving more quickly then consoles so PC do over take console eventualy but ease of use is important thing and consoles are more stable things for games, PC are only good for gaming if you dish out lot money every 6 months time to make most of PC games which I am personally not prepare to do, because I know that thing is again in 6 month time will become like obselete. PC gaming is costly.
     
  12. Mickus

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    Q. How many game engines has he written for a multicore processers?

    A. Probably none!
     
  13. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    I agree, personally I can no longer warrant £500 - £1000 per annum spend on new PC hardware just so that it can play the latest games. £250ish for a console that lasts 4-5 years on the other hand is easily affordable. The fact that a consoles hardware is geared and dedicated to gaming means that it is capable of so much more than the equivallent PC hardware. Just take the X-Box...this has what is effectively a P3 750mhz and a souped up GF3 graphics card. OK PC games have now overtaken X-Box games in terms of quality but graphically games like Forza and Halo2 are still superb by today's standards. Infact I much prefer the graphics in Forza to those in GTR which look clinical and lifeless to me - See the screenshots below (courtesy of Gamespot):-

    Forza
    [​IMG]

    GTR
    [​IMG]

    Raw power isn't everything and a vast proportion of the power a PC possesses is rarely fully utilised for games. I used to be a big PC gamer but console gaming has evolved over the last couple of generations. I personally feel that consoles will take more market share this time around with the PC's share decreasing.
     
  14. gandley

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    Well i am still NOT knocking the xbox360 god dammit, whats wrong with some of you, i just preorderd one and i will know doubt have an PS3 as well. Hell i bought an xbox on release day. I am A gamer absolute. I cant help that the PC has delivered the best experience for me personally.
    If you lot want to be so narrow minded carry on, i for one wont be. If the xbox360 delivers the best ever gaming experience then i will be thrilled.
    But until release this is all just opinion. and quite frankly some of your reasoning is so childish its untrue (not all).

    Frames per second is very important, that harks back to the days of the megadrive and snes. Play the usa version of the game and it ran at full speed play the PAL version and it was slugish and just awful. So if you want the best experience game speed is more important than fancy images (well if you are a proper gamer, and not a after pub half cut type player) even on consoles.

    I want the xbox360 to deliver, but i know deep down i will still need the PC for some types of games.


    If you want all the fancy bells and whistles then the game is going to take a performance hit, just like the PC.

    PC will rule first person shooters, and strategy games. xbox360, PS3 will rule beat em ups, and driving games, and shoot em ups(not FPS) and the usual tat thats always consoles

    There will come a time when the PC will loose its appeal, maybe PS4, xbox whatever will push the envelop enough where visuals are no longer the holy grail
     
  15. gandley

    gandley
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    So whats your point??

    I have a family, I own my house, i run two cars. and a motorbike etc etc etc.
    My wife and I both work. etc etc.
    Maybe you should look for a new career direction if its not delivering

    Any how lighten up for goodness sake, this is just a forum. Why take it so to heart :suicide:
     
  16. Kopite4Ever

    Kopite4Ever
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    your comment was
    to me it is a big deal. ive just finished uni this summer and im looking for my first real job. i have a 16 thousand pound debt to pay on top of all this. so maybe just maybe a 1000 pound a year to some is a hell of alot of money, im not arguing totally with the statement. if you can afford 1k a year every year to constantly keep the pc at a competitive level then good luck, but it was the wording of your phrase that annoyed me because my friend 1000 pounds is a big deal. thats all i hopefully will say on the matter
    think you will find your arguments are not much better
     
  17. gandley

    gandley
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    shall i get my violin now?? :rotfl:

    No, i made a reasonable thread where individuals jumped into defensive mode to protect there view of something they haven't even seen yet or played with, does that sound like a reasonable adult view? coz i don't see it like that.

    However my comment about 1K was not meant to sound elitist and for that you have my apology :oops: .

    Good luck with the job search...happy hunting
     
  18. Miyazaki

    Miyazaki
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    My laptop runs hl2 at 16xanisotropic, and max aa fine.

    I can never understand gamers going on about fps. The eye cannot detect anything above 25fps, so it is totally pointless. You obviously have something missing in your life if you **** money against the wall like you do.

    I didn't get my laptop for games, i got it for work, it just happens to run games fantastically well
     
  19. gandley

    gandley
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    you done now??
    coz its getting a bit tedious.

    More to the point i DONT have anything missing in my life, hence why i can pour money away as i please.

    anyhow back on topic
     
  20. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    The topic is Carmack's views on the 360. If discussion surronding those views was not present then this thread would be 1 post long??

    In your first post you state -
    This states that Carmack's view is that performance figures for the 360 & PS3 are hyped and will only be as good as current PC's but with a lower FPS. You then suggest that we keep our PC's instead.

    That comment clearly opens up a discussion relating to the potential performance of the 360/PS3 vs PC's. The thread has therefore continued on topic so I don't understand where you feel it has strayed?
     
  21. gandley

    gandley
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    No i suggest it may be worth keeping the PC as well ( i.e get the xbox 360 and keep the PC!!). Get of defense ***.

    I am not biased towards PC, i am biased towards gaming. I want the 360 to deliver.

    If you don't see where its strayed then may i suggest you read slower and ponder, because most seem to be flaming me on assumption of what you think i meant and not what i meant. Perhaps i need to post in smaller words and be extremely precise. :rolleyes:

    So hopefully that clears that up. I would not reccommend anyone to soly game with a console or a PC if you want have a great gaming experience.

    But many are hyping these consoles as PC killers, which in truth would be nice. Far less hassle as someone already posted. I would be well up for that.

    But in reality, this may not be the case this time round. Not until maybe games can fully exploit multithreading, which as carmack and others have mentioned, multicores dont realy benefit games all that much even if programmed with multi core in mind.

    Now i have seen the PGR screens like every one else and they are awesome,
    but is that an actual xbox360 image taken from an HDTV, or is the image whipped direct from the dev kits running on power pc`s or whatever they use?.

    We have been burnt many times before with images, and "hey this is what it will look like on your TV", blag blag. And my god i hope PGR will deliver these visuals on my Sim2 projector at 720p, could be truly awesome. as long as it dosent chugg along. 30 fps is not enough for it will feel a little slow.
    60FPS on consoles is gaming nirvana, forget what a PC can do it dosent matter as long as the console is running at 60FPS. that my personal opinion, nothing carved in stone. I guess it just comes from the days of playing streetfighter 2 at NTSC speed and then getting the cropped PAL slower version, which just plain sucked in comparison. 60HZ pal was a godsend when used.(used as a comparison). stupidly high FPS are pointless, i think my PC does quake 3 at around 500fps when benchmarked which is, quite rightly stupid. hence why there is a lock to constant 60fps.
    Any developer will tell you 60fps is an ideal figure, anything less not so good, anything more whats the point.
    so if you max all your setting with AA etc and still do solid 60fps thats what counts, not if it will do 160fps.(unless your an overclocking freak)
     
  22. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    Thank you, but I am capable of reading at normal speeds just like i'm sure you are. Perhaps the fact that "most seem to be flaming" you is perhaps an indication that you haven't explained yourself correctly. Or perhaps we all have trouble with our reading?

    The debate regarding High end PC's vs the New consoles is an interesting one and i'm sure that we can all conduct an intellegent conversation without inflamatory comments.

    One pointer would be to not come out with comments like "£1k is only 2 weeks wages". It may be to some (i.e. people earning £26k or over) but not everyone earns this figure and therefore it will naturally take them many more weeks wages to afford this sum. Also it's not how much you earn as such, but more your disposable income. Generally if you have a mortgage, family and other commitments you have a limited budget, often with little or no disposable income. Saving £1k up then becomes a lot harder, especially when there are numerous other contenders for that income, such as children, holidays, going out etc.

    You say that you are not biased towards PC's, yet the way your posts are written screams otherwise. I don't deny that you do want these consoles to succeed though and the problem seems to be more in how you came across as to what you actually believe. My advice would simply be to consider how you deliver your post more and this will hopefully avoid you being flamed in the future. :smashin:
     
  23. Kopite4Ever

    Kopite4Ever
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    gandly i wasnt going to get drawn in and frankly i dont care if i get banned for this but your an arrogant [mod edit]. you seem to be talking down to people get off your [mod edit] pedestal will ya. you wouldnt talk down to someone like this in a street because they'd knock your head off. you seem to be a keyboard warrior completely and i never ever post like this i assure you but you have irritated 3 people in one small thread. ive never had a problem with your posts in the past so whats all this about ? CAS is there a button for me to not see this guys posts in future ?

    dont matter ive found it in his profile i can ignore him. your my first and hopefully last person thats on it. cant believe ive done it tbh this is the best community ive ever been a part of and im in a few others that i dont visit often because this place is great, but sadly imo spoilt by a really small minority
     
  24. gandley

    gandley
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    Hehe
    Nice. no need to be banned you are entitled to your limited view point.

    You just finished uni and thats the level of your intelligence. wow they do breed them thick these days.
    So you think i cant back up my words in action!!
    Im not a little nerdy idiot fresh out of uni who thinks only his opinion counts, but go ahead have your tantrum in fact have two, and please ignore me, i wont have to put up with your poxy replys anymore.
    I could turn all your last comments straight back at you. You were the one who got a beef in the first place....GROW UP!!
    or put up if you think i am just a keyboard warrior.( nice term though)

    I think if we came face to face you would back down very quickly let me assure you. perhaps thats why i am arrogont. or in truth dominant.

    Case Fan

    points taken onboard, i guess if you mention Xbox360 and PC one has to be extra carefull.
    Well i have a morgage etc etc, regardless this being the avforums does in some part attract those with more disposable income. My statment was not ment to offend as i thought it was quite a broad sum as many here were saying they have a PC etc. I dont consider £500 per week that good to be honest, so i will be more carefull so as not to offend the weak minded.
    But then would you buy a PC every 2 weeks, so one needs to keep it in the context of the reply.

    It only takes one to start a flame the rest just jump on the bandwagon. I tried to make it clear in the next few posts i was not slagging the Xbox 360. but that went unnoticed.

    Perhaps my view comes over the way it does because as of right now the PC does provide the best gaming experience. more in regards multiplayer, and modding etc.
    Hopefully later this year the gap will further narrow or even close.

    well after nearly 2000 posts thats the first person to go off on one. maybe i just hit a nerve....or two :devil:

    But i will hold out the olive leaf and beg for your forgivness and apologize for any offense that has been taken or givin.
    Please let us continue our discussion with its focus firmly on the Xbox360 and not on individuals lifes or financial positions.
    Im sure we are all adult enough to let water pass under the bridge and continue in peace as lovers of games
    :thumbsup:
     
  25. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    I don't think that there's any need for anyone to get banned here, but i've edited your post Kopite as simulating swear words is not allowed (especially when used in an aggressive tone).

    You are both valued members of the forum who have been posting for some time but we can't be having this posts of this tone. People are always going to see things differently and whilst interesting debate is good - arguments of this nature are bad.

    I think everyone has said all they need to on this and feel that this thread should be closed now.

    Oh and Gandley - i'm not a plastic cooling device as found inside PC towers i.e. a Case Fan ;) :D ....Cas Fan in future please.
     
  26. gandley

    gandley
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    ooops, MY bad. SIR cas fan
     
  27. Kopite4Ever

    Kopite4Ever
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    i would like to apologise to the forums as a whole. i dont mean to bring the tone of the place down and i can only say sorry. i came to bait and i shouldnt have so i can only again apologise.

    i know i wont see eye to eye with all but ive never argue'd with anyone on here and i hope i dont again, but you never know because im a little nerdy idiot fresh out of uni who thinks only his opinion counts and im bread really thick :thumbsup: thats spot on :rolleyes:
     
  28. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    apologies accepted - I think we'll leave it at that.

    Thread closed.
     
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