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Built in scaler?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Anders T, Nov 29, 2004.

  1. Anders T

    Anders T
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    Hi!
    My name is Anders, from Norway. Just bought my first CRT, a Barco Grapfics 808S, bur I havent installed it yet. I'm new to this, but I understand it is recomended to put a scaler, or linedoubler, between the crt and DVD-player.
    Is any of the new dvd-players with built in scalers good enough to replace an external scaler? I'm thinking about buying the denon 2910 with a faroudja 2310 unit...
     
  2. Vince M

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    :)

    I dont particularly rate any of these scaling chips in dvd players,Though the new Denon with HQV chip should be nice.

    Remember that HD-DVD is not that far away & all these "standard" dvd players though offering a facsimile of upscaled hi def-will not play the real HD discs.

    A safe option is an external scaler with HDTV passthough so you can take a component 'true" 1080i signal out into the scaler then output via rgb at 1080i.
     
  3. Vince M

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    ...I recommend something like the DVDO I-SCAN HD(The plus is out soon!)

    Cracking for the money!
     
  4. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    That Denon uses dvdo scaling I believe. The de-interlacing is done in the HQVchip. I also think that the analogue outputs of scaling DVD players are limited to 480P/576P and that the higher resolutions are only available on the DVI/HDMI outputs....and they will be copyprotected and therefore not much use to a CRT owner.

    I'd go with projectiondream and suggest an off board scaler fed by a good SDI DVD player.....except I'd suggest a scaler by another manufacturer...can you guess which :)

    Gordon
     
  5. Anders T

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    Thank you both, except, Gordon, I'm VERY new to this, so I'm afraid I don't know wich brand you're talking about. The big problem with these external scalers for me is that they're not available in shops where I live, so a brand new dvd player with promising technical features seems like an easy escape. Very useful info about analog output/ no 1080i!!! Thanks a lot! Must keep looking and learning before I intall my big beast, then..
     
  6. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    Anders:......I'm the distributor in UK for Lumagen scalers....you read about them on my website. I think when you are finished you'll have a great picture!

    Gordon
     
  7. Vince M

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    Gordons bang on! Lumagen are real nice as well.

    Can SDI support 720P & 1080I? I thought we need HD -SDI for that?
     
  8. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    HD-SDI is for 720P and 1080i as you say. I was talking about sending SDI (480i/576i) out of a modded DVD player to a suitable scaler. SDI is as close to whats on the disc as we can currently get. Let the off board processor do it's job on that HQ video signal, that's what I say.

    G
     
  9. Anders T

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    looks like the optimal set up is through the sdi-output on a dvd-player and in through a sdi on a scaler, what would be my choices of scaler with the sdi input? Are all of them good for my 808s barco? would any "modded" dvd-player with a SDI output work well with a sdi-scaler? (in other words, do I have to choose scaler first, to suit my pj, and all players with sdi would work?)

    Anders
     
  10. Anders T

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    just curious, what kind of cables is used from sdi to sdi?
    Anders
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    SDI is a 75ohm co-ax cable. Belden1505a is what I use.

    There are plenty of manufacturers of scalers that have SDI inputs.
    Vigatec, TAW, Snell and Wilcox, Terranex, DVDo, Focus Enhancements, Cinematec, Pixel Magic Systems, Key Digital and of course Lumagen. They vary in cost hugely.

    You should choose one based on performance and back up. Hang around these forums and you'll get an idea of what is good or not.

    SDI DVD players vary in performance but on the whole I'd expect properly modded devices to be compatible and if there were issues I believe those involved in the mods would do their utmost to solve them.

    Gordon
     
  12. Vince M

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    I think the optimum setup is 1080i from d-theatre via component into an RGB transcoder(capable of passing through hidef) then via breakout 5 bnc to a display device capable of showing 1080i native,In my view we should be trying to improve the source material rather than bust a gut trying to make low res dvd look like a facsimile of HDTV :)
     
  13. Anders T

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    Right... you're talking about d-vhs, right? but i've already got more than 400 dvd-movies in my collection, just waiting for the cinema to be installed, think i'm going for the dvd with sdi + scaler, but thank you for the advise. besides, d-vhs is not availible where i live (oslo, norway) to my knowledge, anyway..
    Anders
     
  14. GagHalfrunt

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    D-VHS is not officially available here either ...
     
  15. Vince M

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    Anders,
    I had a guy Ive recently visited who has Yamaha Z9 which outputs 1080i via component -Hes transcoding that to RGB into the crt.
    This works for his existing dvd collection and when HD-DVD(AT 1080I) becomes available-and Its not far away-this works for that as well.

    When we talk of benefits from SDI compared to component-they are miniscule..component into a scaler outputted via rgb is excellent-and you can keep that component cable to use on your HD DVD player at 1080i output.

    Trying to save you a few bob!
     
  16. Anders T

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    Thank you, sounds like a healthy option (would also leave me more money for the rest of the setup.) I haven't yet seen for myself the advantage of sdi output on a crt-prosjector, maybe it isn't worth it? Thoughts on that?Anyway, my intallasion is still months away, must keep learning before I buy "the right stuff" for my barco 808s monster
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    The difference between SDI and Component depends on the quality of the component output on the DVD and the analogue input stage of the scaler/HTPC and the quality of the SDI implimentation in both devices. There is no doubt SDI can be a pretty obvious improvement in some situations and pretty inconsequential in others.

    Gordon
     
  18. Anders T

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    Thank you Gordon, but what about the barco 808s? what kind of gear isn't worth the bother, and what is? I must admit the lumagen hdp looks good, but it's rather expensive, the only thing i've come across second hand is the iscan hd (in Norway).
    Isn't there any dvd players with a built-in device that gives good (1080i?)analog video output? (I've read about the farudja 4000, but please, that costs more than my house!)
     
  19. Vince M

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    Anders,
    Tell you what I had a play with today,the Cinemateq(the basic one..)-and thats got the beating of the Lumagen I feel on PAL material-very nice! Looks a class piece of kit as well.
     
  20. Anders T

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    I must agree, the Cinemateq looks stunning! But the Lumagen is available with 5xBNC rgbhv output, perhaps optional on the cinemateq too?
     
  21. Vince M

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    Anders,
    The Cinemateq I played with had 5 bnc`s out? Getting back to the SDI thing,what Gordon says is correct-depends on the kit.
    The only "negative" with SDI is that you are limited to 480 & 576,WHEN HD SDI comes along It will support 720P & 1080I-Then I can see a real benefit using that as an output from a HD DVD player.(One will still need to transcode into rgb though for a crt-unless someone comes along with an HD SDI input board that can be tailored with individual crts.**There is a possibility of this as Its already happening with dvi.)

    But for now,what setup can you have that keeps you a little future proof? Well component from your dvd to an rgb transcoder then 5 bnc to your crt.
    When HD DVD comes along you just substitute the hd dvd into your setup-no cable changing necessary-then you output at 1080i or 720p.

    As I have said to many people,upscaling of a 576i dvd pic-however you do It onlty gives you a facsimile of hdtv not the real thing-you are limited by the resolution of the dvd.You cant create what isnt there to start with!

    The aim of anyone with a hifef capable crt is to feed it true hidef..whether by d-theatre or P.C...then hd dvd.

    You can make dvd look "better" but you cant turn a sows ear into a silk purse!
     
  22. Anders T

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    Thank you, projectiondream.
    Had a look at the cinemateq on their web-page, and the "rear"-picture didn't show any 5 bnc outputs, maybe an early picture..
    a
     
  23. artoj

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  24. Vince M

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    Funnily enough Ive been talking to a guy today who will be putting a Momitsu 880 through Its paces soon.Ill let you know his findings.
     
  25. artoj

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    Has your friend already tested the Momitsu ?
     
  26. Vince M

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    No not yet,but I was reading a review of it on the SECRETS OF HOME THEATRE website abd there view is that its o.k.-nothing special.
    I dont think we should expect too much though given its price,most of these scaling chips built into dvd`s even the top ones aint all that-dont come near a stand alone scaler.
     
  27. Anders T

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    Was afraid of that, if it sounds too good to be true, it most likely is...
    Think I might be going for a crystalio scaler (w/sdi). Any thoughts on a dvd-player (w/sdi) that might suit the crystalio/Barco G808s setup?
     
  28. artoj

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    I wouldn´t give up the Momitsu just because the secrects of home theater said it is "only" OK, since many users have claim that it has super PQ, specially if you do a bit tuning up.

    I sure would like to see a Momitsu by myself in action against a scaler and a HTPC before make up my mind, but this seems to be quite difficult since you can´t buy the Momitsu locally - if you can´t find an used one, that is :)

    Btw I´m using A P4 2.8/Radeon 9600 XT/TT etc. PC with my B D 808 S and I´m really happy with my PQ, but sure would like put it against to a scaler and a momitsu, to see if I could further improve my PQ :smashin:
     

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