Can the 360 support 50Hz HD output?

Discussion in 'Xbox Forums' started by gavan, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. gavan

    gavan
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Messages:
    3,984
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Rapture
    Ratings:
    +287
    Anyone know? Seems to run in 60Hz by default (US. Standard) but if you were using it to view 50Hz content off of a media center PC it would be nice to have 50Hz output.

    I believe that 50Hz HD is a defined standard for Europe, so at least European HD-Ready sets should support it, if the box can do it.


    Gav
     
  2. rEVILospud

    rEVILospud
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,295
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Shoreham-by-Sea
    Ratings:
    +235
    There isn't to my knowledge any HD 50Hz material available, so it would only be a problem with SD 50 Hz sources being upscaled to HD resolutions. I believe that the Xbox 360 does actually upscale SD 50 Hz to HD 60 Hz, and you only have the option of outputting 50 Hz when you use a non-HD connection (i.e. Scart or Composite).
    So in short: No, I don't think the Xbox 360 outputs HD @ 50 Hz.

    But good news is that our HDTV sets do accept HD @ 50 Hz, have tried it through PC and upscaling DVD player.
     
  3. Munkey Boy

    Munkey Boy
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2003
    Messages:
    16,960
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +4,473
    I thought one of the standards of HD was that it was 60Hz? So surely, 50Hz HD is a contradiction in terms?
     
  4. Poissony

    Poissony
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2000
    Messages:
    188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +24
    Nope HD can be 50Hz as well. Sky HD will be 50Hz for instance.
     
  5. Munkey Boy

    Munkey Boy
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2003
    Messages:
    16,960
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +4,473
    Oh well, you learn something new every day. So much for standardisation then. :rolleyes:
     
  6. gavan

    gavan
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Messages:
    3,984
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Rapture
    Ratings:
    +287

    It's reasonable to assume that a lot of European 'HD' material will contain upscaled PAL SD. Therefore I guess they decided to use 50Hz update to minimise conversion problems.

    It would be good if they just broadcast HD source material 'as is': ie. US stuff would be transmitted in 60Hz, as the sets should be able to handle both refresh rates. However, I'd guess that wouldn't be the case.

    For using the 360 as a media center extender, it would be mighty useful if it could support 50Hz output to HD.


    Gav
     
  7. Jordans Norks

    Jordans Norks
    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Messages:
    1,700
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +56
    To be HD Ready certified the display must accept both 50Hz and 60Hz 720p or 1080i signals - don't see why they couldn't just go through the pain now and standarise on one.
     
  8. Munkey Boy

    Munkey Boy
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2003
    Messages:
    16,960
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +4,473
    There's going to have to be conversion somewhere then - if SkyHD broadcasts at 50Hz, then surely all the US material will have to be converted to 50Hz too, or will it broadcast at it's original 60Hz? Sorry, realise this is going OT now, but it's still tied to 360 HD standards I guess...
     
  9. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,199
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,241
    These days most material is formatted directly for either 50Hz or 60Hz. Transcoding is seldom necessary apart from the odd Tv show.

    The 360 as far as I'm aware only supports 60Hz on hidef output. It does not upscale SD material.
     
  10. rEVILospud

    rEVILospud
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,295
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Shoreham-by-Sea
    Ratings:
    +235
    Yes I believe this is true.
    That's not true. If you stream SD video through media centre on your XBox 360 than it outputs the video as 60Hz HD (basically it outputs at the resolution you have it set to in the options).
    Since our HDTV's accept 60Hz HD, if you say you have an HDTV in the Xbox 360 options then it knows it can output this and your display will be able to handle it.
    As I said earlier: You only have the option of outputting 50 Hz when you use a non-HD connection (i.e. Scart or Composite).

    There is no need for anyone to produce 50Hz HD material as you need an HDTV to view HD and they all support 60Hz. This doesn't mean that they won't, just that they shouldn't. The only 50Hz material with HD resolution is upscaled SD stuff.
     
  11. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,199
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,241

    Nice to know about the streaming.

    50Hz material doesn't have 3:2 pulldown issues ( for film based material) although as most digital panels refresh at a fixed 60Hz regardless this is somewhat moot and properly mastered 60Hz material is only slightly more convoluted to deinterlace than 50Hz anyway ( doesn't stop them mucking it up though). 50Hz film material suffers from pitch shift though.
     
  12. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    14,236
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +3,101
    Even if you set your XBOX360 to output 720p it will not when you play a DVD. It outputs at 576P (I have no knowledge of streamed SD media). It is also not very good at de-interlacing.....but that's another story.

    Gordon
     
  13. Munkey Boy

    Munkey Boy
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2003
    Messages:
    16,960
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +4,473
    Exactly, and this is what confuses simpletons like me - why will SkyHD be 50Hz if there's no need for it to be? If it's purely for the upscaled SD stuff, then it sounds like an inelegant solution to me.

    And aren't there issues streaming 50Hz stuff via the 360 - ie. you get jerky pictures because the 360 outputs at 60Hz?
     
  14. rEVILospud

    rEVILospud
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,295
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Shoreham-by-Sea
    Ratings:
    +235
    Yeah, thats true. Everything you play through your Xbox 360 will be upscaled to the resolution you have set in the options (720p @ 60Hz for example) except DVD's (which will play 576p @ 50Hz). Which is annoying as thats the only thing I would've wanted it to upscale really.
    You are probably right about the de-interlacing too, DVD playback leaves alot to be desired.

    I think some people have complained about the 50 Hz --> 60Hz conversion exibiting problems, but can't be bothered to search for it.

    I think SkyHD would only use 50Hz for HD mainly because the majority of their HD content will actually be 50Hz SD upscaled stuff and perhaps they're trying to avoid a 50Hz --> 60Hz conversion problem. (As Gavan said earlier)
     
  15. gavan

    gavan
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Messages:
    3,984
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Rapture
    Ratings:
    +287
    576p is in 50Hz, right? So it looks like the Xbox360 can at least output _progressive scan_ at a 50Hz screen refresh.

    I wonder would it be so hard to to 720p at 50Hz then....?


    Gav
     
  16. Mike@Portugal

    [email protected]
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    Messages:
    95
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Maputo
    Ratings:
    +1
    I suppose Xbox 360 can output 1080i and 720p at 50Hz but for some reason MS didn't enabled that :thumbsdow and because of that there is stuttering in 50hz material :suicide:

    But the biggest shot in the foot is that the DVD Player outputs at 640x480 with the VGA Cable, what a ****ing retards!!

    I guess they suppose NTSC standards are the only ones that matter.
     
  17. pomegran

    pomegran
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Messages:
    238
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Ratings:
    +9
    Interesting thread which I have been talking about for a while on these forums.

    I use my xbox360 as an extender and therefore have to plug in an rgb lead to watch Freeview at the right frame rate i.e. 50Hz. Menus look nowhere near as sharp as component 1080i obviously. I then have to put component back in to watch .ts files for 1080i!

    Microsoft clearly don't know anything about PAL 50Hz material ....
     
  18. Pebb

    Pebb
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    13,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Eastleigh
    Ratings:
    +829
    You can do 50hz 720p and 1080i, but if you want the true HD experince then get a HDTV which can run 60hz 720p and 1080i. But give it another year or 2 before we may start to see 100hz 720p or 1080i HDTV's.
     
  19. Mike@Portugal

    [email protected]
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    Messages:
    95
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Maputo
    Ratings:
    +1
    No you can't, Xbox 360 does not allow to change Hz when you use component cable (720p or 1080i)

    Basically, it's a US console... they don't give a **** about 50Hz :mad:
     
  20. Jordans Norks

    Jordans Norks
    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Messages:
    1,700
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +56
    which if you have a "HD ready" labelled TV won't matter since to get that label the TV must accept both 50 and 60 Hz at both 720p and 1080i
     
  21. dfisher_uk

    dfisher_uk
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    459
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Ratings:
    +40
    Hey,

    I got Top Spin 2 this week & just unwrapped it there & put it in the disc drive to play it for the first time! Unfortunately I'm getting a message stating:

    "This game does not support PAL-50. Please change your display setting to Pal-60..."

    Though when I go to display to change it to Pal 60 there is no option :rolleyes::(

    Am I missing something here?
     
  22. CrispyXUK

    CrispyXUK
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    3,774
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Land of the Living, Essex
    Ratings:
    +49
    I've got a few of them, they call em monitors :)
     
  23. DragonOfSilver

    DragonOfSilver
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,085
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +73
    Presumably its the same stupid euro-pal bug as DAO4, you have to drop down to SD mode on component/composite cable and set 60hz option, then switch back to HD or vga before being able to play.
     
  24. dfisher_uk

    dfisher_uk
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    459
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Ratings:
    +40
    Poor, very poor! I've got it sorted by flipping the switch on the component cable > changing it to 60hz on the 360 display menu then flipping it back!

    :rolleyes:
     
  25. DragonOfSilver

    DragonOfSilver
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,085
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +73
    Yep, thats the one. and it is very poor.. I'm unimpressed that a game released well after doa4 still has it.
     

Share This Page

Loading...