Canon 300d recommend me a Zoom please

Discussion in 'Photography Forums' started by condyk, Mar 13, 2005.

  1. condyk

    condyk
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    Budget up to £200 and happy with new or VGC second hand. It'll be used for wildlife and birds mainly (95%) and primarily in Africa and Australia. Probably not too big/heavy would be best, if possible.

    I am thinking maybe 300mm would do but 400mm would be great if I can find one. Needs to be very decent quality, but maybe not absolutely top notch due to budget constraints. Decent resale value is an issue as I'll probably get a bigger top notch lens in time.

    I am thinking of the Sigma 70-300 APO, Canon EOS EF 75-300mm f4-5.6 AF, 400mm f5.6 SIGMA HSM and Sigma 135-400mm f4.5-5.6 APO, but this list primarily based on what I have found on second hand market so far. Any user experience of these would really be helpful. I guess the Sigma 70-300 APO is a safe bet, if decent, as would be only £140 new.
     
  2. seany

    seany
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  3. waysted_uk

    waysted_uk
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    I have the 70-300APO Macro V2 lens. It's a good lens for the price. Not to heavy and give a reasonable reach.

    If your main aim is for birds then I don't think it is long enough. You really need to be looking at 400 to 500mm lenses. Unfortunatly most of these lenses are outside your price range:

    Sigma 135-400 £300
    Sigma 170-500 £450
    Sigma 50-500 £630

    Hope this helpds
     
  4. paulmcg

    paulmcg
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    I have a Canon EOS EF 75-300mm f4-5.6 AF USM and am very pleased with it. The PQ is excellent. The USM is quick to focus too - which if you are focusing in flight will make life a lot easier - and it is only £20 more than non-usm.
     
  5. condyk

    condyk
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    Thanks ... been using the initial link to do research on Canon lenses. Verty useful. The 100-300 and 75-300 are on the list, particvularly the former which seems to be better though of, along with the Sigma, which seems good VFM at the cheapest I have found it, ie £139 new.

    Not an immediate rush to buy, so am also checking ebay to see if I can get something a tad better for not much more. Whateverf, one of these should see me through to see if I actually want to take it up us a serious hobby, at which time I will invest in some 400mm Canon L glass!!
     
  6. Johndm

    Johndm
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    As suggested by our friends over on the Canon Digital Photography Forums, you will regret buying a 75-300 if you get serious about wildlife etc.

    I've only had my 75-300 for 7 months before the 100-400 L arrived.. :D
     
  7. condyk

    condyk
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    So are you saying all the other people who DIDN'T suggest I go that route are not our friends ;-)

    I really get what those 'L' people say AND I would prefer to drive an Aston Martin too in an ideal world! In terms of DSLR photography, to stretch the analogy, I haven't even passed my theory test, let along been on the road!!

    Reality is that I will lose very little if I buy a decent cheaper lens as there is always a buyer for a decent lens at every price level. Its the real rubbish, in every price band, that you lose on. I can get my hands dirty with it.

    Studying sale of decent items over the last week on ebay confirms that. Sigma APO lens available from £139 to £229 new retail, one sold yesterday for £120 on ebay plus P&P. So, maybe I'll lose £30-40 quid at most if I buy cheap. If I get the 400mm L lens I would like ultimately (the Aston Martin) and then decide I don't want to get that serious then maybe I will get 80-90% of the buy price back if I'm lucky ... I will still lose more.

    Why is it so hard for 'our friends' to understand I don't yet know this is the hobby for me and so I don't want to risk too much cash. I know exactly the quality difference and, at this stage, it doesn't bother me. I want to learn how to use stuff and just potter with something half decent. When I get to go overseas then quality may bother me and at least I'll know if it bothers me enough to invest.

    Seems common sense to me :)
     
  8. tomson

    tomson
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    Some people don't want or need expensive lenses :rolleyes:

    It might be worth keeping an eye out on some of the sites that deal in secondhand stuff. Theres a EF 75-300/4-5.6 USM III, mint condition for £119 on http://srsmicrosystems.co.uk/

    And there are always a few similar cheap zooms on http://www.mifsuds.com
     
  9. condyk

    condyk
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    Cheers tomson, good links :thumbsup:
     
  10. Johndm

    Johndm
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    Ohhh.....a bit like we don't want or need expensive speakers to fully exploit our hugely expensive AV amps.... :D :D :D
     
  11. tomson

    tomson
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    60 quid speakers and no av amp to speak of.

    I rest my case :D :D
     
  12. condyk

    condyk
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    Sorry johndm, you don't seem to get what I am saying. Not everyone has the same needs, aspirations and priorities that you may have developed. I understand totally what you say. I understand the lens is like a hi-fi source and the camera is the amp (sh** in and you get sh** out!) I just prefer to be more careful with my cash.

    BTW A 100-400 L lens I was watching just sold for £420 on ebay UK ... so loss to owner somewhat considerable assuming s/he bought new! I went to £350. Bargain for someone else though. Scatches on body but optics perfect. If I do spot a genuine L bargain I'll go for, as I then know I will break-even at worst if I need to sell later.

    So, I think the only think we disagree on is that a cheaper lens will by default be a disapointment and so I'll lose cash when I upgrade. The resale facts recently on ebay don't seem to bear that out. If I am disappointed I will ultimately upgrade when I am satisfied I will stick with the hobby ... and put the PROFIT I make on the cheap lens towards it :clap: :clap:

    Anyway, thanks for trying to look out for me ... I am a lost case.
     
  13. Johndm

    Johndm
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    Enjoy your new 300D.............Can I recommend a battery grip as an accessory.. :smashin:

    Makes the camera much more stable in the hand, as well as no battery worries for hundreds of shots out in the field...or Africa :thumbsup:

    BTW, I've been a lost case for years.....
     
  14. condyk

    condyk
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    Cool ... it sounds like just what I'll need.
     
  15. waysted_uk

    waysted_uk
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  16. condyk

    condyk
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    Good links, thanks :smashin:

    I will call tomorrow and order one.

    I must say I was a bit disappointed in some of the images, which I assume where taken at 300MM or thereabouts. Seem a bit soft. The Andy Biggs web site is amazing for what is possible with the right gear. I think the Sigma will be perfectly OK to get me learning and up to speed tho'.
     
  17. condyk

    condyk
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    Shame waysted_Uk, but the Sigma is the Special not the latest Special II. Good heads up though.

    The hunt goes on ...
     
  18. imichael

    imichael
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    From memory the newer 70-300mm APO is an OK lens, I tried it for a while and wasn't that impressed.

    It needed to be over f8 for sharp shots, and usually at less than 240-250mm as well. For wildlife it is very slow focussing and obviously if you have to use f8 and upwards then shutter speed will be an issue as well. I kept my 55-200 Sigma DC kit lens at it is cheaper,faster and sharper, and the useable range very similar.

    Strangely the older APO had a better image quality and was faster (f stop) but was a slower focus and noisy as hell (and no macro I think).
     
  19. tomson

    tomson
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    I had one of those - and you're right they are slow and noisey. Quite sharp though. Picked it up for £60 and sold it for £130 if i remember correctly.
     
  20. Johndm

    Johndm
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    Don't forget that the older Sigma lenses will not work on the latest Canon DSLR's.......dreaded error 99.. :eek:

    Sigma were offering free re-chipping, but I believe that they now charge for this service
     
  21. waysted_uk

    waysted_uk
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    I actually got the 70-300 APO II as a replacement for my old 70-210 which would not work on the 300D. Sigma could not 're-chip' the lens as it was so old but the offered the 70-300 APOII at half retail price.

    As for the sharpness of the lens, its reasonable for a consumer lens. If you want really sharp pics straight from the camera then you need to invest series money in a Canon L series or a Simga EX lens. Have a look at these on pbase and you should see a difference. The only problem is the price!
     
  22. RBZ5416

    RBZ5416
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    The Canon 75-300mm USM III is £119 new from here.
     
  23. rcmarple

    rcmarple
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    http://www.vivitar.com/Products/Lenses/lenspg1.html#Ser1-100-400AF

    You'll get a brand new one for less than £200 although you may need to buy from the states. I've had mine for 18 months and I'm pleased with the results, some of which are here:
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/child.r/richard.html

    This doesn't mean to say that I don't want the "real thing", the Canon IS 100-400 but my current budget won't stretch.

    Let me know what you think of the pics - all taken with my 300D.

    Hope this helps,
    rcmarple.
     
  24. Johndm

    Johndm
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    Hurrah......another Aircraft shooter... :hiya:

    Have you uploaded any to Airliners.net?
     
  25. condyk

    condyk
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    Thanks for the suggestion. A concern with this lens is resale value. The images also feel a little noisy, flat and soft, though that could well be due to any JPG compression applied. Planes are also not my thing at all so hard to judge my response. I'm much more a bird and animal kinda guy!

    On the cheaper, decent zooms ... judging from ebay sales over last 7 days or so the Canon 75-300 USM III lenses sell consistently well (often more than they cost new from 7dayshop!!!!) followed by the 100-300 USM (which seems to be a better all round lens from reviews, for not much more money SH).

    Then there's the Sigma 70-300 APO Super II Which sells well, but not so good resale as the Canon's despite some people considering it an equal or better lens in decent light situations.

    Other brands just don't seem to hold value. Whether that's due to 'PR' from current Canon owners, who sometimes refuse to consider anything but Canon and 'L' lenses as serious options, or simple poor performance/quality I dunno.

    I am currently looking for a boxed good recent 100-300 USM Canon or the Sigma APO. From intensive research these are the best all rounders below £200. I would also go for a good example 70-200 f4 L Canon if I could find one at a great priced. Way above current budget but this lens would be a long term keeper rather than one to upgrade from.
     
  26. Johndm

    Johndm
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    The 70-200 f4 L will be a bit short for birds/wildlife. Maybe add a 1.4 or 2x Canon extender which will give you 640mm on your 300D against 480mm with the 100-300.

    As you know, anything over 300mm starts to get expensive!

    Have you thought about hiring some expensive glass to use for your trips if you'd rather not commit to buy?
     
  27. condyk

    condyk
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    Yes, extender is what I thought as a long term and practical upgrade path. Seems best cost benefit option. Also been reading some good reviews of Sigma equivelent, the EX/HSM f2.8 model. Conclusions seem to be same quality but lots cheaper, so I will check that out more too. Doubt I'd find many SH though!

    Not considered hiring mainly because I'd expect to be away for extended periods over several years. :clap:
     
  28. Johndm

    Johndm
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    CANON Teleconverters

    Canon Makes two T-cons.

    Extender EF 1.4x II
    This tele extender can be used with fixed focal length lenses 135mm and longer (except the 135mm f/2.8 Softfocus lens), and the EF 70-200 f/2.8L, 70-200 f/2.8L IS, 70-200 f/4.0L, and 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS zoom lenses. It multiplies its focal length 1.4x. Effective aperture is reduced by one f-stop; autofocus is possible on any EOS camera when combined with a lens having an f/4 or faster maximum aperture.

    Extender EF 2x II
    This tele extender can be used with fixed focal length lenses 135mm and longer (except the 135mm f/2.8 Softfocus lens), and the EF 70-200 f/2.8L, 70-200 f/2.8L IS, 70-200 f/4.0L, and 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS zoom lenses.
    The EF 2x II doubles the focal length of any lens it's mounted to, and reduces its effective aperture by two stops. With the EF 2x II, AF is possible with any EOS body if the lens has an f/2.8 or faster maximum aperture, and compatible Image Stabilization lenses maintain the IS feature when used with any current EOS camera.

    It is important to understand that the use of a teleconverter is subject to a number of conditions, including the following.

    1: T-cons can not be used with all lenses.
    2: T-cons will decrease the effective aperture of any lens to which it is attached.
    3: In many cases, the increased f/stop will result in a loss of Autofocus.
    4. In some cases, the use of a T-con will result in use of only the center AF point for autofocus.
    5. T-cons WILL degrade the final image quality f the lens in use.
    (the degree to which this is perceptible varies depnding on the lens with which it is used)

    Canon makes SLRs with TWO distinct Aperture requirements for Autofocus. (AF)

    A: The 1 series can AF with apertures as small as f/8
    Models include; EOS 1D, 1Ds, 1DMkII, and film cameras EOS 1 and EOS 3

    B: All other EOS bodies require f/5.6 to AF
    Models include D30, D60, 10D, 300D, and 20D
    Film bodies = all of them except for the 1 and 3

    4. The math is simple.
    Multiply the lenses focal Length in MM times the T-cons "X" (1.4X or 2X) to find the focal Length that will result.

    The same is true of f/stop.
    Either Multiply the lenses Max Aperture times the T-cons "X",. or simply add one full stop when using the 1.4X or two full stops when using the 2X

    T-cons DO NOT effect Minimum Focaus Distance.


    CANON Teleconverter compatibility Chart

    * In the charts "10D" represents all Canon "non 1 series" cameras film or digital re AF compatibility. This includes 300D, D60, 20D etc.
    "1D" is representative of all "1 series" film or digital as well as the EOS 3.

    NOTE: "AF" means the combination will autofocus.
    "MF" (Manual focus only) means that the combination will function,. but AF will NOT be available.

    Canon EF LENS Compatibility: ------------- 10D* -------- 1Dseries*
    ----- LENS --------------------------------------- 1.4X -- 2X ------ 1.4X -- 2X
    CANON EF 135mm f2L USM ------------------- AF --- AF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 200mm f2.8L USM ----------------- AF --- AF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 300mm f2.8L USM ----------------- AF --- AF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 300mm f4L IS USM ---------------- AF --- MF-------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 300mm f4L USM ------------------- AF --- MF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 400mm f2.8L USM ----------------- AF --- AF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 400mm f4DO USM ----------------- AF --- MF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 400mm f5.6L USM ----------------- MF --- MF -------- AF --- MF
    CANON EF 500mm f4L USM ------------------- AF --- MF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 500mm f4.5L USM ----------------- MF --- MF -------- AF --- MF
    CANON EF 600mm f4L USM ------------------- AF --- MF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 1200mm f5.6L USM ---------------- MF --- MF-------- AF --- MF
    CANON EF 70-200mm f2.8L USM-------------- AF --- AF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 70-200mm f/4L USM--------------- AF --- MF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6L USM-------- MF --- MF --------AF --- MF


    SIGMA Teleconverters


    Sigma Apo Tele-Converter EX 1.4X / 2X are dedicated Tele Converter lenses, which should be used only with lenses listed in the Tables. If you mount a Sigma Tele Converter 1.4X EX or 2x EX to a lens that is not listed in the tables it may damage the Tele Converter as well as the master lens.

    SIGMA Teleconverter compatibility Charts

    Focusing
    On the lists, the lenses marked "AF" will retain auto focus operation when used with a Tele Converter. The lenses marked "MF can only be used for manual focus.

    *1 With 1.4x APO Tele Converter, AF can operate at distances more than 1.2m from the subject. If the subject is closer than 1.2m, only MF is available.

    *2 When the Tele Converter is attached, the zoom range will be restricted to between 100mm to 500mm.

    EX lens Compatibility ------------------------- 10D* ------- 1D series*
    - Exclusive lenses - - ---------------------------- 1.4X-- 2X ------ 1.4X -- 2X
    APO 120-300mm F2.8 EX IF HSM -------------- AF --- AF ------- AF --- AF
    APO 300-800mm F5.6 EX IF HSM -------------- MF --- MF ------- AF --- MF
    APO 70-200mm F2.8 EX HSM ------------------- AF --- AF ------- AF --- AF
    APO 300mm F2.8 EX HSM ------------------------AF --- AF ------- AF --- AF
    - Usable lenses - -
    APO 500mm F4.5 EX HSM ----------------------- MF --- MF ------- AF --- MF
    APO 800mm F5.6 EX HSM ----------------------- MF --- MF ------- AF --- MF
    *1 APO MACRO 180mm F3.5 EX IF HSM ------ AF/MF MF ------- AF --- AF
    *2 APO 50-500mm F4-6.3 EX RF HSM ---------MF --- MF ------- MF --- MF
    APO 100-300mm F4 EX IF HSM ----------------- AF --- MF ------- AF --- AF
    APO 80-400mm f4.5-5.6 EX OS ---------------- MF --- MF ------- AF --- MF



    Canon EF LENS Compatibility: ------------- 10D* -------- 1Dseries*
    ----- LENS --------------------------------------- 1.4X -- 2X ------ 1.4X -- 2X
    CANON EF 200mm f2.8L USM ----------------- AF --- AF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 300mm f2.8L USM ----------------- AF --- AF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 300mm f4L IS USM ---------------- AF --- MF-------- AF --- AF

    CANON EF 300mm f4L USM ------------------- AF --- MF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 400mm f2.8L USM ----------------- AF --- AF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 400mm f4DO USM ----------------- AF --- MF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 400mm f5.6L USM ----------------- MF --- MF -------- AF --- MF
    CANON EF 500mm f4L USM ------------------- AF --- MF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 500mm f4.5L USM ----------------- MF --- MF -------- AF --- MF
    CANON EF 600mm f4l USM -------------------- AF --- MF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 1200mm f5.6L USM ---------------- MF --- MF-------- AF --- MF
    CANON EF 70-200mm f2.8L USM-------------- AF --- AF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 70-200mm f/4L USM--------------- AF --- MF -------- AF --- AF
    CANON EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6L USM-------- MF --- MF --------AF --- MF

    Older APO lens Compatibility: ------------ 10D* --------- 1Dseries*
    ----- LENS --------------------------------------- 1.4X -- 2X ------ 1.4X -- 2X
    SIGMA APO 300mm f2.8 ---------------------- MF --- MF -------- MF --- MF
    SIGMA APO TELE MACRO 300mm f4--------- MF --- MF -------- MF --- MF
    SIGMA APO TELE MACRO 300mm f4 HSM--- MF --- MF -------- MF --- MF
    SIGMA APO TELE MACRO 400mm f5.6 ------ MF --- MF -------- MF --- MF
    SIGMA APO TELE MACRO 400mm f5.6 HSM-MF --- MF -------- MF --- MF
    SIGMA APO 500mm f4.5 ---------------------- MF --- MF -------- MF --- MF
    SIGMA APO 800mm f5.6 ---------------------- MF --- MF -------- MF --- MF
    SIGMA APO 1000mm f8 ----------------------- MF --- MF -------- MF --- MF
    SIGMA APO 70-210mm f2.8------------------- MF --- MF -------- MF --- MF


    * In the charts "10D" represents all Canon "non 1 series" cameras film or digital re AF compatibility. This includes 300D, D60, 20D etc.
    "1D" is representative of all "1 series" film or digital as well as the EOS 3.
     
  29. condyk

    condyk
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    That's a great reference, thanks Johndm :smashin:

    I dunno what the hell I'm talking about, but from what I gather, and assuming the Sigma and Canon 70-200 EX/HSM and L/USM class lenses are broadly comparable in quality, which seems to be the case, then the fact the f2.8 Sigma is cheaper than even the Canon f4 must make it favourite, as it will allow improved performance in dawn/dusk conditions when many of the African animals are pottering about. Or, am I talking through my rear end? Wouldn't be the first time :rotfl:

    Reviews from range of users, consumer to pro:

    http://www.photographyreview.com/PRD_83598_3128crx.aspx
     
  30. Johndm

    Johndm
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    More reading for you...........

    http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=12&sort=7&thecat=27

    http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=102&sort=7&cat=37&page=1

    http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=14&sort=7&cat=27&page=2


    and yep you are correct....low light needs BIG expensive glass...f2.8 or less really..
     

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