Buying An Car Soon. After Advice Really?

Discussion in 'Motoring' started by delboyuk2005uk, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. delboyuk2005uk

    delboyuk2005uk
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    I have made my mind up on my next car. Its an Seat Leon TDI FR.

    Now I want to learn about the motor buisness and how it works with when buying an used car and trading in your old car.

    Do the dealer have any way of coming down in price or do they sell for what they are?

    Trade in value for the old car would I expect book price or expect less than that?

    Anything they give me less then book price could I ask to be taken off the price of the caer I want to buy?

    Am just after advice really on what I can get them down to and what I can get off them like any free tax or service or tank of diesel free extras etc.

    Any people who has worked selling cars at delaers or something similar can you advise what the score is?

    Anything else you like to add as well to get me armed when I start to look.
     
  2. lmccauley

    lmccauley
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    The important number is the price to change. That's the price of the car you want to buy minus what they will give you as trade-in for yours. It doesn't matter if they offer £5k trade-in against a car priced at £15k, or £4k trade-in against the same car priced at £14k - you pay £10k either way.

    You generally get the best money for your car by selling privately. Instead of £5k trade-in, you might get £5.5k selling privately. Then go to the dealer and offer him £14k. Your price to change is then £8.5k, and you just saved yourself £1500.

    When I bought my last new car, I asked for and got two free annual services and fog lamps fitted. They seem to be more keen to throw in free options than to take money off the price.

    Take a friend who has bought/sold a few cars, who you can confer with.

    Be prepared to walk away if you aren't happy with the deal.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  3. delboyuk2005uk

    delboyuk2005uk
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    Thanks for that advice ill take that on board.

    Am just after the a to z of car dealers really. How they work and what flexibilty they have etc.
     
  4. dr no

    dr no
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    I would advise you always go for a new used car. Better still go for a demonstrator car. This way you will get a run in new car at ttremendous savings.

    I would suggest that you research everything about the car that you want.

    reviews
    problems with certain models
    new/old/private/trade prices - should know inside out
    what mod/cons comes as standard in a new car and what is at extra cost

    You should have a few, at least 3, examples of same or similar car to by elsewhere at other dealerships. The location of dealership doesn't matter.
    Verbal offers are also good enough. Take phone numbers and car/dealer/website details so they can check themselves.

    Use the incoming '09' plate as another reason for knocking down the price.

    They normally add tax as part of the OTR price but you should be able haggle all or at least 6 months tax.

    Cars are normally sold with a full tank of fuel so shouldn't be an issue.

    If you have your finance ready to hand for an instant buy then you will have that final push.

    Remember it is a buyers market and make the most of it.
    You should be able to achieve 'unbelievable discounts' if you are patient and play your cards right.

    To give you an example I managed to get a 6 month old Demo CLK 280 cabriolet sports with almost all the mod/cons for £7k reduced off asking price. This car was driven as a demo car only for 10 weeks and was £20k less than the brand new price!!!!!!!!!!

    Good luck and get researching:thumbsup:
     
  5. Steve.J.Davies

    Steve.J.Davies
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    there are loads of cars for sale. be prepared to walk away. If you go for the first one you see the odds are you have been had.
    also the colour is never right (geddit, the car is never quite right. never say exactly what would make it perfect for you.).
    and never tell the salesman your (real) budget figure.

    often they will drop the asking price if they smell the chance to sell you finance. IF irs the right car at the right price thats the time to suddenly find you have the cash yourself.
    dealer finance mostly a rip off anyway.

    read up, take someone experienced. don't rush. be prepared to kiss a lot of frogs till you find the right one.

    that model does get thrashed a bit so full immaculate paperwork essential. if the salesman claims data protection stops hm showing you the paperwork then stand up, thank him for his time and walk out never to return to that outlet as its absolute tosh.

    never smile or look enthusiastic about the car. pokerface at all times. car salesmen are experienced tough negotiators. their job is to sell cars for the MAXIMUM price they can get. Unless the price drops at least three times during the negotiation you are getting stuffed in all probability. the you go for a fourth drop plus some extras.
    iron on the forecourt is depreciating like a stone. use this.

    sticker prices are wildly off and are there in case a mug walks in and stumps up and failing that to give the salesman the maximum chance to offer a reduction and still be shafting you for the most he can.

    as a newbie you will be a lamb to the slaughter unless you take an experienced hand with you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  6. SteveTDCI

    SteveTDCI
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    all the above is good advice, do your reasearch into prices etc and don't discount new cars for a few extra ££ you can end up with a new car. Always be prepared to walk away and never fall in love with the car if you do never let the dealer know it.
     
  7. SteveTDCI

    SteveTDCI
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    also look on autotrader to see what cars are going for, both what you want to buy and what you are selling, make sure the choice of diesel is right for you, don't presume it will save you money because it does more mpg, oh and don't be affraid to travel
     
  8. RB5 Paul

    RB5 Paul
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    How does buying the first car you see mean you stand a good chance of being "had"??

    I always thought that if you were going to buy something,you did a bit of research before going to look so you are aware of the sort of prices you should be expecting. And then if you happen to find the right car at the right price that you are happy with then how is that being had??

    Do you go round tesco's fill your trolley then refuse to pay until you've gone and done the same thing round asda, sainsbury's etc??? If you buy that first loaf you saw will you have been had?

    No wonder salesmen are so cloak and dagger with people like you around.
     
  9. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Depends where you are buying from, Franchise dealer? supermarket (car)? online, independant dealer? Private? Keep checking prices online and in local media even if you love one model or make (my cousin has the car your looking at) dont be afraid to look at a few others, Astra, Focus, Golf, Civic etc. Many car sellers run on fixed prices and have some odd practices (big groups for example pendragon/evans halshaw). There is no golden to buying a car just be sensible and get the deal your after if not walk away, its not about crewing the seller, they have to make a living too....
     
  10. RB5 Paul

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    nice to see some good advice :)
     
  11. Steve.J.Davies

    Steve.J.Davies
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    the chances of a 'newbie' prevailing in their first negotiation with a hardened car salesman is approaching zero IMV. It takes practice. Salesman has the proven skills, the newbie has none (unless they are experienced negotiators already of course and can recognise sales and deal with sales techniques).
    The salesman's job is to get the maximum for the car - never forget that.

    A bit like playing cards - if you haven't spotted the pigeon in the first ten minutes then its you. If you don't recognise and deal with everything that is going on in the negotiation then the salesman is 'in charge' and will get the best price he can from you. This means it will not be the best price you can get.

    Also the odds of the first car you see being the right car at the right price are also vanishingly small, especially in the current market. You gotta kiss a lot of frogs....
     
  12. delboyuk2005uk

    delboyuk2005uk
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    Good advice guys, have been researching prices etc so I just wanted to know if the sticker or internet price would they come down from that.
     
  13. SteveTDCI

    SteveTDCI
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    There is always money in a car and it will vary, as a rough guide try valuing the car you intend to buy - vauxhalls website has a link to glasses guide. Its reasonably accurate to. So if the PX price for a Leon is £10500 and the car is on the forecourt for £13500 you will know the dealer has plently to play with. Bare in mind there are costs associated with getting a car ready for the sales pitch.

    As pointed out in the very first post the cost to change is the most important, and providing you get the best deal that YOUR happy with then anything is a result. There will probably be a better bargin in a new car, dealers will be very keen to hit targets so don't dismiss them. Also prices on the Leon vary, when I was looking it was a better option to go new, there was M1 autos (IRC) a dealer in sheffield and one in coventry I tried, sheffield offered me a new one cheaper than a used one with the same spec and a better PX price. Its a buyers market just be prepared to walk away, but remember salesmen do have families to feed too ! Oh and avoid motorpoint, I nearly got thrown out !!! they don't like it if you do your home work and don't want finance.
     
  14. RB5 Paul

    RB5 Paul
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    I take it you teach sales training by he way you assume all salesmen view possible customers as fair game and there to be fleeced. If you managed to wander onto a forecourt of a proper dealership MOD COMMENT...please do NOT make unsubstantiated digs at businesses...you may realise that your poker aggressive sales technique is the best way to put off more people than you sell to.

    Of course the aim is to sell for as much as possible, I believe that such things as profits and overheads play a fairly big part in running a business.

    But you may find that telling the salesman what you want and what you can afford can make the whole process a lot easier because any good salesman will point you in the right direction, in my experience if you play hardball then you are more likely to get a worse deal than if your a reasonable person. Remember people will buy from people they like but also it works the other way round, a salesman will be more helpful to someone they like as well.

    And the next time you get the beers in try your 3 price and wait for the 4th trick and see where that gets you!:rolleyes: A pub is a shop that sells beer and a car dealer is a shop that sells cars, nothing more sinister than that.:thumbsup:
     
  15. RB5 Paul

    RB5 Paul
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    I know see the attitude issue with your comment from motorpoint lol. And if that is the experience of being had then i totally understand. Mis-advertising what you are really getting is a big no no but aren't the cheap prices enticing.

    You get what you pay for and nowhere is that more important than with cars!
     
  16. SteveTDCI

    SteveTDCI
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    with motorpoint my brother was looking at a Ibiza FR, they were advertising them at £7295, cheapest i'd found at a SEAT dealer was £7695.

    We'd already been offered £6250 for his MX5 by the SEAT dealer but motorshaft only offered £4800, they then wanted £80 to deliver, then tax it, then there was a £250 charge for something else, the sales guy was addament his car was cheaper than a SEAT dealer, he tried to say look you can have the car for ££ per week ... no point with that as we had the money, things went down hill from there and if we hadn't of left i'm sure we would have been asked too !!

    People are mislead by cheap prices ... stoneacre around here are the same 0% over 5 years on used cars .. only they don'e exist !
     
  17. Steve.J.Davies

    Steve.J.Davies
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    you must be car saleman !
    beer analogy irrelevant and you know it (though I know places that do do those sort of deals !!).
    have done a LOT of negotiating for cars (at proper dealerships, never been to any in your list) and business related things that cost well into six figures. My technique works.
    telling the salesman exactly what you can afford is exactly what the salesman wants - that way they know what their target figure is to get out out you.
    by all means tell them about the kind of car you are looking for !
    As for best discount - that was for a piece of unique (and good) software that the vendor 'never' sold below list price - I got 86 percent off (Paid 14 percent of what everyone else was paying). software salesmen like car salesman have targets...
    you won't get that on a car - I sure haven't :)
    the salesman's job is to get the maximum for the car, its the buyers job to pay the minimum they can. As for a poker face, giving tells to a salesman is a bad idea. A poker face got me 86 percent off a LARGE sticker price.
    A car that won't shift and is losing the dealer money by the day is a problem for the dealer, use that to your advantage.
    Car salesman have families for sure. So do customers. Caveat Emptor.
    Not saying cars should be free ! but the cash a dealer has invested in car is not the same as what a car is worth. Dealers are not depreciation proof, they can lose money on a vehicle. At what point they want to cut their losses is down to them.
    Times are hard for them, but they are tough for everybody, don't give money away, especially on something that depreciates as fast as a car does.

    Salespeople of every ilk pick up on all kinds of signals that the untrained don't know about. Giving no visual reaction and no verbal answer when a salesman pitches a price has ALWAYS resulted in a follow on and lower price for me.
     
  18. SteveTDCI

    SteveTDCI
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    yeah you can always remind silent and hope the salesman adjusts his offer but you could end up in stalemate with know one talking !
     
  19. RB5 Paul

    RB5 Paul
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    I can understand the poker face whilst negotiating but the general opinion i felt coming across from your first post was that if you bought the first car you saw then you stand a good chance of being "had" i just don't understand. You know how much the car is for sale for by the large price in the windscreen and if you do negotiate some kind of discount from that then you have had a good deal. The only time where you would have been "had" is if the car is unroadworthy or cloned or a cut and shut or something.

    To my mind advice like that just puts the frighteners on people when you will usually find it is the minority of car dealers that will get involved with dodgy motors. The vast majority are honest people trying to earn a living.

    It also suprises me that someone of your diligence when it comes to getting a good deal even ventured onto a motorpoint site... if it seems too good to be true it usually is.......

    But you bartering pub sounds good lol i'm up for a bit of that.:smashin:
     
  20. Steve.J.Davies

    Steve.J.Davies
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    I always buy cars face to face.

    A discount from the sticker price does not make a good deal. sticker prices are a wild punt and put up so the salesman can offer a 'discount' and look good and make the punter feel that they have 'won'. getting it for the right price is the object not 'some discount'.
    I new punter will get fleeced by paying over the odds, never found a salesman yet who didn't go for the max they could get.
    The salesman (of anything) is in a battle to get the customer to part with their money.
    the poker face works, never had a stalemate yet, just keep your nerve and the salesman will come up an offer. try it on door to door people.
    car salesman may 'draw stumps' but what you do next depends on the current offer. keep the poker face until you get to the price you think is right - having done your research first to know what the 'correct' price is. If the salesman was already there you wouldn't need the poker face, you would be talking about being able to do the deal today and the 'bits and bobs'. mats, fuel, tax type stuff that will seal it for you.

    And don't just look at the showroom stuff, the part ex's round the back often have real bargains that you can pick up for peanuts as a cheap shopping/commuter car.

    You can walk out with two cars for less than the salesman's first offer !

    have never mentioned 'dodgy' motors, don't know why you brought it up.

    Pub doesn't negotiate, they just do 'bulk' offers (from what I can remember :) )
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2009
  21. RB5 Paul

    RB5 Paul
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    A wild punt?? I really need to see these dealerships lol
    Most forecourt pricing is based on what the various trade guides recommend along with looking at what similar cars are advertised at. Of course the price paid for the car also comes into play. Being business's car dealers need to have a profit margin in the car to stay in business and to remain there for you to return to if you have any problems.

    I bought up the dodgy motors due to your use of the term been "had".

    I'm sure your business dealings well into six figures have been fantastic haggles but i'm pretty certain car dealers don't work to 500% profit margins like software resellers or even the 60% margins that Tesco work to so perhaps making a few hundred pounds after costs on somthing that can cost tens of thousands ain't so bad.

    If everyone bartered so hard when shopping everywhere it'd be better, but why is it so restricted to cars in this country? And the car salesmen get a bad rep because of it
     
  22. FishDUDE

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    Here here! I sell cars for a living (sort of) and I know what the general margin is on most our cars is, usually around a grand before any prep tax etc.
    If we gave you £5000 for your PX we would sell it for say £5988, saying that if you came in with a Range rover petrol and we gave you say 14k we may have it up at £16-16.5k as stocking that type of car is a risc and yes it may well sell straight away but chances are we would have to cover the book drop on the car which is large for a couple of months.

    Again most dealers I think do fund their used stock with short term loans and if they need to free up cash then you may get a better deal, as mentioned they will have larger margins as the have to pay every month for their stocking loans and what not. Wheras the company I work for ownes all of their used car stock and premisis outright thats why we generally have 1k margin - gross.

    Although I belive this to be unusual in the industry.

    Just my thoughts.
     
  23. davidwatsonok

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    I disagree with buying demonstrators, and especially about them being 'run-in'. I have yet to view a car that has been warmed up prior to the test-drive, and everyone boots the tester straight away on the test, especially on sports car tests. They are often used as a pool car by the dealerships too, whizzing out for sarnies, the trainee blagging it for a weekend to impress a girlfriend etc, again, getting thrashed as it simply isn't their car so they don't GIS.

    Pre-registered with delivery miles are often a good deal. Dealerships register them and get plates put on as if they have sold to ensure they meet their sales targets, then sell them later at a reduced price. As long as the mileage is under 20 miles then it (probably) won't have been the company mule.

    If you're looking at used cars then I always recommend looking at the for sale sections of enthusiast forums. Such owners often pamper their cars more than their wife and kids, servicing them well, driving them with respect and treating them to lots of cleaning, polishing and often the better modifications. The major benefit here though is that with forums you can use the search facilities to get a feel for the seller and how they may have treated the car. When I was researching buying my Subaru there were two or three that looked very good on their for sale post, but a bit of digging revealed one had been crashed, and the other two had been modified up and then stripped back to standard with parts sold to mates and some evidence of harsh driving.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2009
  24. shodan

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    I bought a used car from a main dealer a year ago. I was in the market for a car and had been to a couple of dealers during the weekend when I went in there on the way home. I had the wife and baby with me in the old car I wanted to part ex.
    Salesman was nice enough without being too pushy and over about 20 mins I told him the type of car I was looking for, although I was a little flexible on the car itself. I told him I could go to 6 grand but that I wasn't going to and that I was going to get a grand part ex for my car. I also told him that if he helped me to choose the right car for the right price then I'd probably buy from him but if he tried to sell me a car I would tell him not to twice, then I'd walk away the third time he tried. I wasn't rude about it but I didn't want to waste his time or mine.
    When we found a motor we liked (had been bought in the day before) I asked if I could put my child seat in the back and the push chair in the boot. He looked a bit concerned so I explained that if I wasn't allowed to do that then I was leaving but if I did it and it all fit nicely then it was a couple of big ticks off my list.

    After spending some time there I said we would go away and think about it over night and I would call him on monday with our decision and if we went for it then I would come back to inspect it and test drive it once it had been cleaned up.
    Long story short, I bought the car, got what I wanted for my car (I mugged them right off, it was a complete shed!), got a decent price for the one I bought and got them to chuck in 6months tax, a years warranty and Supaguard inside and out. It was normally about £500 but they were doing it for £300 so I said for £300 they may as well chuck it in as a good will gesture because it would be a shame to loose the deal of a couple hundred quid, besides, I was still paying a couple hundred quid over the average ticket price.... The also chucked in 7 day insurance.

    It all worked out for the best and I got a phone call from the salesman a few months later telling me he had moved to another branch but if he could ever help me with a car again he'd be happy to because it was a pleasure being made to work for a sale occasionally!!!
     
  25. davidwatsonok

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    Be wary of them trying to sell you their finance, which is often more expensive than other options. Also, they may try and sell you a warranty. If the car is under 3 years (5 for Hyundai's, and even 7 for Kia C'eed) then it will still be fully covered by the manufacturers warranty.
    We bought two Skoda Fabia's from a place a couple of years back, both about 9-11 months old, and they were adamant that ALL their customers bought their additional warranty. Needless to say I didn't.
    Don't get sold expensive stuff you can do yourself for peanuts, like these paint and interior protection treatments. They're nothing more than a basic wax on the paint which you can buy in for a tenner or less and apply in as little as an hour. On fabrics it'll just be a spray on treatment similar to the silicone spray you can apply to shoes. My neighbor paid about £300 for such a treatment on her new Mini, and 8 months later I noticed the rain droplets had stopped bubbling on the surface, just as I'd expected and about the norm for a basic polymer sealant. I'd have done it for her for £20.
     
  26. delboyuk2005uk

    delboyuk2005uk
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    Oh yeah how much was your quoted an new one for?
     
  27. Steve.J.Davies

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  28. delboyuk2005uk

    delboyuk2005uk
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  29. Steve.J.Davies

    Steve.J.Davies
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    sticker prices are a wild punt. hard bargaining pays.

    quod erat demonstrandum
     
  30. RB5 Paul

    RB5 Paul
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    Hard bargaining can pay as it can anywhere.
    But wild punts will not keep a business going for long regardless of whether it is cars or not. I think you'll find most cars are priced originally with a bargaining margin included but if the car does not sell over time and the price is reduced then some of that bargaining off the screen price is also reduced.

    I mean what would car dealers know about the value's of cars when compared to the average chap in the street:rolleyes: It's not like they buy and sell cars every working day is it.

    I would be more inclined to think that the discounts you expect are more of a wild punt than the actual screen price.
     

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