1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Budget transport for DAC

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by rulocal, Feb 15, 2003.

  1. rulocal

    rulocal
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    1,144
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +45
    I am looking for a sub £200 DVD player to be used both for video but primarily as a transport for use with a Musical Fidelity A32.4 DAC. As the machines role as a transport is most important I was wondering whether this should mean having a look beyond the normal choices at this price range: Tosh 220e, Pioneer 454 etc..

    Many thanks for any comments.

    Paul
     
  2. CJROSS

    CJROSS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    5,070
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +343
    http://www.hifibitz.co.uk/Warehouse/details.asp?ProductID=PIODV454BK £155 : This is highly regarded from what I have read on HFC by a few users Paul. But are your sure you cant afford a slightly higher spec DVD player, Imean this is not much more in the greater scheme of things, but a DAC like a MF A3.24 should IMO be used off a slighlty higher spec beast than an entry level DVD player :

    http://www.hifibitz.co.uk/Warehouse/details.asp?ProductID=PIODV656BK £339

    If you are really tight for cash, I know that Richers are still punting the Sony NSV900 SACD/DVD Video player @ £250 (I would use one quite easily), this is a bargain for the spec & build of the player IMHO, other than the Pioneer 656 as mnetioned above, your next stop is the £500 ish DVD brigade ie Pioneer 737, Denon 2800 and the like. As you have invested in an audiophile DAC like the MF, are you not best at least trying out a universal player like the Pioneer above.
     
  3. rulocal

    rulocal
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    1,144
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +45
    Thanks for the response. I agree, particularly as I will be building a Home Cinema around this in future. It would be silly to skimp. I will look into both the DV656 and DVPNS900 (although Richers can't get them anymore). I will also look at the newer model the '905.

    With respect to settings how should I be setting up the signal (will I have a choice?). Secondly, and looking far ahead, will it be relatively simple to loop the digital signal through the DAC into an AV processor or should I somehow use the second digital output on the DVD. :confused:


    Thanks

    Paul
     
  4. CJROSS

    CJROSS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    5,070
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +343
    Ru : You can do both if the DAC can loop a signal via an output (Im sure the A3.24 Does BTW my old MF DAC did) but I would generally advise keeping them separate, ie off your DVD player use the coaxial output for music duties & the optical toslink for AV 5.1 signal to a AV reciever, Here is an excerpt of the DAC FAQ :
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41923
    That covers exactly what you are querying I reckon, if you do get a universal player like the 656A there is also some info you may wish to read on page 3 of the thread about what can be passed via the A3.24 with regard to SACD or DVD Audio material. Anyway this is copy/pasted from the FAQ :

    How to connect up a DAC for to a DVD-V Transport which is connected to a DD/DTS 5.1 AV amp for better playback of CD : From the DVD player (Im assuming a DVD-V player with 2 digtal outputs - 1 Coaxial & 1 Optical) the outputs should be routed as follows :

    The Coaxial Output goes to the DAC (This will send a PCM output for CD playback)
    The Optical (Toslink is the Interface Connection type ie little square connector) to the 3802 (This will stream Bitstream DD/DTS for AV playback)

    These 2 digital connections are all you require to do, the type of connection Ie RCA Coaxial is generally felt to be superior to Toslink Optical for streaming PCM and conversely Bitstream is likely to be effected by cable type. So where possible PCM in coaxial. For listening to CD you simply run a set of IC from the DAC to the CD line input (thereby bypassing the AV Amp DACs) the main thing we are trying to do with the DAC is to bypass an AV Amps onboard DACs so we can listen to the stereo DACs processing rather than the AV amps DACs.

    As for the output modes above ie PCM or Bitstream your DVD-V player may autodetect what type of discs your using and set the output that way, if you have an older player or one that does not do this you will have to swtich the mode manually to get the best performance from each format (CD or DVD) check your players manual. The simplest way to think of the signal types is that the DACis a stereo 2 Channel PCM signal and DVD-V is MC 5.1 Bitstream

    One note of caution be sure to never send a DTS signal from a DVD-V through your DAC – a PCM DAC handling a DTS signal sends a very high frequency signal towards the Amp that will generally fry the tweeters on your speakers. One way to safe gurad against this is to switch off the DAC when your watching DTS DVD-Vs, a simple and safe way of protecting your speakers IMO. But you would have to be quite daft to be watching a DTS DVD-V then switch to the CD Line input on the AV Amp with the DAC switched on in the first place, so switch it off when not listening to CDs.
     
  5. rulocal

    rulocal
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    1,144
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +45
    Thanks for your effort, very interesting.

    I have one other question, and if you have already answered it I'm sorry, and I clearly didn't understand the above. In the short term while I only have the DAC + stereo amp, will it be possible to send PCM from DVDs so I can benefit from the enhanced D/A conversion of the DAC instead of the DVD players' internal decoders.

    Many thanks
     
  6. CJROSS

    CJROSS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    5,070
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +343
    Most DVD players will allow you to set the type of output you send from your DVD player RU a simple toggle between Linear PCM or Bitstream used for DD 5.1, my DVD player is always set to PCM output simply because I have a stereo amp, a bitstream signal will still be usable at the DAC end ie it will simply be downmixed to a stereo resolution in PCM, but its preffered to get the signal to PCM especially if the DAC is a PCM device in the first place. Im not that familair with bitstream signals to be perfectly honest, when I watch DD 5.1 mixed soundtracks, the downmixed PCM output from my DVd player into the DAC is more than accpetable, on good soundtracks I struggle to hear the difference between a DD 5.1 mix and a 48Khz PCM track.

    Do a search on PCM+Bitstream above to see what comes up.

    HTHs
     
  7. rulocal

    rulocal
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    1,144
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +45
    On last quezzie please.

    I have the option of two sample rates for the PCM output on the DVD player 48kHz/16bit or 96kHz/24bit, which should I use?

    There is a sample rate selector on the DAC aswell which I have decided sounds best to my ears on 96Khz. should this be relevant to my choice of outputs rate as logic would suggest or am I a complete :clown:.

    Thanks

    Paul
     
  8. CJROSS

    CJROSS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    5,070
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +343
    Ah 96Khz PCM outputs now your talking my DAC brother I take it you ended up with a Pioneer DVD players then? What did you end up getting ?

    Its up to you to be perfectly honest what you set them at, there is no evidence to suggest that a digital output from a DVD player is “better” set @ its highest rate ie at 96Khz when playing any material at a lower sampling rate (ie CD @ 44.1 or DVD @ 48Khz) I cant hear any difference on my outputs @ 48 or 96Khz into my 48Khz limited DAC TBH. In real terms anyway Ru it does not matter what you have it set to as long as you are not set to 48Khz when trying to output a 96Khz signal, the digital output can only go as high as the material being spun in the transport so @ 96Khz limit a CD will only go as high as 44.1Khz, DVD Video material will only go as high as 48Khz or 96Khz (DAD 24/96), Im not sure what DVD Audios PCM output is when processing a 5.1 Surround mix @ 24/96 for all channels ie Im not sure it can send a downmixed 24/96 PCM signal via its digital output (I asked about this on the forum before and did not get any response from any DVD Audio owners who could try it) I will post again on the DVD forum and see if any replys come in.

    I have my PCM out set at 96Khz all the time purely because I used to listen to DAD 24/96 material which was sent to in 24/96 PCM resolution to my old MF 24/96 DAC. I am a firm believer though purely on technical specification terms that any DVD player should be 24/96 capable these days, Both the NSV900 & 656A are : as are all Pioneer players BTW. One thing to consider is that in future 24/96 PCM rates may become available from DVD Audio discs that can be played back on a standard DVD V or Audio players SPDIF output (or downmixed 24/96 PCM as mentioned earlier), sending these signals to a DAC like the A3.24 would be benefitial in processing terms.
     
  9. rulocal

    rulocal
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    1,144
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +45
    Thanks very much, I actually went for the DVPNS905.

    Based on your information I shall set the DVD player output at 96KhZ/24 Bit and the DAC sampling rate the same and use these settings as my starting point for comparing.

    Thanks again
     

Share This Page

Loading...