camcorder usb firewire connection questions

Discussion in 'Camcorders, Action Cams & Video Making Forum' started by doggy, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. doggy

    doggy
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +47
    Hi all. I have a JVC GR DVL357.
    I was wanting to back up some old tapes onto DVD or the pc.
    Now, I used to use firewire on my old pc. My new pc gigabyte z77x d3h doesnt support firewire.

    so my options appear to be as follows- buy a pci firewire card. Or can I buy a usb3 cable that will transmit data fast enough to record/convert?

    Normal usb2 is only good enough for still images.

    Any ideas? cheers.
     
  2. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    24,534
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Redditch
    Ratings:
    +4,184
    You need the pci firewire card.
     
  3. doggy

    doggy
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +47
    ok. I'll pick one up. That's a bit of a bummer though.

    Incidently as I have your attention can I ask what software you use? I normally use Windows movie maker. Is that a decent one?

    Thanks.
     
  4. rogs

    rogs
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,387
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Dorset
    Ratings:
    +383
    I use the freebie WinDV to capture DV tapes. Works fine.

    As Graham says, you will need a Firewire card. Although USB2 has a fast enough transfer rate on paper, it doesn't support the continuous data stream you need for real time DV tape transfer. So the USB to Firewire converters and adaptors are a waste of money for DV video transfer....
     
  5. doggy

    doggy
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +47
    yeah i thought usb2 was too slow, but I hoped usb3 would be fast enough as it is faster than firewire.
    the other problem i theoretically would have is finding a usb3 cable.
     
  6. 12harry

    12harry
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,774
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +388
    glt says "Get the card" - surely that's the easy bit? - about £10 or less, but get one that has both 4-wire and 6-wire sockets.
    FWIW I bought a PCI-version, so as to leave the PCI-Xpress slots available when really fast data is flying about.

    I understand the USB/Firewire converters are used only for "other Firewire" applications; but they won't tell you this if they smell a Sale, will they? Not sure that faster USB solves the problem, though.

    The PCI-card is the easy route...surely?
    Good Luck.
     
  7. doggy

    doggy
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +47
    yeah a card is the easiest way to go.
    i almost bought one last night then i noticed that there might be a problem with windows 7 and firewire.
    i just need to look into it a bit more.
    i have firewire ports that plug directly into the motherboard but my new board doesn't have the sockets. presumably because usb3 has replaced firewire.
     
  8. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    24,534
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Redditch
    Ratings:
    +4,184
    I use a pci express firewire card on my laptop with win 7 with no issues. Normal PC cards usually have both external ports and sockets for the ones you already have.
     
  9. doggy

    doggy
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +47
    good point, pciexpress might be ok with win7.
    possibly problems only occur on the older pci cards.
     
  10. MarkE19

    MarkE19
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    17,544
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Rainham Essex
    Ratings:
    +2,523
    Actually 'on paper' even USB2.0 is faster than firewire
    USB2.0 = 480mbps
    Firewire = 400mbps*
    but as already mentioned firewire has a constant rate but USB is burst rate and transfer from a tape device requires a constant transfer rate, so USB at any speed simply wont work.

    * there are also faster versions of firewire but camcorders all have 400mbps ports AFAIK.

    Mark.
     
  11. 12harry

    12harry
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,774
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +388
    FWIW Firewire is old tech and I understand an Apple patent, so MBO makers will drop it to save money.
    Also, omly older (Tape-based) Camcorders need it, so that's the penalty with proigress.

    glt, I only suggested PCI so as to preserve PCI-Xpress slots for more urgent applications. I don't think Firewire is really fast and that why they come in PCI flavour.. Of course PCI-Xpress will do just as well, but many MBO's don't have many free, whereas plain PCI's are more plentiful.

    + Good to learn it's OK on Win7 - I haven't had the opportunity to try my Firewire ports, but Win7 accepted them OK - I just don't yet have access to a Tape-based camcorder.

    I bought the Firewire, just in case I might - and the plain-PCI cards are going out of fashion.
    (For £7 it was an easy-buy.)
     
  12. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    24,534
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Redditch
    Ratings:
    +4,184
    It's a laptop so no choice and the cards are hot swappable anyway. I have both firewire and usb3 cards. Firewire comes in two speeds 400/800. 400 is fine for DV so I doubt there are any camcorders with firewire 800 ports.
     
  13. MarkE19

    MarkE19
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    17,544
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Rainham Essex
    Ratings:
    +2,523
    Just to be pedantic thought I should point out that there are in fact at least 4 firewire speeds. There is also FW S1600 & S3200 at 1.6Gbit/s & 3.2Gbit/s respectively :p

    Mark. :devil:
     
  14. doggy

    doggy
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +47
    hi guys. i ordered a pcix card a couple of days ago. i have 3 pcix slots and only one pci.
    i also ordered a few more tapes and a head cleaner.

    in the past i have recorded straight to a samsung dvdr 122, i think. i just noticed the quality isnt that good.
    cam i ask whats the best way to replicate the quality thats on the tape?

    thanks.
     
  15. MarkE19

    MarkE19
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    17,544
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Rainham Essex
    Ratings:
    +2,523
    A DVD uses highly compressed MPEG-2 video, and when the compression is done in real time it will most likely be lower quality than a multipass compression. So to keep the most quality possible I would capture DV tapes to a PC as a DV .AVI file (~13Gb per hour) as there is no additional compression done at capture stage. Any editing is also not going to cause any generation losses due to the low compression of the files. Once you have the footage as you want it then use a good DVD authoring program to compress & author the footage and burn it to a disc. In most cases there should be little or no noticeable loss of quality from the original .AVI files - as long as you keep to about 1 hour per SL DVD, but may get away with upto 2 hours.

    Mark.
     
  16. doggy

    doggy
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +47
    hi guys, just an update, my pcix card came today. i fitted it and it works fine. as i plugged in the camcorder nero open up automatically. is it worthwhile using nero to capture?

    thanks
     
  17. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    24,534
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Redditch
    Ratings:
    +4,184
    The nature of DV is such that if all you are doing is capturing video they will all work the same. More sophisticated programmes offer features like high speed logging so you can zip through a tape and then only capture the clips you want and even camera recording control so you can do time lapse recording direct to a PC.

    This is the most capable capture programme I know of, but if all you want to do is capture DV video you don't need it.

    Video Capture Software and Scene Detection - Scenalyzer
     

Share This Page

Loading...