Can anyone explain to me how I go adding a dedicated electrical spur?

[Arcam_boy]

Hello,

I've looked several times before at adding a "mains filter" to my system and been looking at a few of the isotek solutions.

However from reading around people are suggesting that adding a dedicated mains spur would yield much greater results for a smaller outlay.

I don't really know much about electrics so would obviously get an electrician in to carry out all the work.

How would I explain what I want...

I've already got a double and single socket on the rear wall where my rack is.

I'm guessing I want some kind of separate electrical ring main from the house? Would this just come from the internal fuse box or would I need a totally new supply in to the house, with a separate bill??

I only want a double socket adding in to the lounge so I can plug a 6 way mains block in and give me kit its own "cleaner" power supply.

Also would they have to chisel the wall out or could they install it behind the skirting board somehow?

Any help would be greatly appreciated from people who have had it done, electricians or anyone with advice/suggestions.

Thanks
Mark

P.S Please don't turn this in to a debate over the benefits and the miles of cable it has to travel through to get to me. Its something I'd like to try for myself unless its going to cost lots and lots!

 

[Geps]

You must get an electrician in to do the work since it's clear you aren't competent.

Explain to him what you want and he'll tell you what he is recommending. Get some quotes, then come back to us if you're still unsure.


There is no point us telling you that you need X Y Z only for the electrician not to be happy to do that - it is his name the work will be tested under therefore he must design the circuit.

Get the quotes and let us know how you get on.

 

[dapouch]

The new ring will allow about seven or eight sockets (depending on use) so why not just get three double sockets added to the wall where you need them thus avoiding the use of a mains block.

I've seen others doing something similar on here.

You won't need a second supply to the house. You might have a spare way in your consumer unit (fuse box) so may not need additional hardware, but if not a sparky can fit a second unit (henly block?? I think) beside your consumer unit and take power from your mains.

Not sure about the chasing - it seems unavoidable as the cables will run from your consumer unit to your hifi wall. Not sure if you are allowed to use conduit for mains in homes, even if you could it's fugly.

 

[Arcam_boy]

I don't really know much about electrics so would obviously get an electrician in to carry out all the work.

You must get an electrician in to do the work since it's clear you aren't competent.

I fully admitted to that. I wasn't sure if they'd just add a few extra sockets to an existing loop which isn't what I want as I want a totally separate loop so its not receiving any interference from the main loop in the house

 

[Arcam_boy]

The new ring will allow about seven or eight sockets (depending on use) so why not just get three double sockets added to the wall where you need them thus avoiding the use of a mains block.

I've seen others doing something similar on here.

You won't need a second supply to the house. You might have a spare way in your consumer unit (fuse box) so may not need additional hardware, but if not a sparky can fit a second unit (henly block?? I think) beside your consumer unit and take power from your mains.

Not sure about the chasing - it seems unavoidable as the cables will run from your consumer unit to your hifi wall. Not sure if you are allowed to use conduit for mains in homes, even if you could it's fugly.

Thanks for the reply. From looking at the fuse box in the hallway we have a spare block so hopefully that could be used to feed the separate ring main.

I wasn't sure how many sockets they could create from one main but if they could put 6 in then that would negate me needing a mains block.

I guess I'll have to get a few quotes now and see how they'd go about getting the cable to my lounge. If its going to require the walls to be all channelled out then I may have to put it on hold for a while as we've decorated the lounge twice in the last year due to home cinema plan changes

 

[Geps]

I fully admitted to that. I wasn't sure if they'd just add a few extra sockets to an existing loop which isn't what I want as I want a totally separate loop so its not receiving any interference from the main loop in the house

It was this bit that concerned me:

Its something I'd like to try for myself unless its going to cost lots and lots!

There are lots of options for running the cable - you could even run it outside if you wanted - that way you get around the redecoration concern. As I said before if you sit down with the electrician they can go over the different routes and try to find one you like.

 

[Arcam_boy]

Thanks Geps.

I meant I wanted to try the separate ring main route not actually doing the job myself lol, apologies if it wasn't clear.

I've listed the job on mybuilder so once I get a few quotes I'll speak to one or two of them and see what approach they have. External for me would be a much option so it can go out the hall and back in near the wall where I want the sockets. A bit of small black/brown trunking running along the bottom of the house shouldn't look too bad!

 

[Geps]

I wouldn't run trunking outside - abit of armoured black cable with fixings would be more discrete I'd imagine. You could even point it into the mortar so you can't see it at all.

 

[Bangalore]

Easiest and cheapest way is to have a fused spur off the ring with an inline filter (not expensive-search filter on farnell or rs components websites) but has it's limitations.

The better job would be to have a dedicated ring using a filter. This would let you have as many sockets as you need. Strictly speaking you can have as many sockets on a ring as you want within 100m.

As for the chasing, without seeing it i wouldn't like to give you a definite answer but 9 times out of 10 you can do it with little or no damage to the walls.

 

[BlueWizard]

I think you've got a handle on it now.

First look at your fuse box, and see if there are any unused slots (unused recepticals for circuit breaker), if you have blank slots, it is simply a matter of adding a new Circuit Breaker or two and running new dedicated wire from those Circuit Breakers to the location where you need your outlets. And that is somewhat important. The wire should go directly to the Electrical Outlets that your HiFi/AV equipment will plug into. Keep the number of splice to an absolute minimum, zero if possible.

Now from that point, if you want to run other circuits for room lights, that might be fine, but the secondary circuits should branch off the AV outlets, not the other way around. Though one assumes the room already has lights and other secondary outlets.

How hard it will be to run the wires depends on the location within the house and relative to the Circuit Box, and the construction of the house. If you have a basement/cellar, or an attic, that might make a convenient path to run the new wires.

There are a lot of things to consider.

One might be the quality of the outlets you use. I was in the hardware store today and compare a pretty good heavy duty quality outlet that was about 3 times the cost of the standard bargain outlet, and it gripped the plug substantially better. The plug was harder to get in, and harder to get out. Which may seem like a bad thing, but for best electrical contact and the lowest possible loss, you want those outlets to grip the plug like a vise.

I've seen electrical outlets that cost US$100 each (in catalogs, not in person). I think that might be overkill though. Also you can buy electrical outlets that already have a degree of surge protection and filtering built in. Though I don't think they compare to a large high power line conditioner.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard

 

[Bangalore]

Thinking about it on the way to site this morning I thought of something else you could do. You could get your spark to extend the local ring and just install a filtered socket.

I would only ever install an MK one. As a professional it is the only brand I use for domestic/commercial installations. Here is a link to what I mean. I have never used this shop so don't know much about it but it was the first one I found online. Try your local Edmundson's or Newey and Eyre's as you could probably get some discount just by asking.

MK Electric K1816WHI Logic Plus White Moulded 2 Gang DP Spike Filtered Switchsocket 13A, K1816WHI

Hope this is of some help.

 

[Geps]

There are different types of filtering here.....there is a protective one - to prevent against surges and spikes like Sam posted. Or there is the quality one where you're trying to remove the harmonics to provide higher quality audio.

If it's the latter you're after then the one Sam posted won't be of any use to you and you'll need to run a dedicated circuit.

 

[Bangalore]

Your right. I took the liberty of assuming that it was for protection,. My apologies if that is not what your looking for. I've done quite a few clean supplies and with the execption of one all have been to protect the expensive equipment attached.

I agree that if it's supply quality a dedicated clean supply would be the better option.

 

[noiseboy72]

I noticed a comment about armoured cable. DON'T USE IT for HiFi!

Reason: The armoured external sheaf generates massive eddy currents putting nasty hums on otherwise stable bits of kit.

The shortest run of the best quality 2.5mm cable you can find will yield the best results.

 

[Bangalore]

Your reason is wrong. If you use a 3 core and only connect 1 end of the armour to earth it reduces interference as it acts as a screened cable.

 

[noiseboy72]

Your reason is wrong. If you use a 3 core and only connect 1 end of the armour to earth it reduces interference as it acts as a screened cable.

Nope, its a steel cable with an inductive load running through it. It becomes an electromagnet irrespective of earthing one end or both. (And lots of armoured cable is only 2 core as well) Any electrical noise effectively becomes amplified.

15 years of sound engineering in a variety of locations has taught me the hard way that armoured cable is a bad thing for audio. Give me HO8 rubber mining cable every time!

 

[Bangalore]

Without getting all theoritical. That's nonsense. By your theory it would be impossible to have hifi in hour house without it sounding rubbish unless you running on a filtered supply or connected direct to a generator. At some point every mains cables runs throug an swa.

There are no eddy currents regardless whether you have a capacitive or inductive loads. You have a live and neutral in the same metallic containment thus they canceled out by them selves.

As the for the swa screen. By using a 3 core and giving a copper earth you can use the armour to act as screen. In the same way all sensitive cables are screened. Your intercepting the noise before it reaches the current carrying conductors and only giving it one path, straight to earth. It will always be 0v plain and simple.

My apologise for sounding rude but that's how it is. (op-my apologise, it's got a little off topic)

 

[silver12]

To add something important, there is no limit to the number of sockets possible on a ring or radial circuit; the only limit is based on floor area alone.