Can I mix and match?.

[The Snake]

I am thinking of getting some speakers to go with my Cambridge Audio 340R which I got last week. At the moment I have just got very cheap ones (5.1).

The problem is space.

I have looked at the quad Lites based on peoples posting here (and given they are discounted), however, I can't use the base and front speaker as they are too big (also can't source black).

Three questions.

1. If I get the front and back (side sat. speakers not the front itself) Lite speakers, is it ok to match them with a different front and base.

2. Could anymore advise me of a front speaker that is very good but isn't very tall, say approx. 3 inch in height max.

3. Could someone advise me a smallish but good base.

Thanks a bunch in anticipation.

 

[Badger0-0]

Can't help on the centre, but it's usually best to stick to the same make/range.

However, when it comes to subwoofers, your best bet is here;

www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers.htm

The XLS200 is about as low as you should go for a "proper" sub, but if that's too big, the smaller ones would do a decent job.
They may seem pricey, but they're extremely good and actually very good value

 

[cribeiro]

2. Could anymore advise me of a front speaker that is very good but isn't very tall, say approx. 3 inch in height max.

That's less than 10cm, right? I don't think you can get any decent sound off anything that size, but maybe someone comes with a solution.

It is hard to understand why all other speakers can be bigger, but not the most important ones

 

[The Snake]

The prob. is I have my tv on a small stand in the left side corner, the only place for the front speaker is on top of the stand, literally in front of the tv.

I could go with a larger centre speaker but it would be behind the tv?, can I put the centre speaker behind the tv?, I would have thought not.

I could (although it would look a little odd) mount the 'centre' speaker on the other side of the room, i.e. the right hand side (there is a fire place in the middle), but I thought that would be odd and sound funny?.

Any suggestions, thanks a bunch for your replies.

 

[DolbyDan]

A monitor audio R180, for size and sound, would probably be your best bet if you had to mix and match your front sound stage.

Other than that a KEF HTS5001

 

[cribeiro]

A monitor audio R180, for size and sound, would probably be your best bet if you had to mix and match your front sound stage.

Other than that a KEF HTS5001

... If they weren't 4 times taller than he asked.


Snake, the center speaker must go on top, below or in front of the tv, nowhere else. As you said, it will sound funny otherwise.

Could you post a couple of pictures of your room? I am now interested to see your possibilities

 

[DolbyDan]

Def need pictures I'm confused by what you want

 

[The Snake]

Thanks

I will post pictures of my room tomorrow, and then I will let you decide exactly where and what I should put in there as I have only little speakers at the moment to test the sound etc, but even then I really like the surround sound, and I would like to get a really good sound.

The girlfriend has 'accepted' some speakers on show being in the room.

My room is a little different to most on here, it is very traditional.

 

[The Snake]

This is the tv as you walk in the room, I need a gold mirror above the fire place, the last one fell off. The tv has been pushed to the back of the stand to may room for the front speaker. It looks better at the front of the stand, really classy. It is a Sammy 32inch, I will be getting a 40" tosh ZF (thin bezzle thing) in the January sales if the reviews are good. Cuddle chair on right, big sofa on left behind footstool.

This is my stack. Sky HD will go on order soon, hopefully I will pick it up cheap as I like bargains . I have a cambridge 340 (got from advice on here), cheap EP-30 HD DVD (got from advice on here and I love it). A cheap panny speakers 5.1 set. I have stuck the front speaker on top and two in the cabinet and the woofer on the side to tied me over for a bit. I would like the tv to move to the front of the stand as it looks smart at the front.

TV from another angle. The back speaker wires showing. I can run them under the carpet and skirting board no probs to behind the sofa. Could put woofer behind the chair under the bay windows, not sure.

The main event, FAB sofa with big footstool, expertly mounted speakers. Sofa needs plumping desperately.

This is the cuddle chair and cat chair, cannot put much behind because of wires from tv going infront of fireplace. Need a corner dvd unit, a vase lamp and a plant.

This is Lulu the Cat

I guess I need small speakers, I assume I will mount the satellites above the big sofa either side (1 foot above head height), I could the put the base under the bay windows or behind the tv stand (not sure), The centre I don't know what to do with (I don't like it at the front of the stand), could I seperately mount it next to the tv as get a big flash one, the front sats can stay in the tv unit?. The cuddle chair space is difficult to use due to it having the fireplace in between

Any ideas what would be best to use and where to place, and the best look to complement the room which has an oldish look.

Thanks in advance.

 

[DolbyDan]

Nice cosy lounge, the quads in the rosewood would look gorgeous in there, but I think the center is too big for your stand, have a measure up.

Whats your budget?

A KEF HTS5001 in gloss black would look excellent on your TV cabinet and fit snug.



When you say base, do you mean the subwoofer? if so you can put that any where.

The KEF 1005.2s would fit and look perfectly in your room, but they won't sound quite as good as the Quads, but at least there all matching. I recently got the KEF 1005.1s for my nan and they sound good to me and look cool on stands.

 

[cribeiro]

Nice.

You really need real wood veneer, or at least fake one It will match the room looks very well.

I would go for wall-mounted satellites, like the Castle Compact ones (sound very good too, have several veneers and are discontinued [company went into administration], so you may find a very good deal). There must be also similar sized satellites from other companies, the Castle is just an example regarding size and specs. The Quad L-ites are probably also a very good choice, but I have not heard them myself. The problem is that they are ported, so you can't put them so close to the rear wall... You could as well close the ports with thick (and clean! ) socks.

The center speaker can be also wall-mounted on top of the screen.


As already suggested, the subwoofer (you called it base?) can go anywhere in the room.

 

[The Snake]

Thanks a bunch.

I was thinking about rosewood quads but the girlfriend said they look a bit red. I know they do the 5.1 set on discount hence I was quite into them. I will pop into my local superfi if they have some to have a look. Although the ported thing worries me.

I can't wall mount, as the room as just be decorated and the wallpaper was an absolute sod to find (It goes a golden colour in direct sunlight hence the room doesn't look dull in the daytime, then a soft brown in the evening). What does ported mean?. if I put quads next to the wall at the back of the sofa will the sound go funny.

I will look into the KEF's and the castles. Could I put the centre on a little stand just next to the tv where the woofer is ?. Will it look and sound funny. Then move the woofer to a corner.

 

[DolbyDan]

Sometimes putting rear ported speakers near walls sound better I wouldn't worry considering your not going to put them on the wall.

How about a different direction. How about no centre speaker but very small attractive floor standers like either Monitor Audio Radius or Bronze. I think they will sound better as well considering you put the front surrounds in your cabinet. You can even get away without a subwoofer.



These are the cheaper but bigger Bronze BR5, I must emphasize in the flesh they are very compact, even my gf liked them

 

[Badger0-0]

Sometimes putting rear ported speakers near walls sound better

And it can make them decidedly worse when it comes to boom

 

[The Snake]

Sometimes putting rear ported speakers near walls sound better I wouldn't worry considering your not going to put them on the wall.

How about a different direction. How about no centre speaker but very small attractive floor standers like either Monitor Audio Radius or Bronze. I think they will sound better as well considering you put the front surrounds in your cabinet. You can even get away without a subwoofer.



These are the cheaper but bigger Bronze BR5, I must emphasize in the flesh they are very compact, even my gf liked them

Those would look good behind the sofa but what would go next to the tv. Could I put them behind the tv aswell and move the tv forward. If I went for my ZF then they would block the speakers behind. What do I do about the centre, losing the centre worries me?.

Don't understand ported.

Die Hards on ITV 2 by the way. Argyles limo stereo sound good in 5.1.

 

[cribeiro]

"Ported" means that it has a "bass reflex port", that is basically an opening. If it is on the back, then you should not go too close to the back wall, because this reinforces the frequencies outputted through that opening (which are below those reproduced by the drivers on the front), and can cause an uneven response known as "1-note boom" (hence Badger's comment). With "bass-shy" speakers, some reinforcement can be beneficial to a point (hence mendd3 comment).

You can always stuff the port with a sock, just reducing the bass output of the loudspeaker (I believe it also tightens the sound, which is good). Assuming you will get a subwoofer, this is not such a big problem.


Even if you have the floor space for floorstanders, they would look too clustered. If you can't wall-mount, I'd go for neat and slim standers and the bookshelf speakers of your choice (keeping in mind what I said before, too. The wall will be very close to the speaker. But just play around with the socks, and you'll see if you like it or not).

A subwoofer is a must, unless you have high-end loudspeakers which basically have a subwoofer built-in. But it is the icing in the cake, first you must sort out everything else (what an icing, though ). Note that it does not need to be of the same make as the loudspeakers (forum favourites: SVS and BK).

With your room layout, a center speaker won't be needed at all, because the main speaker will be very close to the tv anyway. The problem may be that your receiver applies dynamic range compression to the dolby digital material if you don't have a center speaker (check it, maybe it does not).

You must also put the rears on stands and further away from the seating position, for a better surround experience.

 

[DolbyDan]

I was actually meaning putting them next to your TV cabinet and your Cambridge audio amp will make a phantom centre speaker.

The benefits are you will have a much better soundstage incomparison having 3 small speakers in a triangle configuration in your cabinet.

The speakers I mentioned come in many finishes and once sitting next to the cabinet will blend in very well.

For rear surrounds I wouldn't recommend getting more floorstanders, but bookshelves like the quads, the matching bookshelves to the floorstanders are called BR1, which are about the same size as the quad lite bookshelves.

http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/range.php?range=8

P.s. I take back the comment about not having a sub. Movies deserve a sub!!

 

[cribeiro]

mendd3, I understood you right

Still, I think that two floorstanders flanking the screen won't look good, too clustered.

I agree about the center speaker, but if the receiver applies DRC if none is connected, I think it is really needed (DRC is nice when needed, but awful if you want to enjoy the movie in its full glory).


The soundstage will be quite limited by the geometry of this layout anyway.

I have a feeling that the Castles or Quads will sound better than the MAs with his receiver, but that's just a feeling In the end, it also depends on his preference regarding sound. The MAs will be probably livelier sounding?

Snake, in any case, this will sound much better than your present setup

 

[DolbyDan]

I wasn't referring to you mate

Cribeiro the Bronzes are really quite small and putting quads on stands probably would take more space up believe it or not, the BR5s not much bigger than my R270s

They don't need tons of amplification to drive them either if run with a sub.

Its hard to call, speakers are such a personal thing, only Snake's ears can say.

 

[The Snake]

I'm thinking of getting the Monitor Audio R90's for the front and back (not sure about the centre and woof.).

Are they pants?.

They are twice the price of the quad lites, i'm not sure?, I get the feeling i'm paying more but getting less although I listened to some quads today and I thought well they are ok but nothing more.

My thoughts are the MA's R90's are smaller and I can fit them in the cabinet easier and I like the finish on them, the walnut's particularly very nice and would match the fireplace. In addition I get the feeling I could match them better to a monitor centre speaker from the range if I wanted to later?.

Could I put some R1's at the back and R90's at the front to save a bit of money as R1's cheaper. Is this advisable?.

This speaker thing is doing my head in. If the quad lite 5.1 set in black was going to £500 I would have just bought it, now i'm thinking of buying bits and pieces of this and bits and pieces of that and confused.

 

[cribeiro]

Are you talking about the Radius 90?

Good speakers don't have that wow factor you get with those that fake bass and enhance treble to scream "buy me!", but they grow on you with time, as you realize how good they reproduce every bit of the spectrum with equal measure.

In which cabinet do you want to fit them? That's usually not a good idea. If I were you, I'd get the bookshelf speakers of your choice and put them on slim stands at both sides of the tv.

I'd go bookshelf because they are cheaper and the bass will be reproduced by the sub anyway. In your case, additionally, I think they will look better on slim stands than if you put two floorstanders (mendd3, it's not that they take less space physically, I just think they would look as taking less space ).

 

[The Snake]

Are you talking about the Radius 90?

Good speakers don't have that wow factor you get with those that fake bass and enhance treble to scream "buy me!", but they grow on you with time, as you realize how good they reproduce every bit of the spectrum with equal measure.

In which cabinet do you want to fit them? That's usually not a good idea. If I were you, I'd get the bookshelf speakers of your choice and put them on slim stands at both sides of the tv.

I'd go bookshelf because they are cheaper and the bass will be reproduced by the sub anyway. In your case, additionally, I think they will look better on slim stands than if you put two floorstanders (mendd3, it's not that they take less space physically, I just think they would look as taking less space ).

Yes the Radius 90. Aren't they bookshelf speakers?. Do they output base aswell?. Are you saying don't bother with the Radius 90 because i'm duplicating base.

Right, try this. See if this floats your boat.

I get some rather nice (but cheap) MA R1's in lovely walnut (I can't do the floorstanding ones they are 'too much' and if I increase my screen they will interfere, the space next to cabinet is tighter than it looks on the photo)

I get some wee little stands (say 1.5 foot high) and I stick them next to the tv cabinet with the R1's on there.

I get some larger stands and stick some R1's on there next to the sofa.

I get an XLS200 subwoofer and stick that under the bay window behind the sofa.

I get a centre speaker stick that on the floor in front of the tv stand and blue tack the cat to the top of it to disguise it.

 

[cribeiro]

Yes the Radius 90. Aren't they bookshelf speakers?. Do they output base aswell?. Are you saying don't bother with the Radius 90 because i'm duplicating base.

Yes, they are bookshelf, but the name does not mean they sound good there or inside a cabinet.
They have a port on the rear, and will output sound through there, which will be increased and make an awful "boom" inside a cabinet.

I get some rather nice (but cheap) MA R1's in lovely walnut (I can't do the floorstanding ones they are 'too much' and if I increase my screen they will interfere, the space next to cabinet is tighter than it looks on the photo)

I get some wee little stands (say 1.5 foot high) and I stick them next to the tv cabinet with the R1's on there.

I get some larger stands and stick some R1's on there next to the sofa.

I get an XLS200 subwoofer and stick that under the bay window behind the sofa.

I get a centre speaker stick that on the floor in front of the tv stand and blue tack the cat to the top of it to disguise it.

I cannot find the R1, sorry. Is it bronze?
I agree about the floorstanders

Although 1.5foot is not really high for the stands, if they interfere with the tv you have no choice. Bring them as high as you can, the best height would be the tv one. Maybe it is better if you lower the screen a bit, and have higher stands, so that the speakers are a bit above the screen. You could play with this and see how it sounds/looks/integrates with your room better.


Regarding the rears, try to place them good above ear level, and as far from your seating position as you can. This will help making the surround experience more convincing. Surround speakers next to you impress at first, but after a while you realize that they actually distract you from the movie, rather than making it more involving.

As I said, you will not need a center speaker, so put the rest of the budget in a better subwoofer which you can place anywhere in the room.

 

[The Snake]

I've decided to go for the quads.

I'm going to mount them next to the sofa pointing to the middle of room at 3 feet high so they come above the sofa and head height, i'm going to play independently with the volume and the angle so they aren't too imposing on the ear.

The ones next to the tv i'm going to raise to 3 feet height and have them snug next to the tv.

I'm going for the quads because they are slightly cheaper than the BR1's (sorry, I said the R1's that should have been the bronze BR1's). Also I somehow think they will sound better and the black would look better mounted next to the tv. Also they are smaller hence if I go for a 40" Tosh ZF they I should still have enough room to fit the smaller quads at 3 feet high by the side. If I don't like them next to tv they are smaller than the BR1's hence I can still put them in the cabinet as a last resort.

The ones snug next to the tv should act as a virtual front speaker, at least I think they should?.

The woofers going in the bay window corner.

The fronts (or should I say lack of centre) are still giving me grief though, I somehow think I won't be able to hear anyone speak?. What comes out the centre?, isn't it more spoken word?. I hate it when i'm listening to a film and the spoken word sounds muffled. What will the amp do if there no centre speaker given its on 5.1?, whats all this DRC stuff about?. I don't understand.

 

[cribeiro]

Don't worry, it takes time to get all of this right.
I like the placement you are planning 3 feet sounds much better
If you must bring them into the cabinet, stuff the rear openings with socks and they will have less bass, but sound better (the bass can be managed with the subwoofer anyway).
Regarding speaker choice, it is really up to your taste, give a listening to the MA bronzes, maybe you like them more and then believe they are worth the extra money Listen specially to voices, which one do you like better? You said it is important to you Any of them will be a big jump with respect to your present ones, I believe.

The center speaker serves only to locate the dialog in the middle of the screen independently of your seating position. Since your left and right are already close to each other, you will have no problem with that. The receiver (amp) will mix the signal into the left and right, so you will not miss any bit of the dialogue.

The only problem is if you like to listen to the soundtrack with full dynamics, and your receiver limits this due to the lack of center (you must ask if it does, not all do).

Full dynamics means that effects like explosions sound specially loud (like being there) with respect to the dialog, and quiet passages specially quiet (again, like being there). The DRC makes the loud passages quieter and the quiet ones louder. Depending on your viewing/listening habits, it may even be good.