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Can composite be as good as S-video?

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Der_Pobman, May 6, 2002.

  1. Der_Pobman

    Der_Pobman
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    Would people agree with this:

    "S-Video inputs advantage is it keeps the chroma and luminance (Y-C) information separate. However, unless the original video source material and the delivery system also does this (like DBS, S-VHS, HI-8) you really don't get any benefit out of it. When you have both a video source (ie. laser disc player) and a television monitor with S-Video jacks, you then have your choice of where the chroma luminance separation occurs, being either done in the video source or in the television.

    When you use composite video input to your TV, the TV must still separate the Y-C components to display the video on the screen. The quality of this separation depends upon the quality of the comb filter in your TV.

    A comb filter is NOT used for S-Video, this means that a TV with an analog comb filter looks just as good as those with a digital comb filter IF you're using the S-Video input.

    All the S-Video input does is give you the option of having the video source perform this Y-C separation, instead of having the TV monitor do this. If the video source has a better quality comb filter, then you want to use the S-Video input, if your TV monitor has the better comb filter (ie. digital comb filter) then you will want to use the composite video input.
    "

    Taken from:
    http://members.accessus.net/~090/awh/how2adj.html#3.0a

    In a nutshell its saying composite can look as good as S-video if you have a good digital combfilter in your TV. If so it would explain why i really cant see any differance between composite and S-video on my TV, both look superb. As does RGB and VGA. However people keep saying on this board that s-video is much better than composite, is this always the case?

    Regards

    Der Pobman
     
  2. steev

    steev
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    I don't know about the technicallities, but I tried running my Acoustic Solutions DVD into the oldish Hitachi widescreen TV using composite, S-Video and RGB using a mix of cables, none of them particularly special. The result is that I see very little difference between in the picture. The colours change a little and the picture may shift around the screen, but I find it hard to say one is better than another. The RGB and S-Video may be slightly sharper, but not by much.

    I would be interested to try a better cable to see the difference, but I can live with what I'm getting now.

    When you turn on the DVD the TV swicthes to it in composite mode and this is how the rest of the family watch it. I'm the only one who bothers to change to RGB, but that's just because I hope that will be slightly better.

    Steve
     
  3. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Your assumption is correct, as is the article you quote.

    S-Video will be better than composite only if the source material is s-video or higher (ie YUV, of digital satellite and DVD for instance). In those cases the component signal is downgraded to s-video or composite. With sources such as those the increase in performance with s-video over composite should be very obvious.

    Gordon
     
  4. Kevo

    Kevo
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    Steev

    I can't believe you can't notice much difference between composite and RGB.

    Composite is basically AWFUL when used with DVD and wouldn't dream of subjecting my family to watching DVD through it, that would be cruel!

    Maybe it's your SCART leads?

    Have a look at some on screen menus/text, surely then you can appreciate the quality of RGB.
     
  5. Der_Pobman

    Der_Pobman
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    Kevo
    On my Loewe I too really cant see any differance between any of the inputs. The only thing I will say is better is plugging the Dreamcast into VGA.

    I do run my DVD in RGB through the Scarts, however the image from composite looks just as good, though shifted ever so slightly down from RGB. Text is solid regardless of what I use.

    Regards

    Der Pobman
     
  6. Kevo

    Kevo
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    Now i'm confused, must be me then and imagined it all.

    I can only assume that there is something wrong with your set up somewhere.

    RGB and S-Video, yes i can handle that debate, but RGB and composite :confused:
     
  7. Der_Pobman

    Der_Pobman
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    When I had a JVC TV, and my old 28inch LG, then I too could see a HUGE differance. The text of the sky banner for instance would become crystal clear in RGB compared with Composite. However on the Loewe it looks the same, excellent on both counts. I am sure there is some difference there as everybody keeps saying on this board that there is, its just I cant see it anymore unlike on my old TVs.

    My mates Panasonic 32inch (model unknown) also shows a huge improvement for RGB (composite is awful on it). And my old LG used to put big black lines down the sides of peoples faces when conencted composite.

    The point of my original post was to see if it is this 'digital comb filter' which makes the difference.

    Regards

    Der Pobman
     
  8. M.Joshi

    M.Joshi
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    Have you set your DVD to RGB output?
     
  9. Der_Pobman

    Der_Pobman
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    Yes. On a loewe TV if you set the scart to RGB and then send composite or S-video to it you dont get any picture. On most TVs this is not the case I know. The scart is definately set to RGB. My point is the picture is very good in RGB, very good in S-video and very good in composite. I do know what a bad composite picture looks like, I got to see it every day when i worked at Currys many years ago.

    As I keep saying I posted the article simply to ask IF when you have a very good digital comb filter you can end up getting a picture via composite which is really good, ie so you cant really tell the difference. As this is what I have, and always wondered why. Seeing as everbody always tells me that RGB and S-video is always much much better than composite.

    I have only seen a few Philips TVs which match this quality for composite. All others have ranged from bad to average. So I agree that on most peoples TVs composite looks really bad (this was in fact the reason I quickly got rid of my cheap LG TV). Though I have not really seen any TVs launched in the last 8 months or so, perhaps things are better now.

    All I know is that for me the difference is so small I cant see it, and if this article is correct then I now understand the reason why.

    Regards

    Der Pobman
     
  10. steev

    steev
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    Kevo,

    I'm just saying what I see. The menus are readable. Maybe slightly clearer on RGB. The composite is via the SCART cable which is a slightly better than freebie sort, but not an Ixos or anything.

    Anyway, we're happy enough with what we get. No doubt some better kit would show it up as the low end it is, but we don't want to and can't afford thousands for our home entertainment. Having 2 kids and building a house account for not being able to afford it.

    Steve
     
  11. Guest

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    Originally posted by Kevo
    Now i'm confused, must be me then and imagined it all.

    I can only assume that there is something wrong with your set up somewhere.

    RGB and S-Video, yes i can handle that debate, but RGB and composite
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    agree entirely
    something is very wrong if you cannot tell the difference between composite and Svhs or RGB

    There is far more detail with rgb and svhs

    I recently had a spat with Kevo about eyesight, but agree 110% with him about this
     
  12. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Entirely agree with Gordon on this, now who is going to tell the SVHS crowd!
     
  13. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
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    Der Pobman,

    Have you looked at fine detail using composite, S-Video and RGB? By this I mean things like clothing with very fine dots, sand on the beach in Cast Away, and basically anything else that contains very fine detail that would usually exhibit "scrolling patterning" effects through composite and S-Video.

    If you have, and composite is still good, then indeed, Loewe TVs must have a first-class digital comb filter.
     
  14. radiostar

    radiostar
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    can i just check, when you refer to 'RGB' are you talking about component? I've always tended to use the term RGB to refer to the data input (ie. VGA input).

    radiostar
     
  15. Der_Pobman

    Der_Pobman
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  16. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
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    Component video is usually tied to progressive scanning and is common in the US, which splits the (two) luminance and (one) chrominance signals. Thus, YUV as opposed to RGB.

    RGB is not merely tied to computer technology, although it was arguably the earliest widespread use of it.
     
  17. Der_Pobman

    Der_Pobman
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    In answer to Squirrel. I dont have Cast Away yey, however looking at things like hair and fabric I cant see a difference between any inputs except the VGA (which is the best).

    I shall let it rest at that, I have my answer now.

    Regards

    Der Pobman
     
  18. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
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    I noticed it more when I paused and look at still frames. But it does sound like Loewe have incorporated a cracking DCF!!!

    Happy viewing! :)

    BTW, love your signature Pobman :p
     

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