Can an employer make you cancel your holiday?

RicksonGracie1972

Distinguished Member
Panic over, for now anyway. My colleague was back at work this morning.
 

Marv

Member
Mobile phones , WhatsApp is a bug bear at my job, I have blocked lots of people because of it ,I now refuse to give out my number.

Iam the same and it annoys me when I get a call from and unknown number and it turns out to be someone from work and ****** gave them my number.
 

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
Iam the same and it annoys me when I get a call from and unknown number and it turns out to be someone from work and ****** gave them my number.

Unknown number -> no answer.
Known number -> maybe answer.
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
Of course, a good handover helps.

Just had to phone our comms and network guy while he's on holiday as we've run out of data on a couple of remote sites and he's the only one with the password to ask EE to top them up!!

If he'd included the details in his handover, we wouldn't have had to bother him...
 

Downinja

Well-known Member
Of course, a good handover helps.

Just had to phone our comms and network guy while he's on holiday as we've run out of data on a couple of remote sites and he's the only one with the password to ask EE to top them up!!

If he'd included the details in his handover, we wouldn't have had to bother him...

That's not really a handover issue, the fact that you have a single person, with a single password that has access to something like that isn't ideal.
 

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
That's not really a handover issue, the fact that you have a single person, with a single password that has access to something like that isn't ideal.

Where's the alerting and automation?
 

MSW

Distinguished Member
Iam the same and it annoys me when I get a call from and unknown number and it turns out to be someone from work and ****** gave them my number.

Of course, a good handover helps.

Just had to phone our comms and network guy while he's on holiday as we've run out of data on a couple of remote sites and he's the only one with the password to ask EE to top them up!!

If he'd included the details in his handover, we wouldn't have had to bother him...

That's not really a handover issue, the fact that you have a single person, with a single password that has access to something like that isn't ideal.

The incompetence of managers at some organisations is just utterly bewildering.

I see the same where I work as well, the ability to plan and (think like a chess player) consider the next move has become a rare skill over the last 20 years.

Fancy being dependent on people when the are on holiday. The funny thing is, if for example, these managers were employing people to say repair their car, or build them a house, they would be up in arms if they found out the car was not going to be repaired because the people doing the job were on holiday.
 
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Downinja

Well-known Member
Where's the alerting and automation?
I only say because I used to managed a commercial vodafone contract with shared data across around 400 devices (actually wasn't really my job, but there you go!).

Over use alerts triggered a message to the Director of IT and all the purchasing team had their own access to make those level of changes.

Glad the original OP sorted their holidays, but I would definitely haven't a conversation about what happens in future (maybe put it in your appraisal).
 

nvingo

Distinguished Member
That's not really a handover issue, the fact that you have a single person, with a single password that has access to something like that isn't ideal.
You mean, that one person could be incapacitated or worse whilst partaking in holiday activities, or even just give a middle finger to the company - or even be subject to instant dismissal - with nobody else able to step in ?
 

NorvernRob

Distinguished Member
Wow. I didn’t even know this was possible. In the industries i‘ve worked/work in, if a manager asked someone to cancel their holiday to work instead they would be laughed out of the room and probably get a grievance lodged against them too.
 

oneman

Well-known Member
Wow. I didn’t even know this was possible. In the industries i‘ve worked/work in, if a manager asked someone to cancel their holiday to work instead they would be laughed out of the room and probably get a grievance lodged against them too.
Read your contract, almost certainly there will be notice periods for vacation. There will probably be a wishy washy clause about the company being able to block certain periods like month end, annual sales or other high volume events.
 

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
Wow. I didn’t even know this was possible. In the industries i‘ve worked/work in, if a manager asked someone to cancel their holiday to work instead they would be laughed out of the room and probably get a grievance lodged against them too.

Not sure how far you would get with a grievance given that it is HMRC policy.

The company would need to demonstrate some serious hardship I suppose as it would be expected to be used in extreme circumstances.

Personally I have never heard of a cancelled holiday, maybe one or two refused ones.

One company I was at had forced holiday - for the Christmas shutdown. Again, following HMRC rules.
 

oneman

Well-known Member
Not sure how far you would get with a grievance given that it is HMRC policy.

The company would need to demonstrate some serious hardship I suppose as it would be expected to be used in extreme circumstances.

Personally I have never heard of a cancelled holiday, maybe one or two refused ones.
I've come across it once or twice, I know in one case there was a major screwup from a supplier and they had to change the date for a major migration about a week before it was due to happen and shift it to the following weekend. It was always a flagged risk for the project.

The company did their sums and basically it was cheaper to pay off the SME to cancel their holiday then delay the migration again. The person managed to get the company to cover the cost of a new holiday for them any their family (and they managed to get most of their money back from original holiday), some insane daily rate which was 4x their normal rate and double holiday.

I know everyone says that you shouldn't have single point of reliance and most people are replaceable but it takes time and effort to replace someone who has a specific skillset or business knowledge.
 

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
I've come across it once or twice, I know in one case there was a major screwup from a supplier and they had to change the date for a major migration about a week before it was due to happen and shift it to the following weekend. It was always a flagged risk for the project.

The company did their sums and basically it was cheaper to pay off the SME to cancel their holiday then delay the migration again. The person managed to get the company to cover the cost of a new holiday for them any their family (and they managed to get most of their money back from original holiday), some insane daily rate which was 4x their normal rate and double holiday.

That isn't exactly a cancelled holiday - that is a bought holiday.
 

NorvernRob

Distinguished Member
Not sure how far you would get with a grievance given that it is HMRC policy.

The company would need to demonstrate some serious hardship I suppose as it would be expected to be used in extreme circumstances.

Personally I have never heard of a cancelled holiday, maybe one or two refused ones.

One company I was at had forced holiday - for the Christmas shutdown. Again, following HMRC rules.

It simply wouldn’t be permitted to happen in the unionised industries I’ve worked/work in, there are agreements for everything. The company could ask for volunteers, but they wouldn’t even attempt to cancel someone’s holiday.
 

oneman

Well-known Member
It simply wouldn’t be permitted to happen in the unionised industries I’ve worked/work in, there are agreements for everything. The company could ask for volunteers, but they wouldn’t even attempt to cancel someone’s holiday.
With union places there is usually a clique that messes around with people's holiday.
 

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
It simply wouldn’t be permitted to happen in the unionised industries I’ve worked/work in, there are agreements for everything. The company could ask for volunteers, but they wouldn’t even attempt to cancel someone’s holiday.

Likewise. We bid for our leave several months in advance - it works on a points system ,where different weeks have differing values assigned. So Christmas, say, would be worth just 1 point - an unpopular week mid-November, 5.

The points are accumulated on a 4 year basis, so what you bid for 5 years ago doesn't count, and leave is split into summer and winter, with two weeks available in each.

Whoever has the highest points has first dibs, and if your points equal someone else's, then seniority (time-served) trumps. It's very fair, and transparent.

Once awarded/allocated leave, one can swap it with others, but under no circumstances are you allowed to work in it, or be asked to work in it.

As well as being a union thing, it's also a legal thing in our industry to have at least 4 weeks leave per year. We are lucky in that we get a couple of extra weeks 'free of duty', to make up for not getting bank holidays etc. off. We are allowed to work in those - but purely on a voluntary basis, again the company can't ask us to work, but people occasionally pick up some overtime when available.
 
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imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
And would expect in OP case there would have been some compensation for having your holiday cancelled.

Yep - but the law of the land doesn't stipulate there needs to be any compensation. I agree it would be a PR nightmare to simply cancel one.
 

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
Likewise. We bid for our leave several months in advance - it works on a points system ,where different weeks have differing values assigned. So Christmas, say, would be worth just 1 point - an unpopular week mid-November, 5.

The points are accumulated on an 4 year basis, so what you bid for 5 years ago doesn't count, and leave is split into summer and winter, with two weeks available in each.

Whoever has the highest points has first dibs, and if your points equal someone else's, then seniority (time-served) trumps. It's very fair, and transparent.

Once awarded/allocated leave, one can swap it with others, but under no circumstances are you allowed to work in it, or be asked to work in it.

As well as being a union thing, it's also a legal thing in our industry to have at least 4 weeks leave per year. We are lucky in that we get a couple of extra weeks 'free of duty', to make up for not getting bank holidays etc. off. We are allowed to work in those - but purely on a voluntary basis, again the company can't ask us to work, but people occasionally pick up some overtime when available.

What a malarkey to have a week off. One of the benefits of flying a desk is I just press a button in the holiday system and that's it. We all have global teams - even the big holidays like Easter, Christmas, Summer aren't global so unless there is something very odd there is cover.
 
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The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
What a malarkey to have a week off. One of the benefits of flying a desk is I just press a button in the holiday system and that's it. We all have global teams so even the big holidays like Easter, Christmas, Summer aren't global so unless there is something very odd there is cover.

Yes, it requires a spot of forward planning - and not knowing how it works can bite you in the arse, as attested by the whining that often accompanies the results covering Christmas!

Personally, I no longer care, as I went part time a few years ago, so do a fixed pattern 3 weeks on, 1 off. And my off week covers Christmas for the next 6 years anyway! I just bid for weeks off every alternate month - so every other month I get two weeks at home. I could care less how poor my roster is with at least a week off to look forward to, or half the time, two weeks.

The last year has been a bit different though - I actually want to work, but so far have done just 2 trips since January. I truly fear for the company's future unless the government pulls it finger out and stops messing around with this stupid 'traffic light' system! And with the end of the furlough scheme rapidly approaching, I see many more redundancies on the horizon, mine included.

...at least I won't have to worry about bidding for leave!
 

NorvernRob

Distinguished Member
Likewise. We bid for our leave several months in advance - it works on a points system ,where different weeks have differing values assigned. So Christmas, say, would be worth just 1 point - an unpopular week mid-November, 5.

The points are accumulated on a 4 year basis, so what you bid for 5 years ago doesn't count, and leave is split into summer and winter, with two weeks available in each.

Whoever has the highest points has first dibs, and if your points equal someone else's, then seniority (time-served) trumps. It's very fair, and transparent.

Once awarded/allocated leave, one can swap it with others, but under no circumstances are you allowed to work in it, or be asked to work in it.

As well as being a union thing, it's also a legal thing in our industry to have at least 4 weeks leave per year. We are lucky in that we get a couple of extra weeks 'free of duty', to make up for not getting bank holidays etc. off. We are allowed to work in those - but purely on a voluntary basis, again the company can't ask us to work, but people occasionally pick up some overtime when available.

We are assigned our holidays (it works on a rota basis year to year so is fair). But then there are rounds of mutual swaps, then finally vacant weeks that anyone can apply for. It’s not perfect but it works ok and I generally get what I want, plus like you we have 8 extra days in lieu of bank holidays which equates to another two weeks off.

We have a minimum 3 days off between each set of shifts, so depending on the weeks we book it can equate to around 2 weeks off for each week booked. After working a 6 day week for the first 8 years I was a postie, then for the next 14 years a 5 day week where the only time I got 2 days off together was a long weekend every 6 weeks, what I have now is amazing. It feels like I have my life back.



With union places there is usually a clique that messes around with people's holiday.

Not here or my last place, it’s all done fairly.
 

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