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Can we clear this up. What is HD-ready and what is Sky-ready?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Stuart Wright, Jul 13, 2005.

  1. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1697000&postcount=3
    says that to show the HD-ready badge, the signal has to come in through DVI or HDMI connectors.
    But I have read discussions re component in from the Sky HD box.
    So will the Sky box offer 720p or 1080i via component? If so is this HDTV? It can't be HD-ready, though, can it?
    Will boxes which can display the HD signal via component but which therefore don't have copy protection work?
    I'd like some help in clarifying thse issues so I can put them int he FAQ.
    Your help would be appreciated.
    Cheers
     
  2. Jazz Monkey Jr

    Jazz Monkey Jr
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    As far as I know, the HDCP stuff has to come through the HDMI such as movies etc. to make it HD ready.
    Other channels on the Sky HD which don't need HDCP will be able to come through component such as MTV, Sky one etc.

    So non-HD ready panels should be still be able to get the non HDCP stuff without reverting to illegal dongles.
     
  3. Mep

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    is it worth making this a sticky?
     
  4. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    Simply, for a TV to be "HD Ready" it has to take 720p/60/50 and 1080i/50/60 over DVI/HDMI and be able to handle the HDCP within said signal, and the display must be able to display the 720p lines of resolution at least.

    Broadcasters and studios have agreed this format, if you buy a set now with the label you are guarunteed it to work with the proposed European formats.
    If you buy a set that does all the above but say doesn't handle HDCP dvi/hdmi you can't complain that when/if Sky decide to only show stuff via DVI and turn off the analogue outputs you can no longer view it.

    This may all become irrelevant though, it was the same with Macrovision when home video was released, some displays would not be able to play it, and region settings when DVD was released. Look at DVD regions now, you can buy big brand players and you expect them to be region free when they leave the stores. It will be the same with HD stuff too, there will be chips and firmware hacks for players, scalers, set top boxes etc. to strip out the HDCP or turn the analogue outputs back on. Sky et al will have to be seen to be taking this copy protection seriously but they want as many people to be able to use the service as possible, they are not going to fight exploits too hard.
     
  5. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    Yeah, well it has to be able to accept the HD signals over and hdcp dvi/hdmi connector, doesn't have to come through it, has to be capable of coming through it.

    If it is 720p or 1080i you are watching it is HD, how it is connected is irrelevant.


    It all depends on what the broadcaster decides, you could find that everything works through component for 12 months and then pay-per-view events are on an HDCP DVI/HDMI connection only.
     
  6. poshngoldenball

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  7. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    This is where the confusion starts for me. Though it may not be 'HD-ready' will component work in 720p or 1080i from a Sky box?
    And if it will only work on certain (unencrypted) signals/channels and possibly only for a limited time, what is the wisest advice we should be giving people?
    Should we be discouraging people rely on a component future, or should we be suggesting that it will work but only in a limited way or for a limited time?

    Also, this article:
    http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/showarticle.php?articleid=918
    I think mistakenly has '720i' instead of '720p' in a couple of places which makes it very confusing. Or am I missing something?
     
  8. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    I would only advise people to buy a screen at this stage that accepts all the signals needed to get the "HD-Ready" logo.
    However, I would not recommend selling a set that is capable of accepting these signals over analogue to sell their screens to get an HD-Ready one.

    As poshngoldenball points out in his link, there are already devices to get round this and by the time HD is really about and there is real money to be made to get round HDCP there will be hundreds of ways to do it.
     
  9. Canoehq

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    I don't think it is as bad as everyone is making out. SKY have already said that if you buy one of the initial HD boxes, it will be HD via component and this will mean all programmes and it would appear will continue that way. It will only be later boxes which will not have component.

    Here's a link which might help (second question from the bottom)

    "I HAVE ALREADY GOT AN HD RESOLUTION TV BUT IT DOES NOT HAVE AN HDMI OR DVI CONNECTOR, WILL I STILL BE ABLE TO USE IT WITH SKY'S HD SERVICE?"

    http://hd.sky.com/default.aspx?id=6
     
  10. Joe Fernand

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    Hello all

    Stuart its simple - as gizlaroc says ensure you purchase a set that's got the 'HD Ready' designation - relying on what SKY and its Broadcasting partners output via any YUV analogue outputs is not a long term solution.

    Its an odd shout really - lots of enthusiasts will change TV's every couple of years so the YUV Outputs is possibly not a bad shout if you can get a YUV compatible non HD Ready Display at a bargain price; whilst the majority of buyers want at least ten years from a set so wont be too happy when SKY and its partners switch off the YUV Outputs.

    gizlaroc - I'm not so sure about devices that circumvent HDCP. Over on the AV Science (US) Forums On-line retailers have already reported they have had letters from the powers that be demanding that they cease to supply such products.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS And of course were breaking Forum rules even mentioning them :)
     
  11. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    [​IMG]
     
  12. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    the EICTA "HD ready" Logo which has been quoted and linked too on this site numkerous times states
    See here: http://www.eicta.org/files/PressRelease1-115438A.pdf
    Read the last page of this if you want to really get confused tho.............http://www.eicta.org/files/FAQ-111949A.pdf TH-37PV500 MAY not be HD ready according to this!!!! MADNESS
     
  13. Badger0-0

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    I'm guessing they're talking about overscan, Yes???
    So, if you can't see all the picture, it isn't compliant, surely ???
     
  14. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    puts ALIS in a quandry what with overscan and clipped 1080 doesnt it.......anyone know any who works for EICTA
     
  15. theo cupier

    theo cupier
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    I think part of the issue is that Sky have moved the goalposts since their early announcements but people (cynically or otherwise) are working in expectation of further shifts in position.

    Initial Sky HD is being touted now (see posts above) as less rigorous than "HD Ready", in other words, Sky have taken a step backwards and said that they will use non-encyrpted analog HD signal 720p/1080i @50.

    This is presumably due to some form of set manufacturer, and/or consumer pressure, because of the number of screens which could not accept 720p / 1080i @ 50 with HDCP.

    The expectation seems to be that this will not last. Sooner or later Sky-HD compliant will essentially mean the same as "HD Ready", in that their use of HD signals without HDCP will stop and 720p / 1080i @ 50 with HDCP will be necessary to receive some (or all) Sky HD broadcasts.

    I think this is what Sky are alluding to when they advise users to buy "HD ready" sets. They cannot (will not) guarantee that analog HD signals will always be available and at the moment they are alluding to this being a technology change - moving to digital because it's new/better. In reality this is probably going to be imposed on them by content makers demanding copy protection on their content.
     
  16. Badger0-0

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    So, (having read the link) it MUST do 720 lines at 16:9.

    Theoretically, the ALIS is 512 lines, albeit debatable, so I see what you're saying.

    But a lot of people, as you well know, say it's a 1024 screen.

    The Hitachi can do 720 lines at 16:9, although it's double scanned, so it complies (and I know it's scaled, but, I can't do the maths this time of night), IMO.

    And would they really throw Hitachi out of the game, when all the journos and practically Hitachi themselves have said it's ok????

    IMO, no way.

    But it certainly opens up a can of worms :confused:
     
  17. NWhiteley

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    so is the 42pd7200 actually Hd ready?
     
  18. Badger0-0

    Badger0-0
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    Sorry, my previous post was meant for Horneydragon.


    But my guess is that HD over component will be available for everyone.

    And then after 2 years or so, when DVD players etc have caught up (because my guess is the cheapy chinese DVD player manufacturers are not involved in this HD protocol), all extra channels ie: Movies and PPV will move over to HDCP via HDMI.
    It's all about money, after all and this is Hollywood's answer to copying, albeit laughable IMO.
     
  19. Badger0-0

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    YESSSSSSS!!!!!
     
  20. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    It won't be Sky who insist on HDCP, it will be the studios or event organizers that will insist on it, if Sky can get away with out having to use HDCP they will for as long as possible. Hopefuly the studios will realise what a joke hdcp is before they start to force broadcasters to use it.
     
  21. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    My thoughts on HD Readiness are that there should be a "HD Compatible" logo in addition to "HD Ready". Lower than 720p res screens which still support all the necessary input signals but don't have the magic 720p resolution e.g. 576p projectors, 480p plasmas. They will all display HD, all look far better than DVD while displaying it, but the kind of information the general public is getting is that these screens are next to useless because of their resolution.
     
  22. Joe Fernand

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    Hi Liam

    Like you I feel an 'HD Compatible' designation is required to differentiate between the Displays with less than 720 rows of pixels but will display 720P(50) and 1080i(50) signals via HDMI and the 'HD Ready' kit that does have 720 rows (or more) of pixels and again 720P(50) and 1080i(50) compatible via HDMI; in fact I've been using 'HD Compatible' on our web site and in posts.

    I guess you must owe me a fee for using 'HD Compatible' then :)

    Joe

    PS How about a prise for the most Rules Broken in a single Post?
     
  23. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    Hey I'm sure I coined that phrase before you did!!! On this very forum LOL!!! It's in the HDTV FAQ that I still haven't finished writing for the ProgressiveAV site anyway.

    Most rules broken in a single post eh?? Very tempting. One massive, racist rant, with links, against the mods, that also solicits business, using copyrighted graphics, cross-posted to every forum should just about do it!! Oh and changing your login name to "Big T1ts" or something. Hello, I think I just broke rule 2 :D I think the heat is getting to me today.....
     
  24. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hi Liam

    What heat - its 'raining'!!!

    Big Stu must be penning a wee reply to you by now :)

    Joe
     
  25. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    I am sitting in baking heat down south. Not looking forward to the drive up into London later though, thank god for air con!!

    I'm sure the big fella knows I'm only joshing :cool:
     
  26. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    I put this post in here because I quickly need to get some kind of official information in a FAQ and the plasma forum is just as relevant but morelikely to get replies.
    Let's keep it on topic shall we, guys.
     
  27. Joe Fernand

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    Hello Stuart

    I think an FAQ covering this topic is likely to be so convoluted most folk will give up and simply ask the question in a Thread - best of luck anyway.

    Joe
     
  28. NicolasB

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    One other point that I don't think anyone has mentioned: if you look at Sky's site they say that HDMI output will always have HDCP switched on. In other words, if your TV has a non-HDCP DVI input you will not be able to feed that using an HDMI to DVI adapter (unless it's an illegal HDCP-removal device).

    So your only HD options (according to Sky) are HDCP digital, or component (analogue).
     

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  29. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    If the advice is for what forum readers should do to ensure HD compatability then it's been said. Buy an HD READY logo'd product.

    If it's to advise forum readers if there display is SKY-HD ready then they need to look at their display specs and check whether it will accept either 720P/50Hz or 1080i/50Hz via HDMI/DVI(HDCP) or as a last resort component YPrPb/YUV/YCrCb. I say component as a last resort as who know how long boxes outputting that will be available, who knows if future content will actually be output in HD from those sockets and future HD-DVD or BluRay players are not likely to have them either.

    The 50Hz bit is VERY important.

    The HDCP stripping device linked to doesn't work with all sources. Until the SKYHD box is in the market place no-one will know if it is of any use in this regard.

    Gordon
     
  30. Steve_P

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    Until they (Sky) decide to pull the plug.

    If we (or more accurately Stuart :smashin: ) are/(is) producing a FAQ for the less well informed then I think we have to think worst case as opposed to pin hopes on something that may happen. To me at least, the whole tone of the information released by Sky suggests that Hi-Def content via analogue component is a temporary stop gap solution, how long that solution lasts I guess depends upon how quickly punters take up new TV's with HDCP digital capability, be they true HD ready sets that can wear the new logo, or standard definition screens that can accept HDCP protected HDMI/DVI signals.

    S.
     

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