Calibration tools and software discussion.

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
I recently bought a used Klein K10A in Canada, and as that happened and i started to surf around to find a spectro, which i did not find inside my current budget, i stumbled across quite a few old Xrite Hubble/ Cencore OTC1000, and wondered if anyone here have experience with those, there is very little user experience to find online.
They sell for around 100£ often with a old Sencore pattern generator.
Im aware they are old and might not calibrate very well, just wonder if its actually a improvement over the newer Xrite i1display pro, specs on the i1d is 0,01 nit min, and the Hubble is 0,0034, thats a worthy improvement for cheap in my mind, however experience with the i1d is that it measures significantly lower than spec.

Anyone with some Hubble experience would be very appreciated.
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
Just got this Sencore set off ebay for 75$, will be fun to play with, in worse case its a nice looking probe, so it can always decorate the HT.

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Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
Sent Klein a email 2 days ago asking if they have a recalibration service in Europe.
To my positive surprise they guidet me to use the ChromaSurf software to upload correction matrix from a reference spectro directly into the Klein, fantastic service.

Sent the same question to Xrite regarding my Eye One Pro, and Hubble, they charge 500 Euro for recalibrating the Eye one pro, and the hubble are no longer supported, and they stop all support for the eye one pro shortly. They will not release the software to upload correction matrix to the probes, so basically worthless service and support, they however was fast with a standard reply suggesting to buy a new Xrite product.
 

Diddern

Active Member
When it comes to JVC autocal, remember that its a lottery with the Spider probes. They can be so bad that your starting point for calibration can be near mission impossible.

The SpiderX must be facing the screen, and have to say don't give anything with my NX9. I have tried 2 different spiderX probes and not recommended to the N series for autocal.

I have now tested 3 Spider5 and 2 of them totally worthless. Also, make the result worse than before.

I got a new one some days ago and that worked as it should do. Facing it to the projector using it as a mirror to center the beam to the lens.

Then after full JVC autocal correcting the 100% gain in the projector with a reference profiled meter.
When that is done, then go to gamma adjustment in the projector and correct the 50% ire with the gamma red green blue. Not more is needed for 98% perfection. With a 2.3 gamma in the projector, you get a perfect 2.35. To touch the bias in the greyscale fudge up your greyscale to a maximum. Only adjust the 100% ire in the greyscale with the gain. Bias is only to use to correct the 1-5% ire in the greyscale all together down for darker and up for brighter. then -1 -1 -1 or -2 -2 -2 and so on.

To just use a spider probe and think you have calibrated your projector is far from true.
The color can be correct but that's most likely all. You need a reference measurement after the autocal.

Here you see how it looks untouched in the greyscale and color after a full JVC autocal on mu NX9. Then with the spider5 in picture nr 1.

Picture 2 adjust just the 100% ire

Picture 3 after corrected the 50% ire and some tweaking to get the best result. Also after the 0-5% ire correction.

Picture 4 is 0-5% ire dark end you see its some too bright in 1 and 2%
This is corrected best as possible with the Bias in the greyscale with -3 -3 -3. Remember this is in my unit, will be different on others.

Picture 5 is the corrected best way on this unit.

Picture 6 is colorspace not touched after the autocal and greyscale corrections, became some better all over after adjusting in the projector the color, but not really needed :)

Then enjoy movie
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Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
Will be exiting to see if the new JVC firmware/ autocal will still support the spyder 5, as it looks right now its the only useful meter for the autocal if your lucky enough to get a good unit as long as that lasts.
Good thing about the autocal is that you have the option to upload a correction matrix to the projector correcting the spyder probe error, it just have to be manually calculated, it wont save the spyder x lack of low light capabilities messing up the grayscale / gamma out of black.
 

Diddern

Active Member
Done a step by step calibration on my JVC X500 for fun, I won't say this is the only way to do it, but it's my recommended best way for best performance on your JVC without losing dynamics and contrast. And the result is stunning.

This works with all JVC models from the X up to the N series.
This is my way, test it out I know some will be shocked how good JVC can be if this is done correctly.
0-5% ire out of black must track perfect, and the black level must not be elevated.
For super perfection, some more time is needed for the calibration but this is a quick calibration to show how to get JVC to shine.
My Iris is manually set to -3 to get my reference light output on the screen. I like 16 FL+, Input level standard 16-235. No need to kill contrast and dynamics with 16-255 , :)
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colinstone

Member
I don't have the tools but I guess worth doing with a sophisticated projector??
 

Diddern

Active Member
I don't have the tools but I guess worth doing with a sophisticated projector??
I see you have the Sony VW590 with that one you need the Sony software and correct the gamma from the program. But you need the tools. You do it the same way as I posted above. But with the program. You get there also fantastic results.
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
I remember when a lot of people were home calibrating I did it on my JVC HD100 using an i1, Tecpel and downloaded software a number of times. if I recall accuracy at low IRE warns great and Lumens were lower then as well. I am guessing to compete with a professional these days would require a signifiant capital investment in kit
 

Diddern

Active Member
I remember when a lot of people were home calibrating I did it on my JVC HD100 using an i1, Tecpel and downloaded software a number of times. if I recall accuracy at low IRE warns great and Lumens were lower then as well. I am guessing to compete with a professional these days would require a signifiant capital investment in kit
I will say its expensive tools just for your own projector. So better to get a calibrator to do the job. But the way I showed here. Not adjusting 80% and the 30% or 20% with the Gain and bias R G B if done totally destroys the dynamics in the projector and get banding in the greyscale.
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
I will say its expensive tools just for your own projector. So better to get a calibrator to do the job. But the way I showed here. Not adjusting 80% and the 30% or 20% with the Gain and bias R G B if done totally destroys the dynamics in the projector and get banding in the greyscale.

I have a Lumagen, calibrated 2 years ago by Gordon Fraser, he's due back to provide a recheck and tweak, I think I am seeing a little too much red in very low ire. I dont think I can go through the pain of the learning curve again in any case ! Bad enough tying to unravel REW
 

JamesBaby

Well-known Member
This is great info and I will try my x30 again to see if I can get even more out of it.

I use the AVHCD disc, should I use full field windows or the smaller ones?

Does zoom affect settings? I have a 2.35:1 screen, but adjust zoom down for 16:9.

What figures do I need to calculate what contrast ratio and lumen output I'm achieving?
 

Diddern

Active Member
I have a Lumagen, calibrated 2 years ago by Gordon Fraser, he's due back to provide a recheck and tweak, I think I am seeing a little too much red in very low ire. I don't think I can go through the pain of the learning curve again in any case! Bad enough trying to unravel REW
Calibrated true Lumagen gives very good results normally. Also, there, ONLY adjust first the 100% in the Gain RGB, not the 80 and 30. Not touch the bias. I guess autocal is used. Just to check in your projector if the bias is touched.
So the same principle as above.
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
This is great info and I will try my x30 again to see if I can get even more out of it.

I use the AVHCD disc, should I use full field windows or the smaller ones?

Does zoom affect settings? I have a 2.35:1 screen, but adjust zoom down for 16:9.

What figures do I need to calculate what contrast ratio and lumen output I'm achieving?
What software and meter are you using?
If you have a laptop with HDMI out you could use that one as a pattern generator with HCFR it makes the job a bit easier.
 

Diddern

Active Member
This is great info and I will try my x30 again to see if I can get even more out of it.

I use the AVHCD disc, should I use full field windows or the smaller ones?

Does zoom affect settings? I have a 2.35:1 screen, but adjust zoom down for 16:9.

What figures do I need to calculate what contrast ratio and lumen output I'm achieving?
10% window
 

JamesBaby

Well-known Member
What software and meter are you using?
If you have a laptop with HDMI out you could use that one as a pattern generator with HCFR it makes the job a bit easier.
I have the i1 Display Pro, with HCFR
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
I have the i1 Display Pro, with HCFR
Perfect, ill recommend you try out the automated generator out of the PC if you have that option, and set up the probe with diffusor in front of the projector, i have to do some different calibrations on a X3 today, so ill be able to snap some pictures of how to setup HCFR.
 

Diddern

Active Member
I have the i1 Display Pro, with HCFR
Remember the setup is really important on this probe. Set up a 100% white 10% window and tilt it slowly up and downwards until you get the highest reading on your screen. Distance around 50-60 cm from the screen.
 

Leo31291

Distinguished Member
I went through the rigmarole of calibrating with the i1 and HCFR with a test disc (couldn't get the automated generator to work) and wow, very laborious. Even trying to get the highest light reading by setting up the probe took a while as it's so sensitive to just adjustments. But it's very satisfying when you get it right. The biggest takeaway I got was not trying to get everything perfect, especially once you get to colours. If you try looking for perfection there it can throw the greyscale and you're back at square 1.
 

Diddern

Active Member
I went through the rigmarole of calibrating with the i1 and HCFR with a test disc (couldn't get the automated generator to work) and wow, very laborious. Even trying to get the highest light reading by setting up the probe took a while as it's so sensitive to just adjustments. But it's very satisfying when you get it right. The biggest takeaway I got was not trying to get everything perfect, especially once you get to colours. If you try looking for perfection there it can throw the greyscale and you're back at square 1.
That's why you need good equipment and a profile that is correct. The I1 can be ok measured against the projector, after finished turn the probe to the screen and adust the 100% ire white 10% window. You are as good as it gets with the probe you are using.
 
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JamesBaby

Well-known Member
Hi guys. Just want to say a big thanks to Strids, and Diddern for all the advice and information on doing the calibration.

I re-did my X30 last night and it has got to have been the simplest and quickest calibration I have done, and also the best I've achieved.

I got the RGB generally to under 1 across the scale, and an an excellent 2.3 gamma from 10IRE. I got the colour temp to track well to 6500k.

One question I have is, if I now adjust the manual iris from max open to a little lower, do I have to recalibrate, or will it just reduce the max white level? HCFR says that I only have around 6ft Lamberts on screen (3.26m wide) on the 100IRE 10% window. I perhaps need a brighter projector?
 

Diddern

Active Member
Hi guys. Just want to say a big thanks to Strids, and Diddern for all the advice and information on doing the calibration.

I re-did my X30 last night and it has got to have been the simplest and quickest calibration I have done, and also the best I've achieved.

I got the RGB generally to under 1 across the scale, and an an excellent 2.3 gamma from 10IRE. I got the colour temp to track well to 6500k.

One question I have is, if I now adjust the manual iris from max open to a little lower, do I have to recalibrate, or will it just reduce the max white level? HCFR says that I only have around 6ft Lamberts on screen (3.26m wide) on the 100IRE 10% window. I perhaps need a brighter projector?
Good to hear that you got a good result.

The main thing here is that doing it the old school way like learned at THX or ISF does not work best.

This because it does not take into consideration what happens in the projector.
This when using gain and bias adjustments together for measuring 80/30 or 80/20 or 80/10 ire.

After doing the way I posted I obtained contrast, cleaner and better greyscale, without banding.
This is just how the adjustments in the projector react to the different ways of doing it.

JVC can be best with contrast, why destroy it in the calibration? JVC projectors will have banding if done the old school way still want to do it this way?. BIAS RGB must not be touched separately. Only together with the same values. This is studied of how JVC projectors react over a long period of time calibrating them. Also out of black is basically 50% of the dark scene experience with JVC why not make it best. That also explains why people don't see much difference when comparing JVC projectors to other brands. If done the way I posted, there are MAJOR differences.

I'm not going into discussions with other calibrators about this, they have to figure that out themselves.
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
Hi guys. Just want to say a big thanks to Strids, and Diddern for all the advice and information on doing the calibration.

I re-did my X30 last night and it has got to have been the simplest and quickest calibration I have done, and also the best I've achieved.

I got the RGB generally to under 1 across the scale, and an an excellent 2.3 gamma from 10IRE. I got the colour temp to track well to 6500k.

One question I have is, if I now adjust the manual iris from max open to a little lower, do I have to recalibrate, or will it just reduce the max white level? HCFR says that I only have around 6ft Lamberts on screen (3.26m wide) on the 100IRE 10% window. I perhaps need a brighter projector?

The X30 will max out around 600 lumen calibrated in high lamp mode fully open iris.
If i calculate that to a 140" neutral gain 16:9 screen you should get around 10fl max, with minimum contrast, i dont know your screen gain and format, is it 16.9 ?
Its not unusual that these JVC lamps drop a lot and fast in this series, so a new lamp will likely give you significantly more light, depending how many hous is on the X30 it will have collected a air bit of dust inside as well, and most likely the lamp blower have no effect as its likely blocked with dust, which helps killing the lamp faster.
Personally ill say the X30 should go with a max 110" neutral screen, bigger the X5000 and newer models are the way to go, as they have the light needed to calibrate bigger screens, they however work best on 120" and up due to the minimum lightoutput limitation around 650 lumen.
 

JamesBaby

Well-known Member
@Diddern Yes I agree, and I didn't touch the Bais/Offsets except to change all 3 by an equal amount.

@Stridsvognen My screen is a 3.26m wide 2.35:1 fixed frame Acoustic, with generic white lycra/spandex fabric (2 layers and 3rd black fabric layer). I suspect its gain is only around 0.8. The JVC lamp has around 3-400 hours I think. I could look to a better fabric I think.

My projector has been cleaned inside. I did it myself as I know how to fix and repair similar units. At each lamp change I have opened and cleaned all the fans and ducts. Mine has been great as its not in a dusty place. Others that I have repaired have been terrible inside. 👍
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
@Diddern Yes I agree, and I didn't touch the Bais/Offsets except to change all 3 by an equal amount.

@Stridsvognen My screen is a 3.26m wide 2.35:1 fixed frame Acoustic, with generic white lycra/spandex fabric (2 layers and 3rd black fabric layer). I suspect its gain is only around 0.8. The JVC lamp has around 3-400 hours I think. I could look to a better fabric I think.

My projector has been cleaned inside. I did it myself as I know how to fix and repair similar units. At each lamp change I have opened and cleaned all the fans and ducts. Mine has been great as its not in a dusty place. Others that I have repaired have been terrible inside. 👍
What type of lamp, original JVC or a after market one?
When factoring in the 0,8 gain screen ill say the lamp might actually be quite ok.
For that wide screen and gain, it wont make much sense to go for a 7 series JVC.
 

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