Can you use HDMI extenders with MOCA ethernet over coax networking bridges?

snowkit

Standard Member
So I have no ethernet cabling in my house, but I do have coax in every room. There are these networking bridges that do ethernet over coax. One from Actiontec MOCA stands for multimedia over coax Aliiance. They started with version 1.0, now there on 1.1. All versions are backwards compatible. They have announced MOCA 2.0 but I haven't seen any products using them yet unless I am looking in the wrong places. MOCA 2.0 can offer speeds in the gigabit range but of course you need a gigabit router as well. Anyway, ethernet over coax can turn your home TV cabling into a massive home network with a minimum sustained 100 mbps speed. Then some models offering 200 and 270 mbps max. But you get true 100 mbps like with T10/100 ethernet from your router. So what's great is that you don't need to install massive amounts of ethernet all over the house like people currently do. So what I would like to ask is if it's possible to use these networking bridges with HDMI extender such as the Octavainc HDMI 1.3 Extender + IR + Optical SPDIF product?

I would like to use this extender with Sky HD, Octavainc website says it can transmit Sky HD over ethernet, but will it work with ethernet over coax?

The way ethernet over coax works, is that you buy them in a pair. They look like routers but are called bridges. 1 bridge connects to PC wireless router via ethernet cable and then via coax to a TV wall plate. Then the other bridge you place in another room and connect it to a TV wall plate with a coax cable and then via ethernet cable to any ethernet device, like a PC, PS3 or anything else.

Now going back to the Octava extender, it says on their website that it can do the 3d over HDMI spec for 3d bluray movies via HDMI 1.3. Like the PS3, SKY HD, also it can do 3d bluray players. Then it's compatible with all the games consoles and any other device you want to transmit. Octava website say's for 1080i content it works up to 300 feet of ethernet cable and for 1080p content up to 150 feet of ethetnet cable. It can transmit the surround sound via SPDIF optical toslink from a SKY HD box and has an IR blaster to allow you to control the SKY HD box from another room.

My SKY HD is connected to a TV downstairs and I would like to transmit the HDMI signal, surround audio via optical SPDIF toslink and IR signals with this octava extender to another room which is on the third floor. As I am transmitting 1080i, the octava supports it over 300 feet of ethernet cable. I think from my TV downstairs to my room on the third floor is about 80 feet if you just measure it by the height of the house. But it doesn't work like that of course. The cabling goes around the whole house and probably through a number of coax splitters. So it may actually be much longer than 300 feet. I know that the MOCA bridges can support ethernet over coax cabling of 1000 feet with some devices able to cover nearly 2000 feet of coax cabling. So it shouldn't matter right? As coax has enough bandwidth and I am using a networking bridge which connects the ethernet stream, so it shouldn't matter how far I am away. Anyone got any experience with this?

Lastly, I have seen a pair of these Octavainc extenders in the UK for best price £160 delivered and in the USA £140. Have you seen a better price in the UK or know of an cheaper model from another company with toslink and IR?

I would really like to hear your opinions on this

Any help much appreciated

Many thanks in advance
 
Last edited:

snowkit

Standard Member
Okay after writing all that. I have just found that their exists products called HDMI over coax which is simply what I want to do but with a standalone unit. But these are much more expensive ways to do it. Like $600 for a pair. At least this way you don't need to first connect to the internet via a router as you don't need to deal with ethernet.

Still if anyone knows if the ethernet over coax way I mentioned in my first post works with these HDMI extenders that use standard ethernet cabling. It would be good to know? As it works out far cheaper.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Hello snowkit

The Octava Inc. website correctly say they can transmit HDMI over Ethernet cables – not the same as over an Ethernet network!

The HDMI over Twisted pair extenders are using the physical properties of the CAT5 or CAT6 cables to send a balanced signal – they do not packetize the HDMI signal to run over an Ethernet network.

HDMI over Twisted pair is not compatible with HomePlug IP over Mains or Ethernet over Coax type solutions.

There are HDMI over Ethernet solutions – though they cost a fair bit more; HDMI Over IP

I’m told that some of the HDMI over Ethernet solutions can work with HomePlug IP over Mains solutions – though I’ve not seen it done.

Any figures you seem banded about quoting max cable/transmission length on any of these systems has to be looked at with the words 'in ideal conditions' in small print somewhere.

Joe
 

snowkit

Standard Member
Hello snowkit

The Octava Inc. website correctly say they can transmit HDMI over Ethernet cables – not the same as over an Ethernet network!

The HDMI over Twisted pair extenders are using the physical properties of the CAT5 or CAT6 cables to send a balanced signal – they do not packetize the HDMI signal to run over an Ethernet network.

HDMI over Twisted pair is not compatible with HomePlug IP over Mains or Ethernet over Coax type solutions.

There are HDMI over Ethernet solutions – though they cost a fair bit more; HDMI Over IP

I'm told that some of the HDMI over Ethernet solutions can work with HomePlug IP over Mains solutions – though I've not seen it done.

Any figures you seem banded about quoting max cable/transmission length on any of these systems has to be looked at with the words 'in ideal conditions' in small print somewhere.

Joe

Many thanks for your reply

I looked into this HDMI over IP, it sounds interesting. But I came across there is also HDMI over coax. I found one device which comes in a pair. The sender and receiver. But what's interesting is that once you connect the sender to SKY HD then you only need to put 1 receiver in each room as they can be daisy chained together so that when you change the channel on the Sky HD box it will automatically change the channel on all receivers in other rooms. This device could also send the surround sound, but it didn't have an IR blaster. The problem is it was expensive at around $600 for a pair. I have been searching around and cannot find a cheaper model that also has the IR blaster. Do you know any other manufacturer that has a cheaper model of this HDMI over coax?

Many thanks in advance
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
A link to what you have found would be handy to see what it offers - all manner of units on the market that promise a lot but don’t tend to deliver what you expect.

‘Broadcasting’ a full HDMI signal over a single piece of Coax will require a lot of on-board technology.

Joe
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Intelix is a good brand though as always with these devices until you plug them in and A. confirm they work and B. confirm they don’t cause image quality issues you're working in the dark.

Joe
 

Audiomation

Standard Member
Intelix is a good brand though as always with these devices until you plug them in and A. confirm they work and B. confirm they don't cause image quality issues you're working in the dark.

Joe

Hi,

I completely agree with Joe - these devices need to be vetted in real installations. I've spent some time looking for a review of this product, or even a comment from anyone on whether it works at all. I've seen some of the cat-5 HDMI extenders doing a pretty awful job with picture quality.

I'm not saying this doesn't work, or doesn't work well, just that I'd love to find reports from people who've used it. Is it sensitive to distance (more than claimed by the manufacturer)? Are the units reliable? It appears as though they've only been out a few months (since 9/10 as far as I can tell), so long-term reliability won't be known for some time.

As far as price, if you purchase these as a reseller, I've seen pricing a little over $300 for a pair - one transmitter, one receiver. B&H Photo in NYC, NY, USA has pricing closer to the $600 quoted by snowkit. That's a typical markup in this business. I'd look into Milestek as a distributor - I've worked with them and they're good.

I was glad to see some discussion of this device, but I'd really love to hear from people who've used them. Thanks in advance for any comments.

Audiomation
 

snowkit

Standard Member
Hi,

I completely agree with Joe - these devices need to be vetted in real installations. I've spent some time looking for a review of this product, or even a comment from anyone on whether it works at all. I've seen some of the cat-5 HDMI extenders doing a pretty awful job with picture quality.

I'm not saying this doesn't work, or doesn't work well, just that I'd love to find reports from people who've used it. Is it sensitive to distance (more than claimed by the manufacturer)? Are the units reliable? It appears as though they've only been out a few months (since 9/10 as far as I can tell), so long-term reliability won't be known for some time.

As far as price, if you purchase these as a reseller, I've seen pricing a little over $300 for a pair - one transmitter, one receiver. B&H Photo in NYC, NY, USA has pricing closer to the $600 quoted by snowkit. That's a typical markup in this business. I'd look into Milestek as a distributor - I've worked with them and they're good.

I was glad to see some discussion of this device, but I'd really love to hear from people who've used them. Thanks in advance for any comments.

Audiomation

Many thanks for this very detailed reply

I find this HDMI over coax product very interesting. What I would like to use them for is to not only stream a 1080p movie from say a bluray player or PC to another room in my house. But to also to see my desktop PC over the HDMI in another room. Is this possible?

So the idea is that I can view the entire content of my PC in another room on an HDMI Full HDTV in 1920 x 1200 resolution or 1920 x 1080p. Then I can use a wireless mouse and keyboard in this other room and either select a 1080p movie, or bluray to play that's on this PC in the other room and also to select a game that's installed on this PC to play. Is this possible? As well can these HDMI over coax devices stream any type of media that is connected via HDMI and does it work with HDMI to DVI adapters and vice versa?

Many thanks in advance
 

Audiomation

Standard Member
Greetings Snowkit,

Here are the specs for the Intelix product you'd mentioned (DIGI-HD-COAX):

Supported Resoutions
(DVI/PC connection)
1280x720, 1920x1080
50/60 Hz

Also, a correction to my earlier post: Milestek has another product that looks a lot like the Intelix, but it's not the Intelix product exactly. Milestek does, however, have two HDMI inputs and a remote control to select one or the other. It is part #90-12024, and it's $335. It says HDMI 1.3c, as opposed to Intelix's device, which says HDMI1.3. Intelix shows a picture of theirs using a mini-59, whereas Milestek's says it's only for use with 'CATV broadband coax'.

Finally, for lots of fun with HDMI extension experiences, check this thread:

HDMI over Cat5e Problems (Video blanks when fan/light/motor turns on/off) [Text View] - AVS Forum

Bottom line: be very, very wary of HDMI extension, particularly when A/V receivers or other HDMI switching devices are involved. I've had problems with Samsung cable boxes and HDMI with AVRs without extension.

Audiomation
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
The problem with the majority of the single Twisted pair extenders is they are fudging the system.

There are not enough lines in a single CAT5 or CAT6 cable to carry an HDMI signal without some serious pre-processing.

Until the recent release of the HDbaseT chip set the majority of single cable solutions are converting the digital signal to analogue in the transmitter > sending the analogue signal out over the twisted pair cable and rebuilding an 'HDMI' signal in the Receiver unit.

With HDbaseT you can go out to 100m (1080p over CAT6) and simultaneously support HDMI plus IR plus Ethernet in an all-digital single cable solution.

Octava HDCATS-100-HDMI Ethernet Extender -300ft over 1 CAT 5/6 cable.

Joe
 

Audiomation

Standard Member
Greetings,

I have used the following device:

Intelix.com - DIGI-HD-COAX HDMI over RG6/RG59 Extender

and it worked fine with an audio/video receiver between two sources and the display. I.e., I had a Blu-ray player and a Samsung cable box (notorious for incompatibility) connected to an older (3 years) Yamaha receiver, with the Yamaha's output connected to the Intelix transmitter. Sent the signal over a short (50') RG-6 to a Sony LCD TV, and it worked great. Had to power cycle the Intelix units after installation, but just once, and then it's been working for 2 weeks. At least my customer hasn't called me, which assures me it's working.

Picture quality was very good, and the audio worked in this application.

I spoke to Intelix's technical support before purchasing, and they warned me that a picture would not be displayed unless it was at least 720p. For whatever reason, their solution doesn't support SD. This is no problem, as I am able to easily force the cable box to put out at least 720p. The Blu-ray player could also be forced to do this. Bear in mind that these are menu-driven settings that must be set with some other video solution in place before implementing the Intelix boxes.

Also, Intelix tech support confirmed that their box is designed to work with mini-59 wiring, which will save me in an application for a projector where I will no longer have to open the wall.

Finally, I was able to get much better pricing through their distribution chain using my resale certificate, so the B&H price is only an obstacle if you're an end user. And if you're an end user in need of this solution, it's worth it.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Star Wars Andor, Woman King, more Star Trek 4K, Rings of Power & the latest TV, movies & 4K releases
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom