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Can someone explain the difference between the formats to me DD, DTS, Ex, etc

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by tuttonp, Jan 28, 2003.

  1. tuttonp

    tuttonp
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    I'm now confused about these new formats, I had set out to buy a replacement 5,1 amp on the grounds there is no physical way I can add any more speakers in our small living room!!. Now the Pioneer VSX-D711 offers DD, DTS, DPLII and 'Virtual 6.1', and the Yamaha DSP-AX630SE offers DD, DTS, DPLII, Dolby Digital EX and is 'DTS -ES compatible', is the Yamaha just offering more than I need and I should save my money ??. What is 'discrete' is this another way of saying virtual or something completely different ??
     
  2. juboy

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    Dolby Digital - either 2 channel or 5.1 channels 'discrete' sound.
    (Discrete basically meaning an actual, disctinct channel)
    DTS - 5.1 channel of discrete sound.
    DD EX - where a matrixed sound is taken from the two standard rear channels and output in an additional, sixth, rear centre channel (one or two speakers produced the same channel/sound).
    DTS ES Matrix - pretty much as above.
    DTS ES Discrete - where the sixth channel is a truly standalone channel of sound information, independant of the two other rears.

    DD has no equivalent of a discrete 6th channel as yet.
     
  3. Ian J

    Ian J
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    The AV faq on the drop down menu at the top of the page will answer all of your questions even though it would appear that Juboy has already answered them three times :D
     
  4. Jerry Maguire

    Jerry Maguire
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    Dolby Digital can also be Mono.:)
     
  5. juboy

    juboy
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    At it's best and fullest potential, yes.
     
  6. juboy

    juboy
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    I've got an itchy trigger finger this morning :)
     
  7. tuttonp

    tuttonp
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    Ian J and Juboy - Thanks for the pointers (to the FAQ especially) . To clarify if I only have a 5.1 setup will I benefit/hear anyy difference between a normal dd 5.1 soundtrack and an Ex, etc 6.1 soundtrack ????
     
  8. juboy

    juboy
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    No, you won't. You'd need a 6.1 capable amplifier (or additional power amp if your 5.1 amp can output a 6th line level channel) and at least one extra rear speaker to be able to hear any difference.
     
  9. tuttonp

    tuttonp
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    Juboy - I am planning on buying a 6.1 amp, but would still only be driving 5.1 channels i.e no phisyical rear centre. Will the soundtrack downmix the 6th channel's info into the std rear effects speakers thus adding additional information to the sound or will the soundtrack be merely a 5.1 soundtrack ??. Getting myself confused now !!
     
  10. juboy

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    At the risk of maybe sounding harsh (but not intending to), why aren't you also buying a sixth speaker(s)? That way you get the flexibility to use your new amp to it's potential.
     
  11. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    At least some processors have the ability to mix the surround back channel in a DTS ES mix into the surround left and right speakers if there are no surround back speakers present. Maybe they all do, I don't know.
     
  12. tuttonp

    tuttonp
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    Juboy - A number of reasons

    a. Physical space - we have a small front room and the two chairs actually sit against the back wall so can't put rears behind them

    b. "If you put any more bl**dy speakers in this house I'm leaving"

    Nuff said
     
  13. juboy

    juboy
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    Result! :D

    Seriously though, probably not a lot of point spending the extra on a 5.1 amp is there?
     
  14. tuttonp

    tuttonp
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    Well I'd narrowed it down to a new Pioneer VSX-D711 @ £229 or a S/H (read 3wk old) Yamaha DSP-AX630SE for £250, just thought the Yamaha's have always been a more popular buy, the price difference was small enough and you never know we might move and then I might be able to sneek that 6th speaker in :D.

    I've already sold my current DD amp, so I have to buy something.
     
  15. andyrap

    andyrap
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    Regarding the differences in sound formats, what is the difference between ES and "ES Compatible" as on the Yam 630 (in DSP or RDS flavours)?

    These models do not carry the DTS-ES logo on them - that only happens when you get further up the range, and then it is referred to as DTS-ES not "ES Compatible".

    Is the "compatible" perhaps some Yamaha proprietary decoding that works out cheaper than paying DTS the license for ES?

    Most of the stuff I've read about it says 6.1, discrete DTS, blah blah blah but no mention of the "compatible" difference.

    Confusing. Any thoughts? How likely is my "Yamaha ES" theory?
     
  16. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Yes, not just Yamaha as most others also did it for a while.
     
  17. Matt F

    Matt F
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    I'm afraid I can't agree with Juboy's answer here.

    EX/ES matrixed soundtracks are not hidden to normal 5.1 decoders - they are replayed through the two standard rear channels i.e. you will hear the content of the matrixed soundtrack in a standard 5.1 set up. The difference with an EX/ES decoder is that the matrixed soundtrack is extracted from the normal surround channels and played back through the "surround back" channel via one or two speakers.

    DTS ES discrete is hidden to normal 5.1 decoders BUT, as I understand it, all DTS ES discrete soundstracks are accompanies by a matrixed ES soundtrack so you won't actually miss anything you'll just here the matrixed rather then the discrete version of the surround back channel and it will be replayed through your two regular surround speakers along with the rest of the surround information.

    Matt.
     
  18. juboy

    juboy
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    So, you still hear all 6 channels information through 5 channels. I fail to see how this is wildly different than hearing 5 channels information through 5 channels?

    I concede though that ALL soundtracks will sound different, no matter what equipment you play them on as each will contain sound effects 'placed' in different areas of the soundstage.

    Re-reading my answer, it maybe wasn't clear enough but I had a feeling tuttop thought he might be able to achieve some kind of 6th channel effect on a 5.1 set-up simply by playing a 6.1 encoded disc. My brief point was, and always been, that to take full advantage and hear the 6.1 soundtrack as intended, you need a 6.1 amp and at least one 6th speaker.
     
  19. Matt F

    Matt F
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    The difference is that the extra channel of information is heard rather than not heard, albeit through the regular rear speakers.

    I wasn't having a pop, just setting the record straight as there seems to be a common misconception (which I used to subscribe to before someone put me right) that the matrixed channel is hidden to all but those with 6.1 decoders (and a 6 or 7 speaker set up). The truth of the matter is that it is not hidden - it is perfectly audible and is replayed in equal proportions through the normal surround left/right speakers.

    However, as you say, to hear the 6th channel as it is intended to be replayed you do require a 6.1 decoder and one or two surround back speakers.

    :)

    Matt.
     

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