Care home deaths exceed those in hospitals

ufo550

Well-known Member
I've come across this thread, and it is troubled reading. However I'd just like to add something from the other side. I'll be careful what I say, as my employer might not like the disclosure, but I think they would, if you'll see what I mean.

I work in a Care Home, not as a carer, who do a difficult but brilliant job. I think we have had some COVID related deaths, but not the % referred to in this thread. Our home had all tested in early May, with negative results. Our place has been in lockdown since late March; the only people who could bring in the virus, are the workers. No one else is allowed in. PPE has been available since early April.

We've don't allow contractors in, only for emergencies. One was in today. His daughter is a carer in another (small) unconnected home, they have had no COVID related deaths, but she caught it and had to isolate.

My bottom line is, there is concern, but measures have been put in place, PPE and testing is available. Perhaps my place is one of the minority, but just to say all is not the same, as portrayed.
 

ufo550

Well-known Member
I see that the stats you provide show a higher risk living in a care home, than at home. But generally its because the residents are of a more vulnerable risk, they have more clinical needs than peoples of a similar age, living in their own homes. They are also in a more concentrated bubble, than say living on their own, in their own home.
 

SteveAWOL

Distinguished Member
The results show that half (56%) of these care homes had at least one confirmed case of COVID-19, as reported by care home managers, since the start of the pandemic. Across those care homes where managers reported at least one case of coronavirus, we estimate that 20% of residents in those care homes have tested positive for COVID-19, while 7% of staff tested positive, as reported by care home managers, during the same period.
 
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richp007

Distinguished Member
Makes for such grim reading.

I can only hope for the sake of everyone in a home and all their families, that if a second wave hits we do not make the same fatal mistakes we made first time around.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
They're an absolute joke. Truly pitiful to be honest. Aside from the blame implication, they can't even get on point with their messaging.

Saying this -

“We discovered too many care homes didn’t really follow the procedures in the way that they could have,”

is not saying this -

“The PM was pointing out that nobody knew what the correct procedures were because the extent of asymptomatic transmission was not known at the time.”

If nobody knew what the correct procedures were, how can you apportion blame for not following procedures.

Mind blowing incompetence, even at basic communication levels.
 
Well, I've been questioning this before, several times actually. I'm not surprised, to be honest, and do think that care homes have a lot to answer for.
 

Ste7en

Distinguished Member
I dunno. It was obvious they weren't prepared for what was coming. Perhaps they shouldn't have been used to house untested displaced hospital patients?

I can't juggle. Throw me a ball and I'll catch it. Throw me a second ball and I'll probably catch that as well. A third ball? Chances are I'll drop it. But is it my fault? I warned you I couldn't juggle.
 

ufo550

Well-known Member
Some if not most of these discharged patients, were are returning residents. The worst place for them are hospitals. If they are tested, when should that be to make the point of testing, effective. Before they leave or once they arrive.

When they have returned to the carehome, they are quarantined for 14 days in their rooms. Quarantined as best one can, with someone living with dementia.

i suspect the biggest threat to the residents, is not themselves, but the people caring for them.
 

fluxo

Distinguished Member
Up until the 12th March, in the government's advice for care homes:

"It remains very unlikely that people receiving care in a care home or the community will become infected."


The ONS has figures for deaths in care settings attributed to COVID. The sharp rise in deaths began approximately when the advice above was withdrawn. The people who died at that point would have been infected whilst the advice was still current (perhaps 2 to 3 weeks before the advice was changed). And at the point of change the disease would likely have been seeded in many care homes. To arrive at the best outcome care home managers would have had to essentially ignore government advice (e.g., not to wear face masks), and do this at quite an early stage.

Care homes did react in different ways and some implemented more stringent measures, when not prompted to do so. And given the number of independently operated care homes, it is almost certain that some will have responded inadequately to the crisis. This is also true of other countries. In Germany, for example, some care home providers were being investigated by state prosecutors with a view to bringing charges against them for negligence.

However, it would seem that in early March the extent of community transmission was significantly underestimated. I think a lot of the early mistakes were based on a flawed understanding of what was happening. I also think it's quite hard sometimes to distinguish a reasonable mistake from a more serious error of judgement.
 

mcbainne

Distinguished Member
If BoJo though he could quietly shift blame onto the care homes with his comments yesterday it appears to have backfired spectacularily, the anger is palpable this morning across all news channels.

I've never been a fan of Piers Morgan but at least in this he's on point



 

GoingGoingGone

Formerly 'doug56hl'
If BoJo though he could quietly shift blame onto the care homes with his comments yesterday it appears to have backfired spectacularily, the anger is palpable this morning across all news channels.
And this sums up well the way the government now operates

Mark Adams, chief executive of social care charity Community Integrated Care, added that he was 'unbelievably disappointed' by Mr Johnson's remarks and called them 'clumsy' and 'cowardly'.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: 'To be honest with you, if this is genuinely his view, I think we're almost entering a Kafkaesque alternative reality, where the Government sets the rules, we follow them, they don't like the results, they then deny setting the rules and blame the people that were trying to do their best.'

Boris Johnson accuses care home bosses of not looking after residents
 

Ste7en

Distinguished Member
Hence their 'soft touch' guidance rather than actual rules.

I remember when some 'non-essential' shops started to reopen with much fanfare. Their response? "We never said you should close".

You really can't win with them. They are like Crap Jedis :)
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Even a crap Jedi has completed their Jedi training :D

I think a "Jar Jar Binks" comparison would be more appropriate.
 

maddy

Well-known Member
Are care homes untouchable from criticism now, like the NHS is? Pointing out that some of them might not be all that good is the new heresy?
 

gavinhanly

Distinguished Member
Are care homes untouchable from criticism now, like the NHS is? Pointing out that some of them might not be all that good is the new heresy?
With evidence to hand, sure. The issue here, however, is that Boris said "too many care homes didn't really follow the procedures in the way that they could have" - a vague, throw-them-under-the-bus comment. Particularly when, as later admitted by Hancock, the procedures themselves were "unknown".

If he had actually said something like "We didn't know enough about the virus at the beginning, particularly around asymptomatic transfer. If we did, then the care homes could have followed procedures that would have protected them", then that would have been far better.

Or do you prefer the generalistic comment?
 

IronGiant

Moderator
One not following procedure would have been one too many, but it was pretty clear that wasn't how he meant it and what followed was insensitive and crass.
Edit: Oh, and I agree, the explanation of what was "meant" just didn't fit what was said.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Are care homes untouchable from criticism now, like the NHS is? Pointing out that some of them might not be all that good is the new heresy?
Nope, but making an irresponsible and ill-thought out comment on the subject should rightly be criticised.

I've also seen plenty of people (on here too) say blame shouldn't be getting apportioned at this time, so what's the difference here? Why hint at anything on it?

And if Johnson didn't actually mean to infer blame, then perhaps for a grown man in a position of PM he should learn to stop being such a blathering buffoon and speak with some decorum on the subjects he's asked about.

Now all he's managed to do is create a storm that was completely unavoidable. Becoming synonymous with everything this government touches, let's be honest.

I've also earlier watched a news article about some care staff who have just emerged from 12 weeks of staying in a home to protect the residents. That was a huge sacrifice and went above and beyond their call of duty. They aren't alone.

So the least that can also be expected is some delicacy on the matter.

But I know I ask too much.
 

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