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Can an Apple fan please justify THIS to me??

johann1979

Banned
Right - I am fuming! I just watched the video of Steve Jobs' Nano announcement in San Francisco's Moscone West on Apple's website. What an arrogant old git he is!!! Right, in his unveiling of the Nano he compared it with various other mp3 players, including Sony's HD5!!!!!

He had the cheek to emphasize that it is 62% smaller than the HD5, but coveniently neglected to point out to the audience that the nano is only 2GB or 4GB. Let's do a very basic math here. The Nano is is 62% smaller than the HD5 but it has up to 90% LESS MEMORY than the 20GB model and 94% LESS MEMORY than the 30GB HD5!!!

You can't compare the two players! They are two totally different products - I tell you what - take the HD5 20GB and compare it to Apple's iPod 20GB and lets see which one is the smallest...

There are always hundreds of Apple fanboys who are ever so quick to defend the company's every move - so please, tell me then - how is this man allowed to make such absurd and invalid comparisons, heh?????
 

nokiauk

Novice Member
probably cause people are willing to pay for style and function and the "ipod" name rather than worry about what size in (Mb) it is.

i'd personally rather say that i had an ipod rather than a zen (creative) or a hd5 (sony).

a lot of people have this opinion but the reality is that Sony and other companies "missed the boat" when it came to music players and online music.
 

johann1979

Banned
nokiauk said:
probably cause people are willing to pay for style and function and the "ipod" name rather than worry about what size in (Mb) it is.

i'd personally rather say that i had an ipod rather than a zen (creative) or a sony.
Thanks for your post but you are missing the point completely! Steve Jobs compared the size of the Nano and the size of the HD5. The object of this comparison was to show to his audience that the Nano was so much smaller than it's 'competitors'... Of course the HD5 will be bigger - it has 90 - 94% MORE MEMORY!

My gripe with it all is that you have to compare like for like! He repeated twice that the HD5 is 62% bigger than the iPod Nano. This is a totally unfair and invalid comparison and if I ever hated Apple before I don't think I realised just how much...
 

nokiauk

Novice Member
fair enough, but it's also a question of cost.

the sony will use a hdd which adds to size/cost and the nano flash memory which no doubt will get a hike in size once apples secures a deal for large capacity cheap flash memory

the 4gb nano is available for £179.00 and the sony 30gb model is £199.00 maybe a fairer comparison would be the 20gb ipod at £195.00.

might not have been fair to stand up and compare at a conference but certainly the 20gb ipod is cheaper and has a colour screen which the sony doesn't have. sony's have historically cost more than competitors products anyway cause of perceived quality - except not in this case.

even the nano's predecessor the mini cost more per gb of storage.

still seems people will pay for looks alone.

who would ever really need more than 4gb of music at any one time anyway.

i personally only have the shuffle model and find 120 tracks perfectly adequate
 

johann1979

Banned
nokiauk said:
fair enough, but it's also a question of cost.
No! It has nothing to do with cost! It has to do with the cheek of Steve Jobs to use the HD5 to measure the the size of the Nano at the unveiling of the Nano. In his comparison he achieved one thing; he made the Nano look good and the HD5 look bad. He said that the Nano is 62% smaller than the HD5 but never mentioned that the HD5 has 10 times more memory - therefore it is LOGICAL that it is bigger.

He shouldn't be allowed to make such false comparisons to benefit his own company at the cost of another - ESPECIALLY WHEN THE COMPARISON is invalid!
 

drmoze

Standard Member
nokiauk said:
who would ever really need more than 4gb of music at any one time anyway.

i personally only have the shuffle model and find 120 tracks perfectly adequate
Me. I want/need far more than 4Gb. I wouldn't touch a shuffle because I like to listen to albums, not just a bunch of random songs. And I want to have a lot of albums with me so I don't have to constantly switch files back and forth from the pc. 120 tracks is about 10-12 albums. Nowhere near enough to carry around and have any type of variety.
 

sirlukas

Novice Member
nokiauk At first You mention Color display of an iPod, then You claim that Shuffle is enough for You, decide Bro ;)
 

nokiauk

Novice Member
sirlukas said:
nokiauk At first You mention Color display of an iPod, then You claim that Shuffle is enough for You, decide Bro ;)
all i meant by this was that if i was in the market/required that size of music player then I would be tempted by the colour screen of the ipod esp as it's cheaper
 

johann1979

Banned
drmoze said:
Me. I want/need far more than 4Gb. I wouldn't touch a shuffle because I like to listen to albums, not just a bunch of random songs. And I want to have a lot of albums with me so I don't have to constantly switch files back and forth from the pc. 120 tracks is about 10-12 albums. Nowhere near enough to carry around and have any type of variety.
By comparing the Nano with the HD5 it is like saying: This 250gm bag of coffee is only 25% the volume of this 1kg bag of tea. Well - I ****ing never!!! Unfortunately not everybody can see through his PR bullsh*t. I have no respect for the man.

To add insult to injury he compared the iPod sales to sales of the PSP in that quarter saying that there were 6million iPods sold compared to 2 million PSP's. Once again this is totally understandable - portable music players appeal to a much greater audience than gaming consoles!!! Once again a totally understandable and irrelevant statistic hijacked for Apple's benefit.

I hope their headoffices burn down to the ground tonight!! :D
 

sirlukas

Novice Member
That's only Marketing, You cannot do anything about it, every one is looking for the TRICKS to put into shame competitors.
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
:eek: :confused: :rolleyes: ;) :cool: :) :D

can you spell m-a-r-k-e-t-i-n-g?

Sony have toppled Nintendo this way with Playstation. Curiously, they don't use same marketing nous for their MP3 players. RE my other post, I have never seen a non iPod MP3 player advert on billboards, full page newspapers, TV or bus stops. You need to reach the masses ;)
 

DaveA

Standard Member
Maybe he should have also pointed out the Nano has a superior % of units with cracks developing than the HD5 :smashin:
 

johann1979

Banned
LFC_SL said:
:eek: :confused: :rolleyes: ;) :cool: :) :D

can you spell m-a-r-k-e-t-i-n-g?

Sony have toppled Nintendo this way with Playstation. Curiously, they don't use same marketing nous for their MP3 players. RE my other post, I have never seen a non iPod MP3 player advert on billboards, full page newspapers, TV or bus stops. You need to reach the masses ;)
I understand marketing and realise without it the iPod would probably not nearly have been as successful - but it is just when people make false comparisons it angers me so much. Anyway - the bad publicity they're getting now with their own cracks will hopefully reverse all these dishonestly obtained credits... :)
 

ijd

Novice Member
hey listen ...its all about telling people what they want to hear,
if a ford mondeo was painted ferrari red you can bet it....it is the same red as a ferrari, would come into play but that is where the similarity ends,and it does not matter how smart and non gullable we think we are, that small filicker becomes an inferno when the other things we like about the product come to life...and i bet if you bought that mondeo , when you tell your friends about the colour it would not be red but it would be FERRARI RED, if you deny this you are lying to yourself, if your smiling its because you know its true. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
E

ednasgoldfishuk

Guest
I had this conversation with a friend recently, and Sony have advertised the HD1 on bus stops, seen it with my own eyes! But everyone knows you pay for those four letters, and when it comes to Audio equipment anyone who knows anything would trust those four letters alot more than a glowing apple! I got my HD1(when it worked!haha) hooked up too MDR V700, and I can tell you sounds a **** load better at 64kbs than my friends ipod with crappy white headphones at 128kbps.
 

extremelydodgy

Active Member
ednasgoldfishuk said:
I had this conversation with a friend recently, and Sony have advertised the HD1 on bus stops, seen it with my own eyes! But everyone knows you pay for those four letters, and when it comes to Audio equipment anyone who knows anything would trust those four letters alot more than a glowing apple! I got my HD1(when it worked!haha) hooked up too MDR V700, and I can tell you sounds a **** load better at 64kbs than my friends ipod with crappy white headphones at 128kbps.

Since the V700 sounds like **** relatively speaking, I'm not surprised. It makes bad sound halfway palatable, and drags down good sound to mediocre levels. The sole difference between the HD1 and the iPod that would be discernible on a lacklustre performer like the V700 would be the levels of wooly mid-bass.
 

dingo8yobaby

Well-known Member
i have in the past owned the archos gmini 200 which is the smallest 20gb mp3 player on the market hd5 included (though its a teeny bit chunkier). I hated ipods and their whole image till i saw the nano. The nano is just sooooo gorgeous i did'nt care about taking a 18gb drop in storage just to own one and the click wheel just blew me away with its ease of use. I even swallowed my pride and took a lot of stick from friends for "turning to the white side". I guess what i'm saying is yes the hd5 has a lot more storage but the nano is a competitor to itand is by far the more desirable machine- you've just got to have it.


(and the album art looks so cool on the screen!)
 

johann1979

Banned
ijd said:
hey listen ...its all about telling people what they want to hear,
if a ford mondeo was painted ferrari red you can bet it....it is the same red as a ferrari, would come into play but that is where the similarity ends,and it does not matter how smart and non gullable we think we are, that small filicker becomes an inferno when the other things we like about the product come to life...and i bet if you bought that mondeo , when you tell your friends about the colour it would not be red but it would be FERRARI RED, if you deny this you are lying to yourself, if your smiling its because you know its true. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I see your analogy, but it was down right deceptive to compare the size of the HD5 and the Nano...
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
How about this; it doesn't matter what the truth is. What matters is what the public will believe and how far Apple can "spin" things
 

dodger747

Novice Member
johann1979 said:
In his comparison he achieved one thing; he made the Nano look good and the HD5 look bad.
Exactly...
 

ijd

Novice Member
johann1979 said:
I see your analogy, but it was down right deceptive to compare the size of the HD5 and the Nano...
granted ,but thats marketing for you.
 
S

shadowritten

Guest
My dear Johann, there is something missing from your calculations. Consider the following formula:

iPod+marketing+iTunes=Cool

Frankly, it wouldn't have mattered a jot if Steve Jobs had presented the assembled delegates with one of his own freshly laid turds in a plain white box and gone on to explain how it was 62% less smelly than anything Howard Stringer could turn out. The above equation would still have held true.

Apple are flavour of the decade right now. This is likely to continue unchallenged until such time as the masses are re-programmed to believe, by those intelligent thought leaders gifted in the art of spin, that had Steve Jobs had even half the initiative and cunning of Bill Gates, he'd have made Apple the success Microsoft is today. All this talk of the 'dark side' is utter rot peddled by those loyal to an underdog. Wait till Apple are no longer preceived as the underdog, then watch the ignorant turn on them instead.

It boils down to this: Apple, Microsoft, Sony, et al, are all greedy, grasping multi-nationals driven by the shared desire to dominate in business. It's the same instinct through the whole of global commerce. No one company is any more or less deserved of our support or contempt than another - save for a very small minority of truly ethical companies struggling to get heard above the throng of dogs eating dogs; and who, in truth, are worthy of praise and support by those of us more enlightened.

So, why do we buy these 'evil' companies' goods? Because we desire them every bit as much as they desire to dominate in business. One fuels the other. Kill the desire on either side, and this maddening greed will end.

And just to bring this back firmly on topic, Steve Jobs didn't actually lie in any way, shape or form. He merely stated the very real fact that the iPod Nano is (we can only trust the figure given) 62% smaller PHYSICALLY than the HD5. No spin there - quite the opposite. Are we now to lambast a man for simply telling the truth, regardless of the arguably 'underhand' commercial agenda informing his choice of words?
 
B

Beethovenian

Guest
johann1979 said:
By comparing the Nano with the HD5 it is like saying: This 250gm bag of coffee is only 25% the volume of this 1kg bag of tea. Well - I ****ing never!!! Unfortunately not everybody can see through his PR bullsh*t. I have no respect for the man.

To add insult to injury he compared the iPod sales to sales of the PSP in that quarter saying that there were 6million iPods sold compared to 2 million PSP's. Once again this is totally understandable - portable music players appeal to a much greater audience than gaming consoles!!! Once again a totally understandable and irrelevant statistic hijacked for Apple's benefit.

I hope their headoffices burn down to the ground tonight!! :D
I agree with you here. It's marketing spin and all, but Jobs does it way too often (he did the same for the iPod mini, comparing it to a Rio flash player), and people swallow it way too easily. We're losing our critical view, and that's especially true with Apple, for some reason I don't know. Sure, marketers will continue to say their misleading truths, but we should be able to tell them to quit the BS.
 

KiNeL

Novice Member
LFC_SL said:
...it doesn't matter what the truth is. What matters is what the public will believe and how far Apple can "spin" things
Substitute "The Government" for Apple and you succinctly describe politics !
 

HMHB

Distinguished Member
I can see what Johann is getting angry about, they are comparing 2 different products, it like saying "Our motorbikes are 75% smaller than your cars" or something lke that.
Can I just remind everyone though that we shouldn't be using * characters to get around the swear filter please :) Use the :censored: smilie and we all know what you mean ;)
 

IanPM

Novice Member
JohnG said:
I can see what Johann is getting angry about, they are comparing 2 different products, it like saying "Our motorbikes are 75% smaller than your cars" or something lke that.
Can I just remind everyone though that we shouldn't be using * characters to get around the swear filter please :) Use the :censored: smilie and we all know what you mean ;)
Jobs is a :censored:

I think we all know what I mean ;)
 
S

shadowritten

Guest
Where can we find the censored smilie, John? I don't see it.
 

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