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Can a sub be too good for an Amp?

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by sticker, Jul 18, 2003.

  1. sticker

    sticker
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    Hi,
    I bought 2 Paradigm servo 15's a while back and originally had them paired with an old Sherwood R925. On connecting them I was less than impressed with the performance and thought, as did the wife that the old Paradigm PS1000 we had was better.
    Servo 15 problem

    Anyway to cut a long story short I didn't get anywhere improving their performance :confused: , but recently bought an Arcam AV8/P7 and last night finished setting it up, watched The Haunting (signature edition), well to coin a phrase...................f*** my old boots, we both nearly died of induced heart failure, the bass is unbelieveable, made us both nearly sick :eek: :eek: :devil: :devil:

    So is it possible that the Servo 15's were too good for the Sherwood?

    Cheers happy now
    John
     
  2. Mylo

    Mylo
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    Two servo 15's, how big is the room?
     
  3. sticker

    sticker
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    at present is is only 5m * 5m, but in 2 months time it's all being moved to a dedicated HC 6m & 8m, hopefully the walls won't fall down before then :smoke:
     
  4. Mylo

    Mylo
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    You lucky bugger, I'd love that much room for the toys to go in.
    :( ;) :smoke:
     
  5. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Sounds like it wasn't set up properly beforehand
     
  6. Mylo

    Mylo
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    Regarding bass, is the av amp not basically a pass through for the bass signal from the dvd? Maybe it coloured the signal?:confused:
     
  7. sticker

    sticker
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    That will be me then :blush: .....no seriuosly unless I made a really stupid mistake I set it up the same as with the Sherwood (Aviva disk, SPL). What I may do if I get time or can be bothered is retry with the Sherwood
     
  8. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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    More to it than than.

    Processing, bass management etc.

    If the .1 LFE sound is a "pass-thru" from the DD/DTS bitsteam, you'll hear sounds like a spectrum/modem.
     
  9. SanPedro

    SanPedro
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    John

    Just bought a Servo 15 second hand from a forum member.

    Just got a couple of questions for you.

    I too have it connected to a Sherwwod receiver - the 6095 model. I've had no experience of other subs except in demo rooms of some RELs and Yamahas. None of them comes close to the Servo.

    The problem I have, is that when the volume on the Sherwood is turned round to about 2/3 - 3/4 way round, the volume on the sub cannot be set further than about 1/4 way. Higher than this and the driver seems to go into overdrive and starts to rattle (especially on stuff like the intro to 'Attack Of The Clones' or 'Breathe' from Dark Side of the Moon). Is this somjething you experienced at all?

    I just have the Servo plugged in via a sub cable and not through the additional widget you can buy for the sub.

    I'm just interested to know, why have a volume control you can only turn round 1/4 way? Hopefully I'm missing something in all of this. Maybe a new amp will be what I need.

    Cheers

    Chris
     
  10. Mylo

    Mylo
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    Hi Nathan, I hoped someone with a bit of patience was online (Ian no offence) as well as me. ;)
     
  11. sticker

    sticker
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    Chris,
    Sorry mate I don't know the answer, I reckon someone like SteveEX would know the answer, he is well versed with the Servo 15
    Regards
    John
     
  12. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Chris,

    You have the AV equivalent of a 15 year old Fiesta with a V8 engine. The Sherwood 6095 wasn't even well thought of when current let alone now.

    The volume controls of most decent subs never need to be turned up too much. I tend to use 2 out of 10

    You still need to get shot of that amp though :D
     
  13. Mylo

    Mylo
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    That's where I was heading. Two high power subs & one moody av amp. I like RS (THEY SELL SHERWOOD) before anyone starts.
    :)
     
  14. SanPedro

    SanPedro
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    Hey come on guys. I like my old Sherwwod:blush: What Hi -Fi thought it was good :blush: :blush: Its nearly 4 years old and besides, there wasn't much else you could get for £250 that had DD, DTS etc. etc. It's what got me hooked in the first place.

    If it's the amp that's the case then what would be suitable upgrade to get a meaninful improvement in performance. There seems to be a lot more amps out for the £250 the Sherwwod cost but should I aim for £300 - £500 instead. I know this is OT, but hey it's to do with getting the best out of my beastie.

    Just got to get the best out of it now.:devil:

    Cheers

    Chris
     
  15. sticker

    sticker
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    Chris,
    I would certainly upgrade the Sherwood, look at a Pioneer 2011 or Denon 3803 or even a Denon 3802, you can get the 3802 really cheap now.

    I agree with you re the Sherwood, it gets you into the HC lark and we all have to start somewhere, after all not many people past their test and buy a Rolls!!!!

    Cheers
    John
     
  16. Mylo

    Mylo
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    You must know the theory that av amps sound poo for music? I had a top of the line Sherwood amp on loan from Reading, it sounded worse than my av amp. That may apply to their av amps sound quality as well. I have a Pioneer which is wkd for films. Still not audiophile with music though. :)
     
  17. buns

    buns
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    Slightly different amp, a yamaha, but my sub sounds substandard using it. I am hoping it is the amp, as you guessed, hence one reason for an upgrade to a processor which has bass management.
     
  18. tk2001

    tk2001
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    sticker,

    I'd say that its very possible that the Servo 15's are too good for the Sherwood amp.

    When I had a CHT-15 and upgraded from a Denon 3802 to A11SR, there was a noticable performance increase coming from the sub, i.e. bass was more controlled, tighter, and was able to pick up subtle transient details better.

    I recently upgraded from a A11SR to a KAVC-A1SE (A1SR specs) and again I noticed that my sub sounds that bit more 'refined' and tighter.

    Plug a decent high-end sub into something like a Lexicon MC-12 and you will again notice the sub sounding better than before.
     
  19. buns

    buns
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    I think the key here is that the better your sub, the more likely it is to have higher output and at lower frequencies. Thus the more likelu it is to need complex bass management like that found in higher end processors.

    But there is an important distinction i feel, the sub wont be too good for the amp, rather the amps bass management is not good enough for the sub..

    Ad
     
  20. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Many low end receivers add lots of distortion when bass management is engaged. Were any of the speakers set to small?
     
  21. sticker

    sticker
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    Sorry for the delay in replying, been out watching the Matrix Reloaded.........................now there's a film which will give a suba good workout :devil: :devil:

    The only speaker set to small was the surrounds, everything else was large.

    Cheers
    John
     
  22. Jeff

    Jeff
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    That would have probably been enough, it would have been interesting if you tried all the speakers set to large. i.e no bass management. What about LFE? did it have the option to send LFE to sub + mains? How was this set?
     
  23. sticker

    sticker
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    from memory I don't believe that I had the option to set the surrounds to large.

    LFE was set to go to sub only. That was the strange thing, with the PS1000 you could certainly hear it but the Servo was just a rumble. Now though with the AV8/P7 you can feel it in your legs and stomach. With music now its much more integrated.
     
  24. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Bass management is done REALLY badly on most receivers and stick out loads of nasties (distortion), the situation is getting better now though but put an amp (even a cheap one) that does bass management well with a great low diostrotion sub, well it is magic. I would avoid ALL bass management (particularly in the digital domain) until it is proven that the receiver / processor does it right.
     
  25. EvilMudge

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    Spare a thought for those with M&K speakers Nic, they are almost unusable without bass management.:nono:
    In fact most sealed box designs are crying out for some decent digital filtering.:smashin:
     
  26. Jeff

    Jeff
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    That just makes it even more important to choose the right processor/receiver.
     
  27. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Agree totally but what about good analogue filtering, say an M and K box or the Outlaw?

    I wonder why M and K make such a box then? :):)
     
  28. EvilMudge

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    Is there such a thing as good analogue filtering? I spent some time searching, and even in the active domain you always seem to be trying to correct one problem with the filter by using another filter with it's own attendant problems. Though to be honest most people probably won't notice phase and linearity errors at 80Hz.:smoke:
     

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