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Calling all NTSC HV20 users in 'PAL' land ... !

tausifs

Well-known Member
Hi,

I have a 60Hz NTSC HV20 and I am in a 50Hz PAL country (UK).

The general advice is that we would have been better off with the PAL 50Hz version of the HV20, but for whatever reasons, we chose to go with a 60Hz HV20 model.

I only shoot HD footage, not SD, and I never try to downgrade the HD to SD, therefore to all intents and purposes, the use of the term NTSC is superfluous and from not on, I will refer to my HV20 as the 60Hz model. (That aside, even if one were to convert to SD and record to DVD, most UK DVD players and TVs would be able to display it.)

Originally, I felt it would be better to get a 24p capable model rather than 25p model, as 24p is closer to a film-like look. But in terms of the film-like look, i would now imagine that to the eye when done properly, they would look near enough identical !

However, shooting in 24p (and probably for 25p too), in my experience at least, you have to use a tripod as handheld shots are just too jerky to watch (also 24p with any camera does not capture fast motion well). And as I use the camera only candidly, I imagine I will never use a tripod, therefore that rules out the use of 24p mode and now I only shoot in 60i.

So, I would like to know what your experiences have been, using your 60Hz HV20 in a land that is 50Hz and if you have regrets (or absolutley none!)about your choice of model .

Personally, I have had mine for over a year. I was in New York and needed a decent HD camcorder ASAP, and I knew about the HV20. I use it only on vacations but so far it has served my very modest HD means well and I have no regrets to date.

Thank you
 

richard plumb

Distinguished Member
in my opinion you picked the most flexible option. Unless you absolutely need to burn a dvd for your gran who doesn't have a 60hz capable tv, them your footage will play on anything.
Conversely, 25p or 50i may not play if you want to send clips to relatives in ntsc countries.
 

glesgaguyav

Active Member
Originally, I felt it would be better to get a 24p capable model rather than 25p model, as 24p is closer to a film-like look.

I don't think this is entirely true.

The NTSC users have to perform "Pulldown" to achieve the same results that PAL users can achieve straight away.
As far as I know 25p is closer to "film" than 24P.

Also there are many NTSC users who shoot in Progressive would love to have PAL cameras because of the 25p ability
 

redsox_mark

Distinguished Member
Film has historically been 24p. Nothing to do with PAL or NTSC, it is just that 24 frames/sec where chosen as the minimum amount needed (to use as little film as possible).

When shooting video, the NTSC world talks about 24p as 24*2.5=60; which is the basis of getting 24p from 60 with 3:2 pulldown.

glesgaguyav is right that 25p is easier (doesn't need complex pulldown). Hard to tell any difference between 24p and 25p. Commerical movies released on PAL use 25p instead of 24p, so run 4% faster; most people don't notice.
 

Member 55145

Distinguished Member
have to say i agree with others. 25/50 is the better bet

can be slowed down for 24. and is compatible with local tvs/dvds

not to mention you will have trouble if something running at 50hz gets in your shot (FL lights and TV's for instance with flicker)

on a positive note. you may be able to flash your camera to work at 50hz.

either way films are not exclusively shot at 24fps. for some action scenes they actually shoot at a higher framerate then convert to 24. this avoids trails on moving objects.
A good example is on the die another day DVD when they captured hallie berry slow-mo coming out of the sea at loads of different framerates to find out which one gave the best look
 

Rob100

Well-known Member
But as the OP has stated he uses 60i most of the time.

I'd say you've made a wise choice and if I ever get a HD camcorder I'll do the same.
 

senu

Distinguished Member
I suspect the differences between the PAL and NTSC models of the HV20 for HiDef are far less than the similarities
Although I haven't used the NTSC model, my experience with the 25p mode with the PAL version did not really leave me overwhelmed..
This was even less so with the HG 10
As such I think for anyone considering the HV20 , buy it for its great HDV abilities , not whether it can do 24 or 25p TBH
 

Snake79

Active Member
I have a question for you guys, I am interested in the HV20 and hope you can help. I don't have much knowledge with camcorders and wanted to know can you transfer the HD footage to a PC at full resolution for editing? The reason I ask is that I have used a standard def mini-dv JVC camcorder before and was never able to save the footage at a higher res than 240x320, which looked awful. I even purchased the full version of the bundled editing software that enabled you to burn to DVD, but I still could only get low res video out of it.

When connecting the JVC to my tv via S-video the picture looked great, presumably the resolution was 640x480.

Thanks.
 

redsox_mark

Distinguished Member
You must have been doing something wrong then with the JVC; did you capture using Firewire? Any PAL DV camcorder will output the full 720x576 over Firewire (or 720 x 480 for NTSC).

With the HV20, it will capture at 1440x1080 (using Firewire).
 

glesgaguyav

Active Member
I suspect the differences between the PAL and NTSC models of the HV20 for HiDef are far less than the similarities
Although I haven't used the NTSC model, my experience with the 25p mode with the PAL version did not really leave me overwhelmed..
This was even less so with the HG 10
As such I think for anyone considering the HV20 , buy it for its great HDV abilities , not whether it can do 24 or 25p TBH

I totally agree with this.:)

Too much is made of 25p ability, IMO it's good for Videograghers who want to edit their footage and achieve certain looks/effects without having to de-interlace, or it's usefull if you want to make "frame grabs", for most "point and shoot" situations I find it's best to stick to 50i the results are excellent:smashin:
 

Member 55145

Distinguished Member
I have a question for you guys, I am interested in the HV20 and hope you can help. I don't have much knowledge with camcorders and wanted to know can you transfer the HD footage to a PC at full resolution for editing? The reason I ask is that I have used a standard def mini-dv JVC camcorder before and was never able to save the footage at a higher res than 240x320, which looked awful. I even purchased the full version of the bundled editing software that enabled you to burn to DVD, but I still could only get low res video out of it.

When connecting the JVC to my tv via S-video the picture looked great, presumably the resolution was 640x480.

Thanks.

you werent using windows movie maker were you? that does have a default of a low resolution like that. you want to pick dvi-avi
 

Snake79

Active Member
Thanks for the input guys. I was using ImageMixer to get the video from the camcorder to the computer using USB. I don't have firewire on my pc but the JVC does have the connection. There is nothing in the manual about selecting resolution, or what you have to do to get the best res out of it, in fact it was next to useless.

I'm not very technically minded when it comes to video and only tried it a few times as the camcorder is not mine so never really got a chance to solve it. I tried a couple of freeware programs and a trial version of Pinnacle but encountered one problem after another. What it did do was put me off buying one though.

HD camcorders have got me interested though, as I have recently bought a new 1080p tv and wanted something good to watch on it.
 

glesgaguyav

Active Member
HD camcorders have got me interested though, as I have recently bought a new 1080p tv and wanted something good to watch on it.

If you don't have the Firewire option on your PC then you may be looking at Card based or HDD HD cams.

If you've got an HD TV then you'll be "Blown Away" with the results:thumbsup:
 

senu

Distinguished Member
If you don't have the Firewire option on your PC then you may be looking at Card based or HDD HD cams.

If you've got an HD TV then you'll be "Blown Away" with the results:thumbsup:
Firewire is dead easy to add to a PC though,:D
 

Snake79

Active Member
Thanks guys, if only that had been mentioned in the manual that you need firewire to get the higher res video.

A Firewire PCI card will probably be my best option, they are cheap as you say. I will give that a go.

I haven't really had a look at the different HD cams out there but the HV20 does look good, it does everything I need and is not too expensive. I have also seen info on the HV30, does anyone know the main differences between the two?

Thanks.
 

glesgaguyav

Active Member
If you can get the HV20 cheaper go for it.

For PAL users the HV30 has only minor advantages, slightly larger LCD and a bigger zoom button, and it's Black:)
 

senu

Distinguished Member
Can a UK 50Hz HV20 display a tape with 1080i60 footage ?
Not unless it is specifically stated to be able.
Although the signal generated is displayable by all HDTVs, I suspect the physical and electronic decoding is specific to NTSC/PAL region
Some camcorders are able to switch automatically and others need to be manually switched but this ability will normaly be stated
As an aside, some Sony "PAL" HDV camcorders were able to play NTSC (60i) tapes without it being stated anywhere ( even Sony pleaded ignorance..:rolleyes: )
Im not sure that now happens.
 

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