Business-use insurance on personal car question

Discussion in 'Motoring' started by Qactuar, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    Okay, here's one for the experienced.

    I own two cars. My partner and I are insured on both through a multi-car policy. She does ten miles a day most working days, I do thirty every working day and on long journeys visiting family etc, I drive, so over the year on both, I am indeed the main driver (i.e. no fronting).

    She's not got her own policy, as she's only been driving two years and previously had a company car for both of those years, thus no NCB.

    In her new job, her employer decided that once she'd started, they would tell her a car was 'required' for the role, but gives her no specific allowance to fund the purchase. This is to travel to clients occasionally.

    When she does so, she can claim back 40p per mile on the trip to the client only.

    Today, they've asked her for proof of business insurance cover - something my multi-car policy doesn't have and I don't want to pay for out of my own pocket.

    Plus, to get business cover, would mean both cars and both drivers are included for business, if I am not mistaken, and I do not require that cover.

    Now, she's not signed her contract yet and the car requirement and business insurance is not part of that contract ... but it is in the company handbook - something she has only just received, two months after starting.

    (am also aware they are crap if her contract hasn't appeared after two months as well ... )

    The point here is that I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to pay for the insurance, given that there is no allowance other than 40p per mile, which is standard claiming back in every job I've had that doesn't require specific business cover (you know - driving to another location for work occasionally).

    More to the point, she is only driving off-site about twice a month, and it's all quite local with the very odd exception, and she's only there for six months.

    Where do we stand on this one? Given that the policy is essentially mine (allowing her to earn NCB etc), she's not really in a position to change the policy without my permission and I don't see why we should incur the cost.

    We're just a little annoyed that the firm has sprung this on her, after she's started and didn't ever make it explicit in the interview.

    We even moved house (rented thank god) specifically so she was near the tram line to her job ... and now they are saying she must drive to work instead - we pay premium rent because of the location - one we weren't that keen on originally, but it was less than a five minute walk to the tram for her at each end!

    Thoughts welcome. Any, in fact...
     
  2. Cyland101

    Cyland101
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    Like you I would be irked by this.

    We have business mileage added to both our policies (both my wife and I need to do limited busines travel I thnk declared around 2000 miles per year) and to be honest, it does not add that much to the poilicies. Have you checked what the costs are?
     
  3. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    Hers would be for six months' cover ... about 1000 miles at the very most, more likely 500. I've only just updated the policy to include her, which cost me a clean fortune in itself (plus the £20 admin cover).

    In fairness, it's not the cost ... but more the principle of the matter, and my hand being forced to pay for cover that only she needs and I do not, because of the multi-car. I'm not entertaining the idea of the insurance updated, unless I know for sure we have absolutely no choice (something I am sure is unlikely the case ... right ... ?)
     
  4. Daddy k

    Daddy k

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    You just need class 1 business use, which most insurers will add for free!
    It may be worth checking your existing policy docs to see if its automatically included as it sometimes is.

    As for the wife, a decent broker would be able to negotiate her 2 years worth of NCB on a new policy using written proof from her old work. (I've dome this lots to get customers rates down)

    Her work however are still a bunch of *****
     
  5. Thug

    Thug
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    Your insurance will cover you for social domestic and pleasure (possibly full comp) and commuting to a REGULAR place of work.
    That is the key word 'REGULAR', that will not cover clients premises.
    Its not her employers that are being funny, they are trying to put her right in the eyes of the insurance company (therefore the law).
    If they allow her to continue using her car knowing that she doesn't have insurance to cover it then they can be guilty of 'use, cause and permit'.
    I had to put business insurance on my car so I could drive to courses I attend for work.
    It cost me £10 per year extra (yes TEN pounds).

    I suggest you have a word with the insurance company before getting all upset and defensive.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  6. redaprilia

    redaprilia
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    As above + insurance should be regarded as a "contract of good faith" between both parties IE you should disclose all risk . Business cover wont actually add much ( if any extra at all ) to a new policy but you will have to pay a fee to change a existing policy mid way through the term . Got to be worth it just in case !!
     
  7. Daddy k

    Daddy k

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    Just tell your insurer you need class 1 business use :lesson:

    At most I'd think you would only be charged an admin fee
     
  8. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    Agreed - it's the moving goalposts mid-game that is most annoying. Will seek out the docs online ...

    Wake up on the wrong side of bed, did we?

    Of course I understand the need for business insurance, that's obvious - 10 miles or 10k miles. I'm not daft.

    I'm upset about having to pay for business insurance for MYSELF as well as my partner, when I don't actually require it. Nor did her employer state this from the start.

    Note that the money isn't the big deal here - it's a combination of being ambushed with the "requirement" after she's started her job and after we moved home (we moved 55 miles by the way, hardly a small deal).

    So "I suggest" you consider my whole situation, before dishing out valuable words of wisdom :smashin:

    Agreed, that it's not that hard to sort out, but as above, it's more than a little unfair to advise this after employment has started ... and they knew we were moving to be near the public transport and neglected to tell her that the car was "required".

    So to get back to my original question - that hasn't been addressed as yet ... can she not expect her employer to cover this cost, given the situation? Surely if business cover is required, the business pays for it?

    As for 40p a mile "covering it", 500 miles is £200 to pay for fuel, wear and tear and insurance (on a petrol car), doesn't seem enough, given that more than half of that will be in fuel costs alone.
     
  9. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    Indeed, but, shouldn't her company pay for this, given the circumstances outlined in previous posts? (i.e. we weren't told until now!)
     
  10. Daddy k

    Daddy k

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    Possibly so, however there may not be a cost involved and I've noticed more and more companies expecting lots but offering nothing for things like this s they know the employment market is more in their favour.

    Their pence per mile is often way out!

    And yes they're being dicks (employers) all probably caused by a poor admin person or whoever created the job description.

    What would happen if she didn't have the option of your car? She'd be back out of work all because of them mis informing, or having to purchase a car etc for a few trips per year.

    I like to be difficult at times, as such I'd prob tell them you never informed me I needed to drive, I've already moved for the job, and I'm expected to buy a car for less than 5 trips a year? When I need to travel you can hire a car for me instead.

    However I like to be difficult when people annoy me and I'd prob end up dismissed ;)

    At quotation stage most insurers wouldn't add much if anything for class 1 use,
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  11. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    No class one cover on ours. We'll see what they have to say...!
     
  12. Daddy k

    Daddy k

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    I've added to last post.

    I hope you get an English speaking person on the phone who will simply add class 1 use FOC or just a small admin fee.
     
  13. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    Admiral have a Welsh call-centre who are extremely helpful, so I've no doubt on getting it resolved (that is, when I know they are paying for it).

    Just curious to now see what the employer has to say about failing to inform her in advance...

    ...we'd have moved to a much nicer area for the money we're paying now if we'd known. It's quite frustrating really!
     
  14. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    Ah just re-quoting your added comments.

    I said to be awkward as well. Demand a hire car instead, as it'd probably be cheaper. We did initially plan on only using one car between us, maybe with a spare cheapie car for emergency use when I am out, but as you know, the goalposts were moved. Bummer.

    However, I don't think she has the same confidence with her new employer (albeit temporary), as you or I might have.

    If they managed to drop the ball on something as simple as this, you can imagine how crap they are about other things too. She had to use her personal credit card to pay for a magazine advertisement a couple of weeks ago, as everyone else's company card was at the limit (she's not received hers yet - surprise surprise).

    Let's just say they're not the best to work for ... :laugh:
     
  15. Fred Smith

    Fred Smith
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    HMRC rates went upto 45p for the first 10,000 miles per annum and remained at 25p for over, about two years ago. She could ask her employer to increase the rate or claim the additional back from the tax man.

    I supply my own car for personal and business use and have class 2 business insurance, the 45p (and when relevant 25p) has to cover insurance, fuel, servicing, tyres, deprecation i.e. all car related expense. Though I was told I would have to supply my own car at the interview.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  16. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    My partner pushed back and asked them why they hadn't told her at either the interview, job offer or even the month between old job notice period and starting the new job.

    "Our policy is to tell people about the insurance on the induction." :rolleyes:

    Honestly, you couldn't make it up. We're not talking a paltry job either - she's quite senior in this firm in her position!
     
  17. Thug

    Thug
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    I am not quite sure what rattled your cage with my 'words of advice'.
    I certainly didn't mean anything sarcastic or nasty by them, so apologise if they read that way.

    You say you are upset about having to pay for business insurance for yourself. How much will that be? Have you actually checked yet?
    That's all I was saying, have a word with your insurance company to see if it will incur and further costs or not. You may call them to find that there is no further charge, so all this upset will be for nothing.

    BTW when I joined the police force they never told me I would need business insurance either on my own car. It was only when we started to attend courses or go to work at different departments that we thought we will need it. Being a traffic cop I knew that I would.

    If it does cost you anything, it may be worth while having a word to see if they will reimburse your good lady. It is a little underhanded to not inform her before hand, but would she have turned the job down if they told her she may need to spend an extra £10 on insurance?

    Did she/you know that she would be visiting clients user her own vehicle prior to getting the job?
    If she did then surely you would have known that business insurance was a requirement in that case? As you said 'that's obvious'.
    If she didn't then they are out of order for springing it upon her after you have changed your life for them.

    My wife had a similar situation in that she started a new job and when started was told that she would have to drive to another factory that they owned. It was funny when she told them that she doesn't actually drive at all and doesn't even have a licence. They forgot to ask this minor detail at the interview stage.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  18. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    That's okay, it read funny to me :smashin:

    Ah another point that I ought to clarify - they didn't tell her she needed a car until - you guessed it - she'd already started (partly why we won't bend over and be shafted yet again on top of the car requirement and moving homes!).

    Contacting insurance tomorrow, but I've every reason to believe it won't be just a tenner - it was another £700 to add the other half alone!
     
  19. loz

    loz
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    I am in a similar position using my own car for occasional business use.
    It has never cost me anything extra premium wise to include it.
     
  20. Thug

    Thug
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    Where it cost more in when it is for hire and reward, that is when the price shoots up.
    You wont need that thankfully.
     
  21. gibbsy

    gibbsy
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    Same here. Had to have business cover to do detached duties at other stations other than my own, courses and to be able to carry my fire kit. Always had business cover because the wife used the car for her business, like you I think the extra cost was very small.
     
  22. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    Sounds ideal for a few taxi hires - is this not allowed?

    You say it's a senior role - is the fact that visits are expected a surprise?

    For my first job a car was required for visiting clients - it was made clear from the job spec though - before an interview even. I seem to remember something in the employee handbook about having a properly maintained and serviceable car.

    I wonder what they say when they ask for business insurance evidence and they say they don't have a car...?
     
  23. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    The expected visits were known; but all the other firms she's worked for paid train/hire cars/company car in the same role etc.

    Didn't get a chance to call today...typical.

    As for having no car, that's why we bought one, but that was on the back of being told it was to ensure she got in etc...
     
  24. Thug

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    Any update?
     
  25. Thug

    Thug
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    So Fox, what was the outcome?
     
  26. rongood

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    This ^

    And this ^

    So any upshot?
     
  27. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    Ah yes sorry forgot.

    They want £52.28 to upgrade. Her employer still says we should pay it. I still say "no".

    So she can't go anywhere on business travel.

    Don't get me wrong - that's peanuts and I can afford it. But as above... They moved the goalposts and don't see it as an issue.
     
  28. redaprilia

    redaprilia
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    I know you have your principles but are you seriously risking your partners job security for £53 ? they could turn nasty ?
     
  29. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    Oh she's only there six more months so it's no risk. They're desperate to keep her but doesn't like them.
     
  30. KelvinS1965

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    I know it's off topic, but did you really move house for a job that is only going to last 6 months? :confused: Having been made redundant twice in the past I chose where I want to live first and a job second: Both times I could have kept my job if I'd moved (150 miles in one case :eek: ), but figured there was nothing to stop them moving again or making me redundant in a years time.

    However it just concurs with your wife's experience that some companies think that their staff should bend over backwards for them, moving goal posts as they go along. I think I'd have told them that my credit limit was close if they asked me to pay for the firm's advertising as that seems completely our of order to me.
     

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