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Budget 51" screen

deblee

Established Member
Okay so the 46" ST30 is probably going back (fan noise & also black level isn't what I wanted) but cannot find a decent alternative in the same/similar price range with the specs etc
So I was thinking of going for a budget model instead
Seen this Samsung PS51D495 | 51 inch 3D Plasma TV HD Ready Freeview HD | Richer Sounds just wondering if anyone has one, know anything about it?
Its only HD ready but I sit about 10 feet away and after having 3d I really want this sort of size screen (46" to 51")
Similar models in the US get good reviews but I'm hesitant after reading reviews cos the ST30 was not at all what I expected after reading them
Not one mentions fan noise :mad:
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
Okay so the 46" ST30 is probably going back (fan noise & also black level isn't what I wanted) but cannot find a decent alternative in the same/similar price range with the specs etc
So I was thinking of going for a budget model instead
Seen this Samsung PS51D495 | 51 inch 3D Plasma TV HD Ready Freeview HD | Richer Sounds just wondering if anyone has one, know anything about it?
Its only HD ready but I sit about 10 feet away and after having 3d I really want this sort of size screen (46" to 51")
Similar models in the US get good reviews but I'm hesitant after reading reviews cos the ST30 was not at all what I expected after reading them
Not one mentions fan noise :mad:

I never had an issue with the fans on my pannys.
How about the Sammy PS51D6900, Its a cracking set especially if you can find a good deal and i fully reccommend it :smashin:
 

deblee

Established Member
I never had an issue with the fans on my pannys.
How about the Sammy PS51D6900, Its a cracking set especially if you can find a good deal and i fully reccommend it :smashin:
Thanks that does look good but slightly over what I wanted to pay
I got the 46" ST30 for around £700 so that is my maximum budget tbh
 

deblee

Established Member
thanks although I do like LG (have one in the other room) after having a Panny I would prefer a decent black level and tbh only Samsung and Panasonic provide this atm
 

Tatkovladko

Established Member
If you had an issue with the black levels, then you're up to a much bigger disappointment with PS51D4 - the blacks are brown, unless viewed in total darkness. Also, the glass front will blow your mind.
This is a terrible downgrade, IMHO.
 

deblee

Established Member
If you had an issue with the black levels, then you're up to a much bigger disappointment with PS51D4 - the blacks are brown, unless viewed in total darkness. Also, the glass front will blow your mind.
This is a terrible downgrade, IMHO.
Really :eek:I assumed the 0.03 cd/m2 readings being spouted about the 4 series would mean similar base mll to the panasonics?
I really prefer to view in a dark environment anyway (I only have led backlighting on behind the TV) so something without an A/R filter is not a problem
May have to reconsider now:rolleyes:
 

deblee

Established Member

QuestShield

Distinguished Member
Had the 46" version so I can safely assume similar performance however quite a difference in price Buy Panasonic Viera TX-P50ST30 Plasma 3D TV, 50", Freeview HD with Two FREE Medium 3D Glasses online at JohnLewis.com whereas the price I paid for the 46" was £700 from JL with 5 year warranty, 2 sets of glasses and free delivery, missus will not let me move budget hence £700 max

Find something out on the missus whereby she spends too much money. Taxi fares. Jewellry. Shoes. Use the knowledge to get the TV. Trust me. Mwuhuahahaha.
 

Tatkovladko

Established Member
Really :eek:I assumed the 0.03 cd/m2 readings being spouted about the 4 series would mean similar base mll to the panasonics?
You should understand that you are not a suction cup stuck to the panel.

A suction cup stuck to the panel prevents any light coming from the ambience to its sensor whatsoever. Hence the ultra-low results. For any normal viewer any speckle of light will be reflected by the panel and back into the eyes. And I'm not talking about the filter or lack thereof. The panel is not a black hole, it will inevitably reflect light.
You should go see the said Samsung at a store, there's no better way to convince you.
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
You should understand that you are not a suction cup stuck to the panel.

A suction cup stuck to the panel prevents any light coming from the ambience to its sensor whatsoever. Hence the ultra-low results. For any normal viewer any speckle of light will be reflected by the panel and back into the eyes. And I'm not talking about the filter or lack thereof. The panel is not a black hole, it will inevitably reflect light.
You should go see the said Samsung at a store, there's no better way to convince you.
MLL readings are normally taken in a light controlled enviroment, so readings of 0.03 will be the min the tv reaches in a dark room.
Try and take reading in a light room and they will be higher.

See any plasma in stores and they will not look as expected by results posted. Store lighting makes plasmas look washed out. Even the awesome VT30 suffers though with its filter it does help combat things a bit, same with the D8000 Samsung plasma.
 

Tatkovladko

Established Member
Even in store conditions (have seen them in multiple stores) ST30, G30, VT30 never look washed out but rather deep and very convincingly black. I'd rather trust my eyes than a sensor for black level measurement.
Same with matte vs gloss screens. One can measure all day long the same results for black level with a sensor, but once you put them in normal room conditions (i.e. not black room), the glossy inevitably look blacker than matte due to matte making a smeared blob out of the reflected light.
 

leedebs

Prominent Member
BUT in a dim/dark room where most of my viewing & I assume a lot of posters on here use their TV's (as this a forum for av enthusiasts) the filter makes little or no difference at all, switch off all the lights and the lowest mll is what I need, obviously with decent contrast as well
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
Even in store conditions (have seen them in multiple stores) ST30, G30, VT30 never look washed out but rather deep and very convincingly black. I'd rather trust my eyes than a sensor for black level measurement.
Same with matte vs gloss screens. One can measure all day long the same results for black level with a sensor, but once you put them in normal room conditions (i.e. not black room), the glossy inevitably look blacker than matte due to matte making a smeared blob out of the reflected light.
Ive seen them many times too as I have a Panasonic store on my door step ;)
I trust my eyes too, at night there is a difference between MLL and it shows.

BUT in a dim/dark room where most of my viewing & I assume a lot of posters on here use their TV's (as this a forum for av enthusiasts) the filter makes little or no difference at all, switch off all the lights and the lowest mll is what I need, obviously with decent contrast as well
Even in the dark the coating helps keep the blacks blacker.
For example take the ST30 it has the same G14 panel as the VT30 but the VT30 has deeper blacks even in a blacked out room BUT as a counter effect of the filter the light out put is much lower on the VT than the ST. :)
 

Tatkovladko

Established Member
After reading the reviews online I was preparing to get a D450 myself since this is an outstandingly cheap deal - it costs about 550 EUR here and nothing can touch it price wise. Then I went to see it in person, resolution didn't bother me, provided I kept a safe distance of 3 meters. But blacks... I can't call brown "black". Maybe if I watched in total darkness I would. Similar to the cheaper Panasonic series, I can't call their gray "black". Even if they had absolute zero MLL, it still wouldn't be worth anything. I just don't watch TV in total darkness.
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
Do you think there maybe a greyscale issue creating brown blacks?
With my LG I found blacks had a tint of blue, once calibrated they were black...well grey as it was an LG but it look a thousand times better. ;)
 

deblee

Established Member
After reading the reviews online I was preparing to get a D450 myself since this is an outstandingly cheap deal - it costs about 550 EUR here and nothing can touch it price wise. Then I went to see it in person, resolution didn't bother me, provided I kept a safe distance of 3 meters. But blacks... I can't call brown "black". Maybe if I watched in total darkness I would. Similar to the cheaper Panasonic series, I can't call their gray "black". Even if they had absolute zero MLL, it still wouldn't be worth anything. I just don't watch TV in total darkness.

Very wrong mate, I had a UT30 which in the shop looked grey when any blacks were shown on screen but at home its really another story.
Even with some ambient light in the room the blacks are very black
IMO the black level on the UT30 is slightly lower than the ST30, the filter on the ST30 improves the black level when light is coming in from above (normal room lighting) but makes absolutely no difference when you have ambient lighting behind the TV like I do and no other lights on in the room.
In fact the filter seems to make the blacks slightly blue (agree with Insanity202 in this regard, maybe the greyscale needs adjusting) however without any user adjustments to get the greyscale correct on the ST30 I have no way of avoiding this.
The other thing is none of us watch in total darkness anyway as then you can see that NO plasma can produce true total black:(
 

deblee

Established Member
Ive seen them many times too as I have a Panasonic store on my door step ;)
I trust my eyes too, at night there is a difference between MLL and it shows.


Even in the dark the coating helps keep the blacks blacker.
For example take the ST30 it has the same G14 panel as the VT30 but the VT30 has deeper blacks even in a blacked out room BUT as a counter effect of the filter the light out put is much lower on the VT than the ST. :)

Did you find the VT30 had a blue tint to the blacks?
Do you find the D8000 has better "whites" (another bugbear with my ST30)
Do you find the blacks (in a dim/dark room) "noticeably" worse or does some form of backlighting negate the issue?
Coming from an LG myself I have found that although dark content is definitely not as good on the LG during scenes when there is almost all black content or a black screen the difference is negligible (this is using backlighting behind the TV)
 

1080 jawbreaker

Prominent Member
PS51D495 - 489 quid from a multiple places, adverts in the national papers, optional bluray player and 2 movies for an extra 50 quid
 

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