Question C9/E9 Freesync 2 and Gsync HDR

[T888]

Hi everyone,

Are the new LG OLED TVs of 2019 (C9-E9) still not compatible with VRR + HDR ?

A lot of video games (on PC and One X) are running with HDR. However the VRR option of the C9-E9 was not compatible with HDR (did not have freesync 2 or Gsync 2).

Is it still the case ? I guess so...

If so, these TV are really STILL not future proof.

Will we have to wait 2020 in order to have a real gaming OLED TV ?

 

[next010]

Hi everyone,

Are the new LG OLED TVs of 2019 (C9-E9) still not compatible with VRR + HDR ?

A lot of video games (on PC and One X) are running with HDR. However the VRR option of the C9-E9 was not compatible with HDR (did not have freesync 2 or Gsync 2).

Is it still the case ? I guess so...

If so, these TV are really STILL not future proof.

Will we have to wait 2020 in order to have a real gaming OLED TV ?

Adaptive sync tech
HDMI Forum VRR - compatible with HDR
Freesync 2 - compatible with HDR
Freesync 1 - not compatible with HDR
G-Sync Ultimate - compatible with HDR
G-Sync Legacy - not compatible with HDR
G-Sync compatible - Freesync or HDMI-VRR support under Nvidia branding.

People have reported G-Sync on LG C9 works with VRR and HDR on avsforum and reddit.

 

[T888]

Adaptive sync tech
HDMI Forum VRR - compatible with HDR
Freesync 2 - compatible with HDR
Freesync 1 - not compatible with HDR
G-Sync Ultimate - compatible with HDR
G-Sync Legacy - not compatible with HDR
G-Sync compatible - Freesync or HDMI-VRR support under Nvidia branding.

People have reported G-Sync on LG C9 works with VRR and HDR on avsfo usrum and reddit.

Do they have proof of that ?
It doesn't tell us if the C9-E9 has Freesync 2...

 

[next010]

Do they have proof of that ?
It doesn't tell us if the C9-E9 has Freesync 2...

The 9 series do not use Freesync 2.

It only supports HDMI Forum VRR with a range of 40-120Hz.

LG/Nvidia's G-Sync support is just them implementing support for HDMI Forum VRR on the RTX 20xx and GTX 16xx series cards only.

AMD do not support HDMI Forum VRR but they are working on it for PC GPU's. Xbox One supports Freesync 2 and HDMI Forum VRR.

Multiple people confirmed on avsforum it was working with HDR and I recall someone mentioned the hidden diagnostic screen also displays VRR info if you want to have a look for yourself that person says

I can see vTotal fluctuatng on the Xbox! VRR indication

 

[T888]

The 9 series do not use Freesync 2.

It only supports HDMI Forum VRR with a range of 40-120Hz.

LG/Nvidia's G-Sync support is just them implementing support for HDMI Forum VRR on the RTX 20xx and GTX 16xx series cards only.

AMD do not support HDMI Forum VRR but they are working on it for PC GPU's. Xbox One supports Freesync 2 and HDMI Forum VRR.

Multiple people confirmed on avsforum it was working with HDR and I recall someone mentioned the hidden diagnostic screen also displays VRR info if you want to have a look for yourself that person says

Thank you very much for your response with a lot of details ! Finally someone who knows what he is talking about.
Very nice the secret menu !

To put it in a nutshell, correct me if I am wrong :

1 - The Xbox One X can handle VRR + HDR through Freesync 2
2 - The Xbox One X can handle VRR + HDR through HDMI Forum VRR
3 - ONE X + LG C9 = VRR + HDR on the TV
4 - PC AMD + LG C9 = no VRR on the TV
5 - PC Nvidia + LG C9 = VRR + HDR only on few cards (because of Nvidia implementing HDMI forum VRR)
6 - No idea if LG will update the firmware with Freesync 2
7 - No idea if LG will update the firmware with Gsync Ultimate

I asked all of this to LG Support and nobody was able to answer me like you did.

Thanks in advance.

 

[next010]

Yes that is correct.

LG most likely will not implement Freesync 2 over HDMI because that is a custom solution outside of HDMI Forum standards, AMD engineer talking about it. Once AMD adds support for it there is no need for LG to add Freesync.

G-Sync Ultimate is the hardware solution with the actual expensive G-Sync module from Nvidia inside the display, it is impossible for LG to implement this.

 

[T888]

Yes that is correct.

LG most likely will not implement Freesync 2 over HDMI because that is a custom solution outside of HDMI Forum standards, AMD engineer talking about it. Once AMD adds support for it there is no need for LG to add Freesync.

G-Sync Ultimate is the hardware solution with the actual expensive G-Sync module from Nvidia inside the display, it is impossible for LG to implement this.

All right, thanks.

Any difference between Gsync Ultimate and HDMI forum VRR for Nvidia players in term of "HDR VRR efficiency" on the LG ? Or are the 2 technologies quite the same ?

 

[next010]

All right, thanks.

Any difference between Gsync Ultimate and HDMI forum VRR for Nvidia players in term of "HDR VRR efficiency" on the LG ? Or are the 2 technologies quite the same ?

The HDMI Forum VRR specification is not public so it is not known what it defines. It appears to be a clone of PC display group Vesa's adaptive sync which is what AMD brands as Freesync.

LG's HDMI-VRR is 40-120hz range.
Samsung's HDMI-VRR is 48-120hz range but with LFC support.

Low frame rate compensation triples or doubles frames to put them back into the VRR range, so for example 24fps becomes 48fps, it's a fallback option if the frame rate dips below the lowest VRR range like 48Hz on the Samsung but LFC is not as good as actual fps in VRR range.

Rtings reports the LFC of the Samsungs give it an effective range of 20-120hz however due to the bandwith limits of HDMI 2.0 the LFC is disabled at 4K 60hz restricting the VRR range to 48-60Hz.

LFC is optional on Freesync (see database) but became a mandatory part of G-Sync which is why Nvidia lists some G-Sync displays as having a 1-144Hz or 1-165Hz etc range as they support LFC but their real VRR range is likely the same as Freesync monitor so 40-144Hz.

So HDMI Forum VRR seems to be pretty similar to Freesync in that there does not appear to be a defined range and some features are optional. G-Sync premium displays on the other hand are more strict about their features and can come with things like ULMB, Blurbusters have a ton of info on all this stuff.

 

[T888]

The HDMI Forum VRR specification is not public so it is not known what it defines. It appears to be a clone of PC display group Vesa's adaptive sync which is what AMD brands as Freesync.

LG's HDMI-VRR is 40-120hz range.
Samsung's HDMI-VRR is 48-120hz range but with LFC support.

Low frame rate compensation triples or doubles frames to put them back into the VRR range, so for example 24fps becomes 48fps, it's a fallback option if the frame rate dips below the lowest VRR range like 48Hz on the Samsung but LFC is not as good as actual fps in VRR range.

Rtings reports the LFC of the Samsungs give it an effective range of 20-120hz however due to the bandwith limits of HDMI 2.0 the LFC is disabled at 4K 60hz restricting the VRR range to 48-60Hz.

LFC is optional on Freesync (see database) but became a mandatory part of G-Sync which is why Nvidia lists some G-Sync displays as having a 1-144Hz or 1-165Hz etc range as they support LFC but their real VRR range is likely the same as Freesync monitor so 40-144Hz.

So HDMI Forum VRR seems to be pretty similar to Freesync in that there does not appear to be a defined range and some features are optional. G-Sync premium displays on the other hand are more strict about their features and can come with things like ULMB, Blurbusters have a ton of info on all this stuff.

I can't say that I really get it all but it is nice having some explanation.

To summarize, do you advise to buy an LG E9-C9 in order to have VRR + HDR on Xbox One X and next gen ? Or do you recommend to wait for the next year batch ?

Thanks !

 

[next010]

I can't say that I really get it all but it is nice having some explanation.

To summarize, do you advise to buy an LG E9-C9 in order to have VRR + HDR on Xbox One X and next gen ? Or do you recommend to wait for the next year batch ?

Thanks !

Yeah C9 and E9 are great for current and next gen consoles.

Next years OLEDs from LG are likely to be only small incremental improvements over the 9 series, on the other hand LG rarely back ports those improvements to last years models.

The 9 series are not without their quirks (some of which will be fixed) so maybe there is a case waiting for next years which has more of the issues ironed out.... the decision is yours.

One other thing is that current gen consoles like Xbox do not make full use of VRR due to the way console games are made for example
* often locked to a fixed frame rate, this gen which is almost over was largely 30fps and this makes VRR useless as 40fps is the minimum on a 40-120hz display.
* often use custom vsync modes like adaptive vsync that break VRR
* no defined Xbox VRR range like say 40-120hz so game developers never take it into account when making a game.

Currently on Xbox One only some 60fps games benefit from VRR and not all of them do, some of the newest games are built with VRR in mind like the new Gears 5 (which is 60) and new Star Wars Jedi game has a performance mode which unlocks the frame rate, but few games ever go over 60fps.

Next gen consoles may make a bigger difference as VRR should be standard out of the box on both PS5 and next Xbox with Ryzen CPU making 60-120fps a more viable option.