Can Anyone Please Help with Panasonic UB9000 Questions/Concerns?

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
I own a Samsung UN65NU8000 and recently purchased a Panasonic DP-UB9000 Ultra HD Blu-ray player to replace a Cambridge Audio CXUHD unit that was connected to my NU that was giving me some trouble with DVD playback (and which their repair center couldn't fix even after sending the player out twice). While the Panasonic delivers gorgeous Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray images to the NU8000, I have some questions related to HDR settings and HDR10+ behavior as they relate to a special feature in the UB9000 called "HDR Optimizer"...

First of all, when I viewed UHD discs on my previous player, the Cambridge CXUHD, the unit would just send out the HDR10 signal (I didn't own any discs with HDR10+ yet) and I would leave the NU8000 in its default HDR-Movie mode settings (so Backlight would be maxed out, Contrast would be maxed out and Local Dimming would be on High), as I was told that this is what needed to be done so that the TV could tonemap the incoming signal properly. With the new Panasonic player, there's a feature called "HDR Optimizer," which is supposed to take HDR10 content and perform the tonemapping before it gets to the display, if I understand it right; it's an on/off toggle in the player's menus, with some sliders to adjust beneath it (for things like Tone Curve, Brightness and Dynamic Range, but I leave these on "0").

Now, when I watch discs that were previously really bright and punchy -- such as Aquaman and The Fate of the Furious -- on the Cambridge through the Panasonic with the HDR Optimizer ON, the image looks even BETTER, with incredibly punchy highlights and just more detail to the picture. In the Optimizer's menus, there's a setting for choosing the right kind of display that's connected to the player, and I leave this on "Middle/High Luminance LCD" for the NU8000, which is the default setting out of the box (the other selections are "OLED," "Super Bright Lumiance LCD," "Basic Luminance LCD" and two options for projectors); before I go any further -- should this "Middle/High" setting be correct for the NU, or should it be on "Basic Luminance LCD"?

Here's my primary question about all this: When using the HDR Optimizer in the player, should the default HDR picture settings in the Samsung remain where they are? In other words, should I be leaving Backlight on 50 and Contrast on 50 if the PLAYER is supposedly doing the heavy lifting of the tonemapping process?

Now, in getting to my HDR10+ questions -- we picked up our first UHD Blu-ray Disc with this format, The Shining, and ran it through the Panasonic last night. I can confirm that the player and display were indeed showing the HDR10+ layer of the disc (it also comes with a Dolby Vision layer and, of course, the base HDR10) as evidenced by the Panasonic putting up the "HDR10+" logo upon loading. Here's the thing though: While the transfer of the film looked awesome and miles ahead of the DVD version I've been watching for years, I didn't really notice that much of a difference between the HDR10+ presentation and the HDR10 presentation on other films we've watched on the NU; I realize that HDR10+ is supposed to be Samsung's "answer" to Dolby Vision in that it's a dynamic HDR format that optimizes scenes on the fly, so to speak (and that Samsung doesn't include DV in their displays), but I didn't really notice anything that had me thinking this is a "different experience" than HDR10...

My wife actually noticed a couple of moments where she claimed the screen seemed to "fluctuate" and auto-adjust between different shots of characters in one scene, as if the screen would get clearer and brighter and then go back again...but my eyes, unbelievably, didn't really catch this. I just chalked this up to the HDR10+ system "doing its thing" and correcting on a scene-by-scene basis.

Here's what I'd like to know: Is it normal that HDR10+ or Dolby Vision for that matter doesn't really look much different from regular HDR10? Is this something that is going to be title-dependent?

Also -- when viewing HDR10+ content, do my NU8000's settings in HDR-Movie mode remain the same? Does Backlight and Contrast still get maxed out, or are there different settings that must be made for this content?

If someone could lend some insight here it would be greatly appreciated.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Anyone?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I think you're having a serious bout of buyer's remorse. Told you that you should have gone for the Pioneer LX500. Just a shame we are all still waiting for the HDR10+ update. At least this time Pioneer may have a genuine excuse to push it back to 2021.

Perhaps your lack of responses to your question is that no one else is experiencing this particular problem.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
I think you're having a serious bout of buyer's remorse. Told you that you should have gone for the Pioneer LX500. Just a shame we are all still waiting for the HDR10+ update. At least this time Pioneer may have a genuine excuse to push it back to 2021.

Thanks -- that was most helpful. But while you Pioneer owners are waiting for HDR10+, I was able to enjoy The Shining in that format because the UB9000 was equipped with HDR10+ support out of the box. :)

Why would you be looking to make me feel guilty about buying the player I did? It's not a matter of buyer's remorse; I have questions about the way the Panasonic's HDR Optimizer feature works (which the Pioneer doesn't have, so why would you say no one else is experiencing this particular "problem"? It's not a "problem," but questions).

And I don't recall you suggesting that I wait for the Pioneer -- you gave me your input about the benefits and things you liked about it, which I completely appreciate, but I don't remember you telling me that I should definitely wait for it. I have been on a wait list through B&H Electronics for when the LX500 was supposed to come back into stock, and have received THREE messages since then stating they have no idea if or when the unit will be available again to purchase. I couldn't even buy it right now if I wanted to.

Perhaps your lack of responses to your question is that no one else is experiencing this particular problem.

I didn't post specifics of a particular problem -- I am asking operational questions with regard to how the player interacts with display settings (during usage of the HDR Optimizer and such); I didn't report on a problem with the unit, as you assert.

You may actually be able to assist me with these queries -- as you most likely have more experience with HDR than me -- because they relate to general behavior of a display when watching HDR content, but I would request that you re-read what I had originally posted.
 
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IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Paging Doug 56:

Could you perhaps help with the questions I had in my original post (the HDR Optimizer questions)?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
My response was that if little things about the Pioneer get under your skin then perhaps it's not the player for you. Simple as. Tried to keep it light hearted but I'm sorry if you've taken offence. Now in the Panny Owners' thread you're asking if you should return it and keep the CX.

I'll bow out of any conversations with you.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
My response was that if little things about the Pioneer get under your skin then perhaps it's not the player for you. Simple as. Tried to keep it light hearted but I'm sorry if you've taken offence. Now in the Panny Owners' thread you're asking if you should return it and keep the CX.

I'll bow out of any conversations with you.
Gibbsy,

With all due respect -- and I don't know why we can't have a civil conversation without someone saying "I'll bow out of any conversations with you" -- you DIDN'T give the response you claimed. You said maybe the reason why people weren't responding was because I'm the only one experiencing these issues...but my point was that I wasn't talking about PROBLEMS. I had questions about the way the player FUNCTIONED.

Why am I so wrong to ask these things?

*EDIT: If you're referring to your comment about "buyer's remorse," then THAT makes more sense with regard to what you're saying above -- but I just didn't understand why you had to make me feel a little worse by saying "Told you that you should have gotten the Pioneer..."; I mean, I explained why I couldn't get it (they're out of stock) and I don't recall you telling me, ever, that I SHOULD have gotten it, to be honest. I was merely explaining that.

My original questions in THIS thread were meant for other UB9000 owners who understand how the HDR Optimizer works, as I had specific questions with regard to how it relates to certain displays. I wasn't complaining about quality or any kind of "problem."

I didn't take offense -- I am explaining why your response seemed counter-productive to me. PLEASE try to understand this.

And we're talking about the PANASONIC, not the PIONEER.

Further, what is wrong with me considering keeping the CXUHD in the CXUHD dedicated thread? I am torn about it, so what is wrong with asking about it and getting some opinions?

You don't have to "bow out" -- I just don't understand WHY you say some things you do to me here, that's all; you claimed you "didn't have time" to read my post, but you did have time to make the statement you made about people not having the issues I'm having, yet that WASN'T what my post was about. And, you had time to come into the CXUHD thread and say the things you did about my reservations about keeping that unit, yet you said you didn't have time to read what I was originally referring to....

Can you just explain that, please? That's ALL I ask...
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I never said that you were wrong to ask the questions. I tried to answer with some banter which you have obviously misconstrued and for that I apologise. So I'm bowing out of the conversation as I've nothing to add to it.
 

goingoingong

Distinguished Member
Paging Doug 56:

Could you perhaps help with the questions I had in my original post (the HDR Optimizer questions)?
I've already previously answered them several times. Panasonic DP-UB9000 4K UHD Player: Owners Thread
As did folk over at blu-ray.com before you got banned.
Here's what I'd like to know: Is it normal that HDR10+ or Dolby Vision for that matter doesn't really look much different from regular HDR10? Is this something that is going to be title-dependent?

Also -- when viewing HDR10+ content, do my NU8000's settings in HDR-Movie mode remain the same? Does Backlight and Contrast still get maxed out, or are there different settings that must be made for this content?
1. Yes.
1a. Yes, title dependent.
2. Yes.
2a. No.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Okay Gibbs; my whole point was misunderstood or ignored, but okay.
 
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IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
I've already previously answered them several times. Panasonic DP-UB9000 4K UHD Player: Owners Thread
As did folk over at blu-ray.com before you got banned.

Is that really necessary? I've come to you in good faith with these queries -- which I honestly don't remember you answering, but I'll look at them now -- and that's what you throw at me?

You don't have an IDEA what that ban was about -- it goes back to personal vendettas with certain moderators and how they allow threads to get derailed by people I had issues with. That forum is a blatant joke, and everyone pretty much knows what their moderators do and how they play favorites.

My answers were not actually answered there directly, but it's unnecessary to go over that here with you or anyone else again. The experience there emotionally and ethically drained me. So please don't throw that around at me; I was asked privately to walk away when arguments get heated, and when I do and place members on ignore, I get thrown out for it. That's ALL that was about.

1. Yes.
1a. Yes, title dependent.
2. Yes.
2a. No.

I have to see what these relate to; I'll get back to you.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member

Doug,

Can you confirm a few things for me, now that I had a moment to correspond your responses with my original questions?

Is your #1 response answering my query about keeping the TV Type on "MID/HIGH Luminance LCD" for my display?

Did you provide an answer for this by any chance?

Here's my primary question about all this: When using the HDR Optimizer in the player, should the default HDR picture settings in the Samsung remain where they are? In other words, should I be leaving Backlight on 50 and Contrast on 50 if the PLAYER is supposedly doing the heavy lifting of the tonemapping process?

1a. Yes, title dependent.

I am assuming this is in reference to the question I had about HDR10+ titles; so, it IS normal for HDR10+ or Dolby Vision content to not look all that much different from HDR10? It just depends on how certain titles were mastered?

2. Yes.
2a. No.

Is this in response to these questions?

Also -- when viewing HDR10+ content, do my NU8000's settings in HDR-Movie mode remain the same? Does Backlight and Contrast still get maxed out, or are there different settings that must be made for this content?

If so, are you saying that the HDR settings in the display (the default settings) should stay the same when using the HDR Optimizer, but that backlight and contrast shouldn't get maxed out? They're maxed out by default in my Samsung...
 

Jacko007

Active Member
Doug,

Can you confirm a few things for me, now that I had a moment to correspond your responses with my original questions?

Is your #1 response answering my query about keeping the TV Type on "MID/HIGH Luminance LCD" for my display?

Did you provide an answer for this by any chance?

Here's my primary question about all this: When using the HDR Optimizer in the player, should the default HDR picture settings in the Samsung remain where they are? In other words, should I be leaving Backlight on 50 and Contrast on 50 if the PLAYER is supposedly doing the heavy lifting of the tonemapping process?

the tv is and should be treating the signal as normal HDR ie max backlight and contrast - leave it alone. HDR optimizer is reducing clipping mainly ie reducing the breadth of contrast data to better fit the approx brightness values of your generic screen. The TV still needs to be utilising it‘s maximum luminescent capability though. Relevant for most of your questions below.




I am assuming this is in reference to the question I had about HDR10+ titles; so, it IS normal for HDR10+ or Dolby Vision content to not look all that much different from HDR10? It just depends on how certain titles were mastered?

Correct. Not much, if any, difference between the formats. Occasionally, on a specific title there may be a reasonable difference.



Is this in response to these questions?

Also -- when viewing HDR10+ content, do my NU8000's settings in HDR-Movie mode remain the same? Does Backlight and Contrast still get maxed out, or are there different settings that must be made for this content?

See my first response Tv needs to be at max luminescence. Only when displaying DV will this be different, the TV will do that automatically.

If so, are you saying that the HDR settings in the display (the default settings) should stay the same when using the HDR Optimizer, but that backlight and contrast shouldn't get maxed out? They're maxed out by default in my Samsung...

Keep them maxed.

You can also increase or decrease the HDR brightness on the player as one of the HDR setting that you can access whilst playing a disk (unless it’s DV in which case its is locked). I play with this dependent on the brightness in my room at that time and also based on the general look of the film ie if it looks too dull I’ll turn it up, etc.

Answered in the quote above - click to expand it.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Thank you, Jack. I'm looking over your replies now.

Much appreciated.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
the tv is and should be treating the signal as normal HDR ie max backlight and contrast - leave it alone. HDR optimizer is reducing clipping mainly ie reducing the breadth of contrast data to better fit the approx brightness values of your generic screen. The TV still needs to be utilising it‘s maximum luminescent capability though. Relevant for most of your questions below.

Got it; thank you.

Correct. Not much, if any, difference between the formats. Occasionally, on a specific title there may be a reasonable difference.

Thank you.

And this applies to HDR10+, as well? I ask because my Samsung doesn't support Dolby Vision, only HDR10 (of course) and HDR10+ -- and I have only viewed one HDR10+ title thus far, The Shining on 4K Blu-ray.

Is there anything specific I should be looking for with regard to dynamic HDR playback in general, though, that would make it look different from static HDR10? If there aren't that many differences between the formats, why do they master certain titles with DV or HDR10+?

This last query is just out of sheer personal curiosity... :)

See my first response Tv needs to be at max luminescence. Only when displaying DV will this be different, the TV will do that automatically.

Thank you for confirming this.

Okay, I'll leave everything as-is at the display; and I assume your comment about DV applies to HDR10+ as well (as aforementioned, my display doesn't support DV, only 10+)?

Keep them maxed.

Got it; thanks.

While I'm on the topic -- is it correct to leave the contrast maxed out with HDR, too, not just the backlight? I ask because there are some who swear that even with HDR, contrast shouldn't be maxed (I don't have it maxed for SDR, instead leaving it at Samsung's default "45" out of "50" setting in the Movie picture preset I use)...should it be with HDR?

You can also increase or decrease the HDR brightness on the player as one of the HDR setting that you can access whilst playing a disk (unless it’s DV in which case its is locked). I play with this dependent on the brightness in my room at that time and also based on the general look of the film ie if it looks too dull I’ll turn it up, etc.

Yes -- I'm aware of those HDR presets in the player when a disc is playing; thank you for the heads up, though. Because we watch films at night with no room lights on, I keep this at the default of "Standard," which is plenty bright.

Can I pick your brain a bit, though, with regard to those HDR Optimizer sliders that open up in that menu? Selections like Tone Curve and Dynamic Range; I am leaving them on "0" because I don't really know what I'm looking for when I adjust them, but is this okay?

I have some questions about the way HDR is causing severe light bloom/bleed with my edge-lit display -- a side effect of the dumb technology -- and if there are any settings in the UB9000 that can possibly reduce it or mitigate it, but I'll wait till you respond to the above first.

Thank you very much for your assistance, once again.
 

goingoingong

Distinguished Member
Is that really necessary? I've come to you in good faith with these queries -- which I honestly don't remember you answering, but I'll look at them now -- and that's what you throw at me?

You don't have an IDEA what that ban was about -- it goes back to personal vendettas with certain moderators and how they allow threads to get derailed by people I had issues with. That forum is a blatant joke, and everyone pretty much knows what their moderators do and how they play favorites.

My answers were not actually answered there directly, but it's unnecessary to go over that here with you or anyone else again. The experience there emotionally and ethically drained me. So please don't throw that around at me; I was asked privately to walk away when arguments get heated, and when I do and place members on ignore, I get thrown out for it. That's ALL that was about.

I have to see what these relate to; I'll get back to you.
I passed no comment on that ban and was merely using it as a point in time. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

Jacko007

Active Member
I’ve answered as best I can - don’t know re your other questions. . HDR10+ is so rare that there will be too few meaningful comparisons yet. But those I’ve seen say it’s less an upgrade than DV which is only a marginal upgrade on HDR 10. So my advise is stop looking for differences and keep your tv settings as is.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
I passed no comment on that ban and was merely using it as a point in time. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm merely pointing out the circumstances surrounding that ban being that you seemingly used it against me when I was asking questions here. That's all.

At any rate, I'd appreciate if you could reply to my queries regarding my responses to your answers of "Yes, no" etc.
 

goingoingong

Distinguished Member
Here's my primary question about all this: When using the HDR Optimizer in the player, should the default HDR picture settings in the Samsung remain where they are?
Yes
In other words, should I be leaving Backlight on 50 and Contrast on 50 if the PLAYER is supposedly doing the heavy lifting of the tonemapping process?
Yes, if that is the TV default although I would have expected them both to be 100
Also -- when viewing HDR10+ content, do my NU8000's settings in HDR-Movie mode remain the same?
Yes
Does Backlight and Contrast still get maxed out
Yes
are there different settings that must be made for this content?
No
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Yes

Yes, if that is the TV default although I would have expected them both to be 100

Yes

Yes

No

Thanks.

With regard to your default statement, Samsung's maximum setting for these controls on the 2018 and up models is "50," not "100," so that's why I mentioned "max." But rest assured, the sliders for contrast and backlight are maxed out.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
I’ve answered as best I can - don’t know re your other questions. . HDR10+ is so rare that there will be too few meaningful comparisons yet. But those I’ve seen say it’s less an upgrade than DV which is only a marginal upgrade on HDR 10. So my advise is stop looking for differences and keep your tv settings as is.
Appreciate it.

The HDR scene is new to me, which is why I was asking about the differences between HDR10 and DV/HDR10+....I wasn't "looking for differences," I just wanted to know if it was normal that I didn't see much difference between The Shining's HDR10+ presentation and the HDR10 presentations I watch on other discs in my (small) 4K collection.

Aren't formats like 10+ and DV supposed to "improve" the viewing experience from baseline HDR10? Being that they're "dynamic" formats, aren't they supposed to take the image to a different level?

I ask because all I keep reading about is how "ridiculously awesome" DV is compared to baseline HDR and how "you have to experience Dolby Vision" in order to truly experience HDR and all this...

There's no truth to this?
 
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Jacko007

Active Member
DV can make a bit of a difference.

It is mostly subjective.

It is also based on the specific disk, your player, your eyes and your screen. Based on those factors in my set up it might make 1-20% difference.

I would think of it in terms of the difference between SD & HD was pretty big right? Let's say 50%+ better in terms of the detail you would take in (not scientific, not the number of pixels, but my brains arbitrary measurement - you may say it was 25% better or 100% better), the jump from HD to 4k HDR is IMO a smaller jump than from SD to HD. Let's say a 30% increase in viewing pleasure above HD :). Well,within that 30% DV compared to HDR 10 might make 1-20% difference. So almost negligible in some environments but a bit of an impact in others.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Thanks for the explanation, mate.
 

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