Can 85” LCD be too big to enjoy very good picture quality when you watch mostly 1080i?

Grendel7

Member
Dear forum members

I have a dilemma what to choose.

I have been considering the purchase of Sony 75” X95J.

However, I also came across the last year Sony XH9505 but bigger in size – 85”.

The price is comparable. Therefore the question emerges: is it better to buy a more advanced model but smaller: 75X95J or a bigger TV 85XH9505 but with worse processor, more power consumption, worse speakers etc.

If a bigger screen should be my option, I have some doubts in relation to the quality of the picture.

I am planning to watch mostly football, nature documentaries, and some tv series. I don’t necessarily need a very big screen since for movies I have an Epson projector and a 140” screen. My broadcast is from tv Sat tuner mostly in 1080i, occasionally in 4K.

The distance from the screen is no problem for me. I can sit within 1m -5m.

I am worried that the quality of the picture on a bigger screen 85” will be significantly worse than on a 75”. The whole process of upscaling from 1080i to 4K may look significantly worse on 85” than on 75”. In addition to that I may observe (on a bigger screen) more other typical flaws of LCD panels like more blooming, more clouding etc. Am I right?

Which model should I choose?

I will be very grateful for your comments.
 
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Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
In my opinion, if you have acute eyesight, you would want to be at your 5m maximum distance away.

I find only with a 65" at 4.2m away that 1080 is about bearable. A bit shocking though if straight after watching 4k.

Upscaling to 1080 to 4k, tried using Shield Pro, TV, BR player all separately and find the little niggles with the upscaling still irritating at 4.2m away and better with upscaling off.

720p is unbearable and we won't watch it anymore. Only thing we will watch worse than 1080 is it is something old (i.e. looks blurrovision anyway) like Only Fools and Horses etc.

If we miss a programme and have to do it on catchup in 720, feel like it gives me a headache haha! And with the PCM sound just to top it off!
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
I've also just re-read your post, sorry, you mentioned football.

We only watch it every two years, European and International.

None of our equipment supported iPlayer's 4k stream.

In 1080 on our 65", it was awful. Sorry, I have to be honest. At 4.2m the 65" made it look blurry. That's with 100% strength and quality signal on a Freeview FVP-5000T.

If my 2014 plasma 50" wasn't so heavy I would've gone and got it back out of the spare room upstairs and put it back for Euro 2020. I'm hoping that iPlayer is sorted for World Cup 2022 or, if not, I need to look for something that will stream it in 4k.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
In my opinion, if you have acute eyesight, you would want to be at your 5m maximum distance away.

I find only with a 65" at 4.2m away that 1080 is about bearable. A bit shocking though if straight after watching 4k.

Upscaling to 1080 to 4k, tried using Shield Pro, TV, BR player all separately and find the little niggles with the upscaling still irritating at 4.2m away and better with upscaling off.

720p is unbearable and we won't watch it anymore. Only thing we will watch worse than 1080 is it is something old (i.e. looks blurrovision anyway) like Only Fools and Horses etc.

If we miss a programme and have to do it on catchup in 720, feel like it gives me a headache haha! And with the PCM sound just to top it off!
Just to clarify.... You can't turn up scaling off, if your devices output anything less than 4k then the tv does the upscaling.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Oh well my understanding was that with what the TV calls the "True HD upscaler" switched off it just shows a 1080 picture expanded to the screen, i.e. there will be 4 pixels showing the same thing for each 1080 picture pixel to be displayed. As there are twice as many vertically and horizontally.

With it switched on, it tries to do clever things based on adjacent pixels and "make a picture" into 4k, and that's called upscaling. Certainly, with "True HD upscaler" on, it does a great job of sharpening the picture most of the time. Then sometimes when it gets funny textures to display, such as Kim Tate's marble back drop in her kitchen Emmerdale it struggles and does a sparkly thing. Hence, I've turned it off.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
Oh well my understanding was that with what the TV calls the "True HD upscaler" switched off it just shows a 1080 picture expanded to the screen, i.e. there will be 4 pixels showing the same thing for each 1080 picture pixel to be displayed. As there are twice as many vertically and horizontally.

With it switched on, it tries to do clever things based on adjacent pixels and "make a picture" into 4k, and that's called upscaling. Certainly, with "True HD upscaler" on, it does a great job of sharpening the picture most of the time. Then sometimes when it gets funny textures to display, such as Kim Tate's marble back drop in her kitchen Emmerdale it struggles and does a sparkly thing. Hence, I've turned it off.
I'm guessing that your TV is attempting to do something with the upscaled image to try to improve it.

A couple of articles on upscaling........


 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Thanks for not calling me a massive bell end @DavidT you should have done... you probably just thought it.
Yes, I didn't know what upscaling meant. It's just "fit to screen".
But, yes, the True HD function is where it is trying to do something clever (as I said above) to make the 1080 look more like 4k. It's called upscaler by Toshiba, so I am glad that a huge corporation also didn't know what it means 🤣
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Hard to recommend a 2021 model right now given prices are so high. That's why you're looking at getting last years model at a larger size for similar money.

Regarding upscaling, 1080i broadcast TV will look a lot worse on a larger model. You'll probably want to balance how close you view if you are using that quality content. Probably about 3.5m will be okay on a 75", any closer and you'll start to see more impurities.

Sony's are very good at upscaling 1080i, but if you are using a sat tuner that outputs 4k unless you explicitly set it to output 1080i when watching that content, and 4k when watching 4k then the TV will never do the upscaling, and instead it will be down to your tuner box.

Why not the 75" XH9505?
 

Grendel7

Member
Why not the 75" XH9505?

Thank You for your comment.

X95J seems to be much better than XH9505. At least on the paper and a few reviews (I am still waiting for more proffesional reviews).
Better processors. (Better upscaling)
Better speakers.
Significantly reduced power consumption.
Possibly less blooming and clouding.

So, I will have to lean towards 75" model instead of 85".
I have always thought that the bigger the better.
Probably 85" oled may be more bearable in terms of picture quality than 85" LCD.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Multiplying up, based on 22p a unit and TV on 10 hours every single day, that's about £51 more a year to run.
Are you sure it actually uses less power when it is on though? And it's not quoting "average" as including some sort of power saving timeout function?
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
75X95J SDR average power consumption 170 W
75XH9505 SDR average power consumption 247 W
Would be good to know how they come to these figures, and whether the method of rating is different from year to year. I expect the figures are not accurate at all, and instead based on some fancy default power saving settings that are turned on. For example, the energy saving picture mode that should never be used.

Main issue with power consumption on LCD TVs is down to HDR and the fact it pushes the backlight to full, so less power consumption on the X95J could mean the TV ends up being dimmer. If the figures are true, its not a positive at all in my opinion.

I could be wrong, but I very much doubt they've suddenly found a way to drastically improve power consumption. Updates year to year are very incremental, and sometimes newer TVs can actually be worse than ones from the year before. So not only would I not consider buying a 2021 model now due to heightened prices, I'd definitely wait for some good professional reviews first.
 

-Ad-

Well-known Member
Just get the 2020 85" X9505, it's a fantastic set.

We had one delivered a few weeks ago and it's astonishingly good for £2200. I think I prefer it to our nice older 2019 Samsung Q95.

We returned a 3month old Samsung 85 Q70 as the panel died a bad death and the Sony is soo much better I was a bit shocked in all honesty (even though it was edge Vs local LEDs).

Newer 2021 sets are incredibly overpriced!
 

Grendel7

Member
Would be good to know how they come to these figures, and whether the method of rating is different from year to year. I expect the figures are not accurate at all, and instead based on some fancy default power saving settings that are turned on. For example, the energy saving picture mode that should never be used.

Main issue with power consumption on LCD TVs is down to HDR and the fact it pushes the backlight to full, so less power consumption on the X95J could mean the TV ends up being dimmer. If the figures are true, its not a positive at all in my opinion.

I could be wrong, but I very much doubt they've suddenly found a way to drastically improve power consumption. Updates year to year are very incremental, and sometimes newer TVs can actually be worse than ones from the year before. So not only would I not consider buying a 2021 model now due to heightened prices, I'd definitely wait for some good professional reviews first.

The same method of measurement for both TV sets. Below the results both for SDR and HDR
 

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Dodgexander

Moderator
The same method of measurement for both TV sets. Below the results both for SDR and HDR
That is the same standard, not method of measurement. It doesn't control what settings the TV uses by default and doesn't indicate how the TV is used. If the new X95J gets as bright as the XH9505 and If I were a betting man I'd place money on the actual energy consumption in normal use not being any different. It could be something as little as the backlight by default being dimmer on the X95J.
 

Grendel7

Member
We have to wait for first professional reviews of X95J.

I think there might be some truth about reduced power consumption.

The same company realeases (in 2020 and in 2021) the same energy certificate and energy label.
Did they manipulate or change the method? The certificates look exactly the same with the same comments.

In 2019 there were different energy classes and different method. For example model XG9505 was classified as class B.

However, models XH9505 and X95J should be measured according to the new guidelines. They are both classified as class G.

The main rival (of X95J) Samsung 75QN91A has even less power consumption on SDR but in HDR uses more power than Sony 75X95J. Taking into consideration the huge brightness of Samsung - it makes sense.
 

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Dodgexander

Moderator
We have to wait for first professional reviews of X95J.

I think there might be some truth about reduced power consumption.

The same company realeases (in 2020 and in 2021) the same energy certificate and energy label.
Did they manipulate or change the method? The certificates look exactly the same with the same comments.

In 2019 there were different energy classes and different method. For example model XG9505 was classified as class B.

However, models XH9505 and X95J should be measured according to the new guidelines. They are both classified as class G.

The main rival (of X95J) Samsung 75QN91A has even less power consumption on SDR but in HDR uses more power than Sony 75X95J. Taking into consideration the huge brightness of Samsung - it makes sense.
I think you're missing my point. The energy certificate does not control the setting used on the TV when tested. They will either use out of the box settings, or power saving settings which can be configured by Sony before the TV is even tested.

Therefore power consumption comparisons are next to pointless, many of these settings can, and will be disabled by most people for every day use.

These TVs typically are copies of one another year to year, so the new X95J will not have a drastic change in power consumption unless its significantly dimmer. There's no magic technological change that could have reduced the power consumption.

You can view the method of testing for the US energy star guidelines here: https://www.energystar.gov/sites/default/files/ENERGY STAR TVs Test Report - April 2021.pdf

Reading the document states that their testing is based on measuring the power consumption of each picture mode on the TV. So a TV that ranks a lower power consumption whilst using the same technology is only going to have dimmer modes by default.
 

Grendel7

Member
Just get the 2020 85" X9505, it's a fantastic set.
What source do you have for your 85"?
Do you watch any 1080i from sat decoder?
Did you compare PQ of 85" vs 75"?

I think you're missing my point. The energy certificate does not control the setting used on the TV when tested. They will either use out of the box settings, or power saving settings which can be configured by Sony before the TV is even tested.

Therefore power consumption comparisons are next to pointless, many of these settings can, and will be disabled by most people for every day use.

These TVs typically are copies of one another year to year, so the new X95J will not have a drastic change in power consumption unless its significantly dimmer. There's no magic technological change that could have reduced the power consumption.

You can view the method of testing for the US energy star guidelines here: https://www.energystar.gov/sites/default/files/ENERGY STAR TVs Test Report - April 2021.pdf

Reading the document states that their testing is based on measuring the power consumption of each picture mode on the TV. So a TV that ranks a lower power consumption whilst using the same technology is only going to have dimmer modes by default.
It seems that I may be right about less power consumption of X95J.

The latest hot review from rtings shows that X95J 75’ has power consumption of about 95W and max 164W

While the previous model X950H (but 20 inches smaller!) 55’ consumes about 72W and max 169W.

The site always takes measurements on more or less the same settings.

 

-Ad-

Well-known Member
What source do you have for your 85"?
Do you watch any 1080i from sat decoder?
Did you compare PQ of 85" vs 75"?
Mainly the inbuilt apps and Blu Rays through the PS4.
No sat or aerial, that's something old people do :p
Nope, just bought the 85 as it's the size we needed for 5.5m viewing distance. Have a 75 Samsung Q90 from 2019/20 and I'd say they're both just very good sets.
 

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