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Can anyone else see the flicker on the panny 6

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by WIRY, Jul 26, 2003.

  1. WIRY

    WIRY
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    Hey u ggguuuyyyss

    I would like to know if anyone else sees this flicker on the panny 6
    as mentioned a few threads below

    I have not brought my plasma yet, but will be real real soon, still
    doing all the ground work,reading reviews and tech specs and trying to find a 50 mile radus showroom dealer , im sure you have all been there, or are in the process right now like me

    running contenders, that will eat up 3G of my not so hard earnt cash i.e credit card

    are the 42PD3000, PANNY6, PIO43 NON HD

    I saw the panny 5 37 inch today and did see the flicker, alot of you are on about, but its more than bearable

    The 32PD3000 however blew me away with its ultra fine detail,
    dsoe anyone know if I can take a good representation from the 32 as to what its big brother is like the 42PD3000.
    The noise wont worry me on the 3000, my PC is on most of the time and will sit in honor at the plasmas side

    I should be seeing the pio and panny 6 tomorrow,if comet has eather on display, and will let me play a dark sceen from stargate
    I`ll let u know

    cool threads
    wiry:smoke:
     
  2. bossc@

    bossc@
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    Good post - considering that the post at the top of the list at the time you posted was about 6 series Panasonic flickering.

    Re the 42PD3000 - dont bother if you have NTL cable box. Sky movies were good but terrestrial was chronic.:(
     
  3. WIRY

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    Funny that the post was like i say a few rows down, and now its seems to have over taken me, well we live an learn:)


    still its a valid point and should be mentioned more than once


    cheers all far and wide
    not the planets round and so shall I be type wide:smoke:


    wiry:)
     
  4. steve36

    steve36
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    I do not believe that comet will have the panasonic-6 on display as the consumer version is not available yet.
    Liam in Kent is one of the few places with the non-consumer (Grey version).

    I saw the screen and thought the picture was actually very good, I also could not see flicker during the hour I was there. I did used to easily see flicker with the series-5.

    I then went and saw the hitachi elsewhere and thought the picture was not as sharp as the panasonic and the edges if anything looked fuzzy with the digital TV picture. Also remember that the 32" will look sharper than 42" with the same resolution.

    If you watch more DVD than Digital-tv you may find the hitachi very good as many people do.
    I watch mainly TV and thought the panasonic picture was very good, much more colourful than the pioneer.

    I am now wondering about purchasing the panasonic-6 with the backup plan that if I ever do find the flicker annoying I could add an Iscan Ultra.
    Anyone else seen flicker ???? Does the series-5 'HD' version have any flicker ???

    Steve.
     
  5. WIRY

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    Your right there Steve
    comet do have the Pio and the panny 6 instock but not on show in any of the main stores in my area, how dumb is that, some of the best screens onsale today, and they are`nt showing them off

    Thanks for your input on the panny 6, I do watch sky most of the time aswell, and will give the panny 6 a demo, if I can find one near.


    Alot of people on this forum seem to be sending there plasmas back if they dont get on with them, so thats always an option just try it out at your house for a week, aslong as you put it on the credit card, you have rights in the first couple of weeks to send a screen back, if the dealer wont have it back then the credit card company will fry there ass

    so many conflicting opinons, least the panny 6 has DVI tho


    Laters
    wiry
     
  6. steve36

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    WIRY
    As far as sending them back if you don't like them, I would check first, especially with something as expensive as a plasma.
    One very reputable supplier has conditions of sale that if you return after using it, even for a short period, you pay a 30% restocking fee. (this is because everyone wants a new one, or a discount on an opened one).

    I would be interested to find if your rights actually extend to returning the goods after use because you find them unacceptable, but with no actual fault.

    One other supplier that used to be mentioned on this forum has actually been complemented in the past for taking back plasmas that are not working to customers satisfaction and exchanging (usually for the Pioneer !).

    I thought that under the sale of goods act you had the right to return within 7 days, according to some posts on the amplifier forum this is appears not to be correct and someone has stated that trading standards would agree with this.
    If you find someone that allows you to return if you don't like after trying, please PM me with info, and I will then feel more comfortable with my purchase.

    Good luck,

    Steve.
     
  7. Matravers

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    regarding the sale of goods act. You can as a consumer actually return any product (subject to hygiene issues like underwear) within 14 day faulty or not. As a consumer this is your mandatory statuory right but even alot of businesses do not know what the full consumer rights are as they are very deep and complex.

    It is also, as a matter for point not legal for a retailer to have a sign up stating that they will not offer a full refund on any returned product, as this is not worth the paper it is written on, and completely contradicts all of your statuatory rights as a consumer.


    The main reason for you being able to return goods, is that although they may not be faulty, there is no retailer out there for any product that can recreate your own personal usage and circumstance therefore you are never actually able to buy a product knowing EXACTLY how it is going to work for you either immediately or over a length of time.

    Interestingly, this is why Companies like Argos have the returns policy they do.........people are not aware of thier rights completeley and therefore think they are being offered an incredible service when all Argos have ever done is actually just market themselves as trading in a completely legal and standard way (Clever!!!).

    One final point, there is a huge grey area within your consumer rights over internet purchases. As is the case with the internet generally, as there is no actual governing body set up to deal with it, when you have poblems or issues who you gonna run too...........(Trading Standards will offer very little help as there hands are little tied)....well worth making sure that when purchasing of the internet you can also talk to the Company otherwise you get stuck.
     
  8. steve36

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    Thanks for the clarification, but try returning something to a COMET store after use.
    I've tried and failed to get a refund, even when the video-recorders noise reduction system actually introduced noise on the screen.

    Regarding internet purchases I believe that the latest sale of goods act regulations was set up for this very purchase to protect you in the case where you are not able to examine the product fully before purchase.
    It is interesting the no of companies including where I purchased my DVD-Recorded from have a clearly stated we will refund the amount -20% or 30% in the case of non-faulty returns.
    I look forward to the first test case, whilst trying not to let it influence my purchase.

    Thanks for the info.

    Steve.
     
  9. WIRY

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    I will just say, that if you buy on a credit card, they do a lot of the legal stuff for you, its one of the small perks (theirs only a couple)
    of owning a credit card, that and damage insurance for a month after purschase on some CC`S

    Personaly I think the credit crads are a bit worried that you might not pay them bcoz of the dispute,

    also it would help if you could get a advertised statement of the webpage that says something like "silent running" then if the plasmas got a hum you can send it back get it



    anyway steve you seem tobe in the exact same postion as me
    trying to decide which plasma you want

    any info on the one you like or have seen would be great

    me I have only seen 32pd3000 and that was very cool, very good and fine detail coz of the smaller screen size and res

    not seen the panny 6 pwd yet
    or the pio mxe

    cheers all
    wiry:smoke:
     
  10. steve36

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    WIRY
    I agree with you the 32pd3000 is very, very good. Apart from the slight transformer buzz that affects many plasmas.
    The hitachi 42" non tuner also has a fan-noise issue (at the moment). The Panasonic does not have this problem.
    I nearly bought the 32", then thought for similar money I may as well try and find a 42" as good.

    You really should try and go to AV-SALES in Tunbridge wells (mon-fri), for a viewing of the panny 6 pwd alongside the pioneer.
    I thought the panasonic-6 was one of the best I have seen, with very strong colours, including black/white. And very little of the flaw that is sometimes seen when solid areas of colour appear.
    The pioneer looked slightly better focused, but seemed to have some occasional pixellation.
    The pioneer MXE is futureproofed as it is higher res so loosing less of any HD pictures that we may eventually see in europe, and it should in the future have scaler/DVI cards available.
    I thought the panasonic won with SKY pictures possibly due to lower resolution screen (!), but then again another forum viewer said the opposite !
    I actually thought the series-5 panasonic looked very good, and at the moment it is a superb price. View one, if you don't see the flicker buy one once you have worked out how to connect everything to it.

    Remember though that each person has their own preference/ dislikes / tolerances.
    The only thing stopping my decision at the moment is the flicker issue. If I thought that a later upgrade would fix it such as a DVI card I would buy the panasonic Monday.

    Steve
     
  11. WIRY

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    IT is a personal thing I have seen that from other people on here

    I just feel like buying the bloody thing monday like you said, I cant be arsed driving to far for a show


    I think I will u know this monday, I`ll take the plunde and let you know how it goes when i want to send it back lol

    cheers allthe same

    wiry
     
  12. steve36

    steve36
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    Good luck with the return, if you need to !
    As I say you may find the high street even more willing to fight you than the internet retailers.
    I have noticed unbeatable and some others advertising 'open box returns' discounted so you may be ok.

    Good luck, but was there not a saying similar to- buy in haste, regret at leisure.
    Well at least that's what always happens to me !!!!

    If you really want to rush have a look at the fujitsu screens at your nearest Sevenoaks dealer. The service is always perfect and I have never seen one flicker. And the colours are very good.

    Steve.
     
  13. Easy2BCheesy

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    Hmmmmmmmmm not sure I'd spend £3,000 on something without actually seeing it working first!

    What I have learned is that specifications apart, the most important thing is to compare the screens with your own eyes. On paper, the Pio MXE is obviously superior to the Panny in all regards except on the blacks, and yet many swear that the Panny looks tons better. Similarly many prefer the Pio or the Hitachi screens.

    It really is subjective and down to the individual. That being the case, you'd be mad not to check them out first hand before laying down the sponds.
     
  14. WIRY

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    2 much doe to through away, but i got an ace up my sleave, I let u know

    cheers
    wiry:smoke:
     
  15. Mora

    Mora
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    Recieved my panny 6 from Liam on Friday..

    I'm more impressed with the picture in my own home rather than in the showroom. no flicker whatsoever.

    Sky picture is awesome on the channels i've tried so far, (Sky 1, Cartoon Network)

    Sadly, i will have to swap it for another, i have 2 dead pixels, 1 blue, 1 green. If they were at the end of the screen i could probably live with it, but one of them is pretty central, and i KEEP noticing it now i know its there..

    :mad:

    :)

    The dead blue pixel in the centre is far more noticeable than the dead green one.

    No way i'm paying £3k for a faulty product though. I will speak to Liam on monday about how many panny's come with dead pixels, it might be worth me collecting it from Tunbridge, and doing a pixel check beforehand ?

    Steve
     
  16. GAmbrose

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    Plasmas have dead pixels? I thought that was just LCD's

    Don't think I could put up with any dead pixels either to be honest.

    Gary A
     
  17. rscott4563

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    Well accroding to the Trading Standards website on the question of your rights as a consumer when purchasing over a distance, for example mail order or internet. You have a 7 day cooling off period where you can return your purchase for a full refund regardless of the reason!

     
  18. lynx

    lynx
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    Can you show me the relevant section of the act which deals with returning goods which are free from fault or defect ?

    http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/saleandsupply.htm#sga
    http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1994/Ukpga_19940035_en_1.htm

    Thanks.
     
  19. rscott4563

    rscott4563
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  20. lynx

    lynx
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    DanielDolman was specificaly referring to the supply and sale of goods and services act and returning goods which are not faulty - returning goods under distance selling regulations is not at all the same thing.There are many people who would welcome the oppertunity to return goods which don't live up to expectations and Daniel seems to have found a way to enable this.
     
  21. rscott4563

    rscott4563
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    I would have thought that as a lot of people in these forums are buying their plasmas online, that this would be of use as it doesnt state any where that you cant have used the product, mearly that you must have taken care and not damaged it, so doesnt this therefore cover the returning of a product that doesnt live up to expectations??
     
  22. WIRY

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    Some sites, alot of sites , have there terms and conditions to reed through before going through the online ordering bit, and what I`ve read of them, it states you can only send goods back that are faulty etc, and will incure a 25 quid fine if you send back nonfaulys goods (wow thats alot) my point is

    if the site clearly states its term&cons before your purchase, dose that invalidate what rscott4563 has posted?

    I think you up and coming buyers should`nt worry if you find any dead pixels or loud hums etc, coz thats clearly faulty, or misrepersented by the so called silent running advertisement they all claim

    but a flickering picture their im not sure

    you could always sabotage you set thens its clearly faulty, how I dont know, maybe some extra current lol

    cheers to all who reply to any thread

    cool threads
    wiry:smoke:
     
  23. WIRY

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    People were telling me to go for a viewing before I buy etc
    someone said I should go to sevenoaks and check out some screens, theirs me thinking ( Im not driving down to sevenoaks)
    duh theirs a sevenoaks store just 20 miles away, and a richer sounds, so Im off up there tomorrow with a dvd, hopefully can atleast check out one or two of the top contenders

    I`ll let you know how I get on


    cheerrs
    wiry:smoke:
     
  24. Matravers

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    RScott,
    excellently point for the internet purchaser, i think you are dead right that it is completely valid to the majority of purchasers who would read these forums. But, also because alot of it is the same as your rights when purchasing from a shop...........most if this almost deserves its own thread!!!!


    Lynx,
    I think the main problem is when we all define a faulty and non-faulty product.
    Point being that if you are spending this sort of money on a plasma it would be most unusual to be buying it on a whim, therefore incredibly unlikely that you would buy it and then decide that in fact you no longer want one (too much research etc has gone in).
    Basically when i say non-faulty i mean that it is working fine......but, not as expected. A fault does not have to be a burning smell, but merely a small function not working as told by salesman or literature........classic example being 'silent fanless operation'. Perfect reason for full refund!!!!!!!

    The likes of Comet and Currys are not to be afraid of, they will always intimidate there customers and try all they can not to refund, the biggest part of getting your money back from them is how you deal with them and express what you were expecting and what you got.

    If all else fails, walk into another comet or currys (usually 3ft away) and complain of intermittant power fault or intermittant screen blank. They cannot test that as the word intermittant is there worst nightmare.

    I can assure you that within 14 days you will have no problem if u deal with them properly, the law states that the time is to be of 'reasonable length of time' which is widely and wholly accepted to be 14 working days.

    As a main though i would never use the overpriced, halfbred sales technique and sheer ignorance of the large retail chains for purchasing anything other than rubber bands.......although i am regularly guilty of abusing them by purchasing a product to check if i like it at home and returning within a week or so and then purchase from a retailler who is going to offer a proper service and deserves our cash............damn those pesky intermittant faults on all comet goods....lol....lol
     
  25. chrise

    chrise
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    Sorry people but neither the Sale of Goods Act nor the Supply of Goods and Services Act allow for the return of goods which do not have faults. Daniel is incorrect in saying you can - this is one of the many legal myths on the internet probable due to the different laws in the US.

    The Distance Selling Regulations do allow for the return of goods within a seven day time limit - often at the buyers expense. Traders such as Argos give you more than your statutory rights as a marketing plus (actually it is their suppliers that take the hit but hey thats buying power for you)

    To reject goods under the statutes any fault must be substantial. Seeing before you buy is a good idea - but in the case of plasmas you will almost certainly be unable to examine the actual item you will buy.

    Moral buy from a reputable trader do not rely on arguing it in court as the average time for a consumer legal issue to be resolved is 4 to 6 months if you win.
     
  26. Matravers

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    Chrise
    I wonder if you could look at my description of a fault.


    I quote: - (sale of goods act 1979 & and 1994)

    This Act implies certain terms into contracts for the sale of goods. For example:

    Goods must be as described, of satisfactory quality, and fit for any purpose which the consumer makes known to the seller.


    Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.


    Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.


    It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible under the Act.
    If goods are not of satisfactory quality the buyer is entitled, if he acts within a reasonable time, to reject the goods and get his money back.




    My point was that a good does not have to be faulty in the full sense of the word but faulty can be attached to not working as expected, i can assure you this is definately the case
     
  27. steve36

    steve36
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    WIRY
    Before you go check what stock the stores carry. Each store richer/sevenoaks carry different stock.
    Also I would try to ensure that the branch either has SKY or Freeview connection to the plasma.
    Even the cheapest plasma look ok with DVDs, most look very good.
    Also try to take a dark film such as lord of the rings, Daredevil etc to get a good idea of how it looks.
    Most plasma have been demonstrated using Monsters inc. This is good for checking detail.

    Everyone else (!),
    I wish the 'rights' issue had been raised as a separate thread !
    I would also advise checking out on the Marantz SR-7200 threads in the amplifier section. Places such as HCH are insisting on charging a 20% return fee even though a hissing noise can be heard in some circumstances.
    The manufacturer has stated that the item is working within tolerances.
    Someone in those threads stated that trading standards agreed with the retailers position.
    I firmly believe the aim of the act was to allow people to order over the internet, try (quickly), and if it was not suitable return.
    This is on the basis that the item can not be seen before purchase.
    Regarding flicker, I suspect that most retailers would be reasonable regarding exchange for another model.

    Good luck Wirey, but do not expect to see a series-6 panasonic outside the 2 locations stated in other threads (for 1 - 2 weeks), if you do please tell us all,

    Steve
     
  28. chrise

    chrise
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    Daniel

    Monday to Friday I run a large CAB and which deals with many such cases. The reasonable person you quote is in fact a district judge NOT the customer i.e, the fault must be real not imagined to have a successful case.

    Certainly traders can (and do) refuse to accept rejection of goods that are not quite what the customer wanted but met their description and free from faults. Examples are something that looked wrong in a room. If this is important to you make sure that you include this as a specific term of contract - pref in writing. Dead pixels are another possible point but where that becomes a defect would require a judge to decide.

    The brief guide to the two acts you quote are accurate as far as they go but the full subject of consumer law rights fills several large text books. I take issue with the interpretation you made your earlier post made which is at best misleading.
     
  29. Matravers

    Matravers
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    Chrise,
    The abundance of documentation on consumer rights, sale of goods act etc i cannot dispute, my time studying consumer and taxation law at uni provided me with much of this paperwork.

    I think perhaps i am not explaining my point, and as this thread is being overwhelmed with off topic discussion i will try not to go on.

    Basically if you are sold something as silent and it is not, a reasonable person (albeit you, the retailer or the district judge god forbid it goes that far) will not be able to accept anything other than 'Silent'.....therefore this does conform to being a fault as the sale and description of the product were and are incorrect. whether you discover this at home or in the showroom is irrelevant. Nobody is able to put you in an environment like you will have at home, therefore they are there to provide you with the knowledge of what should occur in such situation. I would take huge issue to the fact that you say it must have a serious fault as you cannot sell an apple as an orange and get away with it. As most large retailers will not allow you to open the box and set it up there in the showroom connecting your kit to it you are subject to their guidance.

    I run my own supply aswell as installation company (building mainly) and have always refunded when a product has not matched what its description says when product is taken home, it is and has been my belief that this is the correct thing to do, i have also had vast conversations and meetings with the local CAB and have structured my entire customer service policy around what they advise.

    Anyhow, apologies for going on......i unfortunately think that as with most government or legal documentation it is often so open ened and in the eye of the beholder that you will always have a hundred different interpretaions and reasons (i guess that is why we have the CAB to help on individual cases)
     
  30. WIRY

    WIRY
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    Thx 4 your advice again steve

    Your proberly right ofcourse about my eyeball test that I shall do tomorrow, I was going to ring first and take a dark dvd, but i did`nt think of asking about sky ;)

    I will be happy if I get to see the pio or the 400e or 3000, I know im hoping to much about the panny6, but would like to see the 5

    one thng thats confused me is that you spent a hole hour looking at the panny 6 and said you were pleased even with sky news on it, how come you have`nt made your mind up yet, is it because
    your worried when it arrives it will flicker, or do you have cable or somthing. aslo when you were at av-sales did you take much notice of the 400e

    thanks agin for the reply and the advice


    cheers all

    wiry:smoke:
     

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