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Can consoles 'think' ?

Discussion in 'Nintendo Forums' started by Taz, Jul 23, 2002.

  1. Taz

    Taz
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    Just wondering if consoles can 'think' within reason??

    Could you get chess on xbox or Monopoly on GC ??

    I see the sims are coming to Xbox thats whats sparked this thread!:)


    Taz.:cool:
     
  2. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
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    Hardware by itself is nothing but a piece of electronics (in terms of consoles and PCs). To use such hardware though requires software and thats exactly what A.I is.

    At times like these I wish I could remember most of my computer science lessons >_< I'm sure John could answer this in a more precise manner than I can.

    The current crop of consoles have enough CPU power to crunch such possibilities, speed though would vary depending on the programming skills used and how complex the scene is to calculate.

    The PS2 has a true 128-bit CPU which was custom built, the Xbox has an Intel Celeron and the GameCube has a modified Power PC CPU... Very different in terms of architecture which gives them many strengths and weaknesses... And no, CPUs should not be based on their MHz speed alone, since those days have long gone - Before most CPUs were idential in terms of architecture bar the MHz speed, thesedays though its down to what you do with the information as much as how fast you can get it, crunch it, etc.

    I can't remember the min specs of The Sims but I'm sure it can't be that high. After all its hardly a complex game in terms of rendering polygons, so a lot of resources would be dedicated in running the A.I and memory management. The Xbox has the advantage of using the HDD as a scratch disk so data can be stored there temporarily as your decisions will affect future scenes... A great example of this would be the up and coming Project Ego - Say in battle you accidentally hit a kid and scarred his face... Once a few years have past the person would have grown into a man with the scar intact, wanting revenge for your previous actions.

    I'm sure Nintendo were planning to use their SD-Adapter as a HDD as well but there hasn't been any news on that piece of hardware since it was announced with the Gamecube a long time ago...

    To sum it up, the consoles can "think" within reason, its just down to what the developers want it to think by giving it A.I and a large database.
     
  3. Taz

    Taz
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    :eek:


    Wow! thanks for that great reply!

    Cheers

    Taz.:cool:
     
  4. Squiffy

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    In the strictest terms they can't think. A competition is held each year to see if any computer can pass the Turing test. The Turing test is where a human will hold a conversation (typed into a terminal) with either a human or a computer. If they can't tell the difference, then the computer is passed is 'intelligent'.

    To date none has passed, but one particular program has received a 'silver' award in the competition for the last couple of years.

    Many philosophers will believe that 'thinking' is beyond the reach of machines. But people like Turing held the view that if a machine can react like a human, then what is the practical difference?

    Pacific Blue is an IBM system that plays chess. It has had some very close battles with Kasparov and has even won a game.

    Games like Half Life with the 'black ops' troops are renowned for their human-like reactions and tactics.

    As to whether we'll ever have a sentient, self-aware machine.... how do you know I'm a real person? :p
     
  5. NeoBlade

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    Again it would be dependant on software as much as hardware. On the hardware side things would have to be calculated at lightning fast speeds, whatever the complexity of the scene is. On the software front it must be programmed to understand logic, keywords within the question and then go back to their pre-conceived database for answers. Of course this database would grow depending on the amount of input given by humans.

    After all, machines are not perfect due to human error as it takes on to bulid one, as it does to make them intelligent. Emulating the human brain would take many years to do so... After all, how many of us know how the human brain works in detail in the first place? Only once you have obtained that knowledge and the ruleset, then you can start emulating the brain. Of course a computer would have the advantage of having a larger memory bank since you could keep on adding HDDs, but as for calculating logic, sarcasam and other feats that make us human would require hefty programming and processing power.

    I have seen programs on the PC that start out as individual cells that become intelligent by prompting them to act. It essentially emulates the brain by working together to achieve a goal and then multiplying. Again if John was reading he could answer all of this with more sense and facts ^_^

    A.I for videogames would be easier to do, since in Half Life the variables are controlled... Thats not to say there are only a few variables, just a lot less than programming an A.I character to live in the real world. Personalities would be easier to do as well since you could just take a sample of the novice gamers, veterans and experts and then compile a database and ruleset for those 3 levels, each taking different actions on the same scene depening on skill alone.
    After all, what seperates a good gamer from an expert isn't just knowledge but how one would react to a certain scene and with what efficiency. You will always watch novice gamers waste bullets to gain one frag, but you will always watch an expert take two or more frags with one railgun shot...

    Honda though has a sweet robot, after all they've spent about 60 million or more on it. If you haven't seen it before I suggest a lil look... Its all rather impressive.
     
  6. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    A computer thinks as much as an insect thinks (I believe that was the current comparision).

    The problem at the moment is the processing of images and information. Computers are excellent at producing complicated images and massive stores of knowledge, but they are very poor at processing/receiving them.

    The human brain excels at discounting information (much to the bane of the female species :p ), current computers cannot effectively discard and filter information they have to compute everything first.

    Also image recognition is EXTREMELY difficult, we have a lot of "specialist" systems created through evolution, which does it automatically.

    There is no doubt that a computer should eventually gain a comparative intelligence (IMO), I subscribe mainly to the theories of complexity (the more complex the brain becomes the greater the intelligence). Therefore the more complex we make machines the more likely they are to develop a sentient mind (hence why I like watching Ghost in the Shell so much :p).
     
  7. NeoBlade

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    Hehe good man. You should also try out Serial Experiments Lain as that will interest anyone who are into technology, computers and the internet. And no its not a geeky animé, its just very psychological, much more than Ghost in the Shell as the cyborgs question their own "Ghost".. It'll certainly make you think more about technology as it is...

    Going back, sure computers by itself are dumb and if you do nothing at all with them, they will do nothing in return. I'm just saying that if you give them a base and a ruleset to learn and to evolve, (as we do naturally as we grow up) then that will change. I don't know how many of you guys have seen that Honda robot in action or not, but its certainly not dim. It can walk up and down stairs with ease, has facial recognition and I'm sure voice recognition. It can move and act independantly and I'm sure if you teach it, it can do the ironing for you too ^_^

    Sony are going into the robotics arena big time having made the Sony Aibo. Their next creation is a small robot which can recognise individual faces, and can adapt languages depending on what is spoken to it. It has also incorporated a base of emotions, so if it trips over, it will pick itself up and give the user a smile. If he or she asks if the robot is okay, the robot will respond saying something like "I am alright, thank you for your concern" and then give out an animé smile with its hand on the back of its head.

    Okay that was an awful example, but its been a while since I've visited the robotic scene ^_^

    For a computer to think, it needs to be taught some basics, just as humans do once born. Once some rules have been established it can then go about on its own to evolve. For a computer to think exactly like a human though would take a fair few decades, since there needs to be more procressing power and I'm sure some more programming feats.
     

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