Carbs.....opinions please......

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by YankTank, Aug 5, 2012.

  1. YankTank

    YankTank
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    Well recently I have been reading this book......

    Why We Get Fat: And What to Do about It: Amazon.co.uk: Gary Taubes: Books

    I like to think im reasonably well informed but I had no idea about how carbs effect fat retention/energy resource use. There is alot of other information on line that supports this books findings, now I have started doing some digging. The above book completely challenges the "calories in/calories out" hypothesis.

    Are you guys restricting carbs and if so, how many a day?

    Im definitely thinking of reducing carbs now, but am wondering how it may effect the ability to exercise......

    Any thoughts on all of the above??
     
  2. Steven

    Steven
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    Replacing one generalisation with another generalisation?

    Eat well, sleep well, exercise well. Three things. No complication.

    The food and health industry are full of self-interest groups, fads and u-turns. How does replacing the war on saturated fats with a war on carbs help? Removing an entire food group is extreme when the better education is balance. People need to be honest with their food intake, cook properly and combine with an active lifestyle.
     
  3. YankTank

    YankTank
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    I think part of the point is that the western diet we now have, even when we think we are eating well, Is laden with processed carbohydrates. The book is well worth a read and makes some interesting points about carbs and the way they effect fat retention/processing; it advocates well with good research to back up its point thats is not just calories in/calories out.

    Im certainly not advocating a 'no carb diet', but I wondered if anyone had any experience of reducing carbs (perhaps specifically processed carbs) and its effect on weight loss/ability to exercise.
     
  4. Foster

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    Nothing wrong with carbs like you said processed carbs are what you should avoid.
     
  5. Steven

    Steven
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    Limiting intake of chocolate, cakes, pastries and full sugar fizzy drinks is hardly revelatory. Fair play if you can sell a book about it but it remains common sense. I defy anyone deep down to truthfully plead ignorance that the sausage roll they are eating is high in saturated fat and calories
    If I were to eat processed carbs it would be a sandwich at lunch or a pasta meal. At a set meal and certainly not before a workout. Sweets pre-workout can be useful as it provides that instant energy boost. Same result can be achieved with a jam sandwich
     
  6. CoolBreeze9

    CoolBreeze9
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    The OP doesn't at any point suggest a war on carbs, merely thoughts on carb reduction. I actually agree with what he is getting at.

    I'm very much an advocate of going for a very low carb diet if you're trying to lose fat. Not zero carb but as low as you can go without any adverse affects. For me that is very low. I aim for probably a little over 100g of clean carbs. But can quite easily go as low as 50g.

    Sometimes I do think people over complicate when it comes to carb intake. Especially when referring to carbs as 'fuel' and how carb intake can affect workouts. I'm quite sure that the only people that need to worry about that are those that are doing cardiovascular exercise over marathon distances.

    Go low carb, eat lots of protein and get in a good amount of clean fats making sure your overall calorie intake is within a decent deficit and your body fat will fall off.
     
  7. Steven

    Steven
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    Never said the OP was. My post was phrased in the third person; i.e. the link contained in the first post
     
  8. Graham27

    Graham27
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    I don't conciously restrict carbs at all, but I've always had a fairly healthy attitude to food, I don't eat too much of anything and try to have a balanced diet.

    I don't really think much of the really low-carb diets, although I imagine there is some benefit to sensible carb reduction if you have too much of them currently.

    I'd rather just eat normally and exercise my arse off :D If I cut back too much on anything in particular I get demotivated and end up with some pretty bad munchies!
     
  9. KyleS1

    KyleS1
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    Anyone got a link to a decent site explaining about carbs - good/bad, what are processed carbs etc?
     
  10. YankTank

    YankTank
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    Good Carbs Vs. Bad Carbs: A List

    I found this website helpful, but the book mentioned in OP does a good job of explaining thoroughly.

    The thing I found out when looking into carbs was how I probably was sabotaging my own diet plan with eating too much high carb stuff, even if it's on the 'good list' - that sounds odd but when you max out on some 'good' things because you have increased levels of hunger because you are exercising more, you can be undoing your good work, it seems. The things I have read suggest a balanced diet yes, but maybe adding in more protein as opposed to maxing out on fruit, pasta and bread (restricting good and bad carbs).Yes we all all know sausage rolls and pork pies are bad, but did we know about eating too much fruit?

    If you are at you ideal weight you don't need to worry about this, just a balanced diet will do, however, if it's fat reduction you are after, optimising exercise undertaken and 'food control', the information/evidence seems to suggest restriction of overall levels of carb intake may be helpful..........I don't know but I'm going to give it a try.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  11. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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  12. KyleS1

    KyleS1
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    Ok, so going by that list, nearly every carb I eat is Medium GI. Is that ok or should it be a mix of low and medium?

    Also white rice is medium GI, but it seems a big no no generally. Confused.
     
  13. Foster

    Foster
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    High GI
    Instant White Rice 87

    it isn't xD
     
  14. KyleS1

    KyleS1
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    Basmati Rice 58 Medium GI.
    This is what I eat.

    What is instant white rice? That microwave stuff?
     
  15. GBDG1

    GBDG1
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    Quite a complex one this!

    Firstly, carbs are carbs, don't get too caught up in the GI of foods and the concept of "good" and "bad". The evidence isn't great and it doesn't matter too much unless you're diabetic.

    The answer to the original question is tired but true - it depends what you're looking to achieve. Anyone with aspirations to get sub 10% body fat, without being a stick or doing monumental amounts of cardio needs to monitor their carbs. Calories in/out is still important, and there are some big myths floating around, such as eating carbs & fat together makes a difference (it doesn't) and eating carbs at night makes it more likely to be put on as fat (nope).

    The quickest/easiest way to get results with a diet is high protein, medium carbs/low fat.

    I've never fancied keto myself (too many side effects) but it does work very well.
     
  16. BOUMSONG

    BOUMSONG
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    On week days I eat around 50-70g carbs per day and this has helped me lose 3 stone quickly.
     
  17. YankTank

    YankTank
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    Ah, this is very interesting.....

    Can you give a bit more info?

    What things have you been mainly eating?

    From what you say, are you eating 'normally' at the weekends?????? (not watching cabs at all) - has this undone you good work in week?

    What foods have you not been eating at all in week?

    How much exercise have you been taking and what type (cardio/weights)?

    How long has it taken to shed 3 Stone (Good effort mate!)?

    Sorry for all the Q's ! :rolleyes:
     
  18. Foster

    Foster
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    If I remember rightly it was march because he was posting about HIIT.
     
  19. BOUMSONG

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    The loss has slowed down quite a lot lately but looking at myfitnesspal, I went down almost 30lb between the 9th of May and 2nd of July. Overall I'm at about 41lb I think.

    For months I stopped drinking alcohol completely, tried practically starving myself, eating what I thought was healthy food, working out a lot. Well, with help from people on here and using myfitnesspal I was able to establish that I was eating a huge amount of carbs per day.

    At this point I then followed the advice on one of the main thread on bodybuilding.com where you are basically just advised to have 1g protein per lb of lbm, eat healthily and work out a lot. I found that the lower I went with carbs, fat and calories, the quicker the weight loss went. I was losing pounds a week at one point and I wasn't losing any strength in my lifts.

    On a typical day I will have a protein shake for breakfast (UGN pure protein 56 g), a pack oh ham with 15g of light mayo in a brown roll for lunch, fillet steak with onions, mushroom, broccoli and some french mustard for dinner, then a protein shake at about 9pm after working out. This is around 1500 calories per day

    At this point I think I was drinking once a week and having maybe one takeaway a week. I then found that by Friday's my weight loss was really slowing down, then would go up a little over the weekend, then would start rapidly decreasing again. I then started drinking on Saturdays as well and having plenty treats like a couple of takeaways, some snacks etc. Again the weight loss would fly off after the weekends. Possibly a form of calorie/carb cycling. I would likely be reaching a certain maintenance level by the Friday from the low calories and going way above over the weekend would help shake things up. It helps prevent you from going into starvation mode.

    Essentially, I can eat and drink whatever I want during the weekend and by say Tuesday morning, I will be back to Friday's level and hopefully by the Friday after that, I will be 2 pounds or more lighter than the previous week. But it's worth noting that I still try to stick to the same principles during the weekend, and other than a couple of nights of drinking and a couple of cheat meals, I'll otherwise try to stick to my plan. As an example though, I had a wedding recently where I ate and drank lots all weekend and by the Monday morning I had gained 3lb, but by the Tuesday or Wednesday I had lost it all again.

    Over the course of things I've been doing weights 3-4 times per week and running 5-6 days a week. I've gone from barely being able to run 4 minutes to being able to do 10k.

    Sorry if this is a bit of a muddle, at work just now and can explain things better later.

    PS - I've found lately that if I go low on carbs (< 70 g say) I find the treadmill can be very, very tiring. If I up it to 80-90, I can last a lot longer on the treadmill so I go a bit higher on cardio specific days.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  20. YankTank

    YankTank
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    Thanks so much far all that info ! Keep up the good work........
     
  21. sniffer66

    sniffer66
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    Thats pretty much a typical carb cycling protocol (though probably with less focus on whats going into your mouth on high carb days than some)

    I do a 3:1 carb cycle most of the time. Thats 3 days with restricted carbs and constant protein/fat, then one day where I blast the carbs and go about 20% over maintenance (again keeping protein\fat constant)
    I tend to go no less than 130g of carbs on low days though as I get too lethargic

    Your weekday/weekend cycle would work out as a 5:2 or 2.5:1 so pretty close

    Its well proven to work well for fat loss (and maintaining lbm) and your results bear that up. I also find its good to have that carb blast to look forward to when Imm feeling worn out or hungry. I HATED running at a constant deficit and lost less weight doing it anyway
     
  22. silent ninja

    silent ninja
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    Isn't that just similar to having a junk day?
     
  23. sniffer66

    sniffer66
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    Depends how you do it. Some people eat what the hell they like. I prefer to control it and eat a load more complex carbs rather than just shovel in a load of crap. I just think its better for you

    I tend to eat a lot of porridge and whole meal bread :)
     
  24. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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    That is what I do.
     
  25. YankTank

    YankTank
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    I would like to hear more about carb cycling........what exactly is it and how does it work?
     
  26. BOUMSONG

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    Have lost another 3lb this week :).
     
  27. cunny678

    cunny678
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    I dont agree with this statement in that all carbs are forms of sugar and there is a huge difference in how the body uses them. Simple example is the argument that brown bread is better for you than white bread. The main reason here is that white grains are achieved by removal of the husk and bleaching. As the husk has been removed the body breaks down this into sugar rapidly which is not ideal for the body unless you are going to use is as energy. By contrast grains with the husk intact take longer for the body to breakdown and thus sugar is released into the bloodstream at a slower rate which is generally regarded as more beneficial.

    Also eating to many simple carbohydrates is thought to be a contributing factor to type 2 diabetes as your body is continually having to produce insulin to control your blood sugar levels. This is fine is your day involves lots of manual activity in which case you are using the sugar, but not if you are sat at a desk all day!!!!

    I dont know about eating carbs and fat at the same time, but eating carbs with protein slows down the conversion of carbs to sugar in your body and is therefore better than eating carbs on their own for the above reason.

    I have tended to read the labels on products since I have a food allergy and it always amazes me how many hidden carbs there are in food:eek: As wheat flour is a cheap bulking agent they tend to use it in evreything they can!!

    In simple terms from my personal reading, peoples carb intake should be in line with the energy they use and they should aim for complex carbs where possible.
     
  28. YankTank

    YankTank
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    Cunny678...this is exactly why I stared looking at carb reduction.

    The book mentioned (in my opening post) says pretty much what you say in your above post. The point I was trying to make with this thread was that you really would be amazed how many carbs are in that generous plate of pasta, sub roll or even that bowl of fruit (which many people think is guilt free). So, you really can be totally shooting yourself in the foot if you are dieting, and exercising (then eating inappropriately) for fat loss. I like to think im well informed (im a qualified health professional), but I must admit, till recently I was pretty unaware of how carbs actually effect the body.

    The book states with conviction that its not only the 'bad' carbs responsible for diabetes/obesity, but also too many of the good ones too (in conjunction with).

    This has been a very interesting thread with some great contributions from members....thanks !:thumbsup:

    Still interested to hear more on carb cycling......
     
  29. CoolBreeze9

    CoolBreeze9
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    Agree with your last post YankTank. There has been a packet of wholemeal baps sitting in our kitchen for a few days and I was very surprised to find that 1 bap = 220 Kcals and 37g of carbs. Wholemeal is wholemeal, but 220/37 doesn't really fit in that well as part of an overall fat loss plan.

    Cunny's post was well written, and he has hit the nail on the head. Carbs aren't just carbs, you have to factor in how they are broken down and how they affect your blood glucose levels.

    You should get in some fats whenever you eat anything really, especially when eating carbs. Fats take longer to break down and digest so in turn will slow down the overall absorption of the calories you've eaten. Also, your body needs that fat to be able to fully get the nutrients from the other stuff you're eating.
     
  30. silent ninja

    silent ninja
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    Carbs (glucose) are the preferred source of energy for the body, particularly the brain. You need carbs to get a good workout and to generally have good energy levels (not the lethargy and poor concentration associated with low carbs). There's nothing evil about carbs at all, excess of anything is bad. We've been consuming tonnes of carbs for many thousands of years. As long as processed carbs are minimal and carbs are eaten in moderation, I don't see the problem.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012

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