Broken Britain.... is this country too soft??

Should the UK bring back Capital Punishment

  • Yes

    Votes: 62 59.0%
  • No

    Votes: 43 41.0%

  • Total voters
    105

mistry

Active Member
as per title, and a continuation from another thread, has this country gone too soft...

some of my views may seem radical, but i only have such views due to the times we live in...i posted this comment and some fellow members did not share my view (whilst i may not agree with them, i respect that they have their own opinion) after reading about another story of broken britain...

one of the reason's why this country is in such a :censored: up state is because there is no real punishment dished out by so-called judges and the goverenment really don't give 2 :censored: about us poeple as long as they get their tax money to waste on stupid EU regulations, etc, etc...

when someone gets sent to prison for 5 years, it should be 5 years, forget probation or good behaviour, you done the crime so you should do the time..END OF!!!

i for one wish i could run this country for one term, as soon as i get in power i would:

- detach outselves from the stupid EU regulation of human rights, this law has led to the victim being treated as the criminal in many circumstances rather than the other way round
- bring in a 3 strikes rule, that'll soon reduce most repeat offenders (3rd strike and you become a lifer...regardless of the crimes committed)
- enforce national service on all youth offenders - the only way these chavs on our streets will learn to respect others is to make them a property of the state, take their civil liberties away from them and install discipline in them whilst they also learn life skills....or maybe this should just be compulsory...!!
- with the mass unemployment out there, enlist them to do council work such as cleaning the streets and so-on....if they receive benefits, they should still earn it..!!! (this in turn should also reduce costs of local authority to get these jobs done...which in the long run should reduce countil tax too)
- i would also bring back capital punishment, that'll soon free up some space in the overcrowded prisons full of murderers and rapists...

now, some ideas of punishement that i really think would reduce crime in this country:
- if caught stealing more than once, chop of the hand that stole...they won't steal again
- if a rapist is convicted with over-whelming evidence against them...chop of their "weapon" that has done the damage - they sure won't be able to rape again!!!
- if convicted of murder (again, only with over-whelming evidence) then they should die in exactly the same way in which their victim had suffered

in the case of the article mentioned below, if that guy was to be caught, rather than send him to prison, just snap his neck and be done with that waste of space...there's no room in life for scum like that!!!

basically, i would bring in zero-tolerence, and i mean zero!!!

i may not be the most popular prime-minister, but i sure will sort out these social problems which the government just don't know how to deal with as they no longer live in the real world...!!!

now....who's gonne vote for me:devil:

whilst some of the punishments seem extreme, i still believe this would be the best way to deter from crime in the current climate that we find ourselves in...

i remember when i was younger, i was no angel but i never ever harmed anyone and was scared of the police and the punishments dealt out for committing a crime...
in today's world, people aren't scared of the consequences of their actions as they know they will only get a slap on the wrists, a suspended sentence, a 5 year sentence where you could be out after 2 years on probation, etc, etc..
this actually encourages bad behaviour...!!!

what do the forum members think, do we need harsher punishments or are we just hyping up "broken britain" and the problems are not as big as we / the media make out to be???
 
I agree - But we are too liberal and it would never happen.

Got more chance of Sharia Law taking over...
 

Ambient Fish

Active Member
I agree Count Draco:D
 

johnny-17

Active Member
We are lazy when it comes to being tough on bad people and bad habits.
It's a lot easier to 'talk' to naughty children and naughty criminals than it is to adopt a 'hard' approach.
It's downhill all the way from school onwards these days.
The best we can come up with nowadays is the 'naughty step' !!!!!
We get what we deserve.
 

Bill Hicks

Banned
I agree, this country is way too soft on crime.
30 years of liberal theory made practice, an old out of touch judiciary combined with euro led human rights has resulted in this countries spiralling crime levels!
How about installing treadmills in our prisons that will supply some if not all their power.
I can't see nothing wrong with prisoners having to spend 8 hrs a day sweating away on it.
Or is that against their human rights?

:confused:
 

PJTX100

Distinguished Member
I do think this country is too soft. Though I don't agree with all your points, I do agree with many of them.

You'll probably stimulate yet another debate, with comments such as your opinions being right-wing and what happens if an innocent person is wrongly punished? I agree that this would be a tragedy, but no worse than the daily tragedy of innocent victims of serious crime where the perpertrators laugh at authority which is more concerned with the human rights and welfare of criminals rather than victims.
 

Greg Hook

Moderator & Reviewer
You only have to watch some of these Police Chase and similar programs that are on TV. Scum steal a car, have a long chase through streets and towns, endagering lives, end up crashing the car and leg it. Caught by police but only get a suspended sentance or community service, or some other new age crap.

There is a danger of getting too right wing over this, but I do agree we are far too soft on crime in this country.

I think the real problem stems from parents who just don't care what their kids are doing and where they are.
 
We are making the assumption that it's the punishment that deters the crime ?

I have yet to be convinced that the punishment does in fact make that much of a difference to crime rates when compared to the following:

Detection rates - the actual chance to be caught.
Society and peer perception - how you feel others will react to criminal activities. (linked to the following)
Respect for authority - how you percieve the government, the police and society as a whole.
 

emporer

Banned
far too soft, example i heard last week was some scum admitting murder of a baby and gets life, only to be told he has to serve at least 11 years, 11 years is a disgrace.
 

andykn

Well-known Member
Where to begin?

1/ Our "Human Rights" stem from the European Convention on Human Rights signed by the UK in the 50s. Nothing to do with our membership of the EU. Which human rights specifically would you like to see abolished?

2/ Capital Punishment does not clear out prisons or prevent crime in any way - look at any comparable country with Capital Punishment like the US.

3/ 3 strikes - see above

4/ Parole/Probation. Would you want to be a prison officer in a system where ther is no incentive to Behave? By all means argue for longer sentences, but present some evidence that our tax dollars are well spent locking people up. I'd rather my taxes went to, say, pensioners heating allowance, rather than locking people up for no benefit.

5/ Surely having a further standard of proof, "overwhelming evidence", in addition to the current "beyond reasonable doubt" does not help restore faith in the justice system?

Can we have some ideas that can be shown to reduce crime rather than just put our taxes up and keep Daily Mail readers happy?
 

Ian J

Banned
- enforce national service on all youth offenders - the only way these chavs on our streets will learn to respect others is to make them a property of the state, take their civil liberties away from them and install discipline in them whilst they also learn life skills....or maybe this should just be compulsory...!!

Team spirit and trust in ones comrades is very important in the forces so how do you think they would feel if they were sent into a warzone alongside these conscripts of yours.
 

Mep

Well-known Member
What aspect of the subsequent process is the factor that deters offence if it's not the punishment?

quite! and since criminals seem to have no consideration for how society perceives them and no respect for authority because the authorities do not mete out appropriate punishment I'm not sure what the alternative is.........except that this is what we already have!
 

andykn

Well-known Member
What aspect of the subsequent process is the factor that deters offence if it's not the punishment?

You could ask the people in the US on death row, didn't deter them.

I've heard that it is mostly fear of detection that is the deterrent. The idea is that people commit crime because they don't think they'll be caught, not because they're happy to do the time.
 

Mep

Well-known Member
Where to begin?

1/ Our "Human Rights" stem from the European Convention on Human Rights signed by the UK in the 50s. Nothing to do with our membership of the EU. Which human rights specifically would you like to see abolished?

2/ Capital Punishment does not clear out prisons or prevent crime in any way - look at any comparable country with Capital Punishment like the US.

3/ 3 strikes - see above

4/ Parole/Probation. Would you want to be a prison officer in a system where ther is no incentive to Behave? By all means argue for longer sentences, but present some evidence that our tax dollars are well spent locking people up. I'd rather my taxes went to, say, pensioners heating allowance, rather than locking people up for no benefit.

5/ Surely having a further standard of proof, "overwhelming evidence", in addition to the current "beyond reasonable doubt" does not help restore faith in the justice system?

Can we have some ideas that can be shown to reduce crime rather than just put our taxes up and keep Daily Mail readers happy?

Seem like reasonable observations to me, but having taken a counter position to the OP what ideas do you have to reduce crime?
 
What aspect of the subsequent process is the factor that deters offence if it's not the punishment?

why do you personally not commit murder or steal ?

Funnily enough, regardless of what the punishment would be my own feelings of right and wrong, and the fear of what others like family and friends would think of me.
 

Mep

Well-known Member
You could ask the people in the US on death row, didn't deter them.

I've heard that it is mostly fear of detection that is the deterrent. The idea is that people commit crime because they don't think they'll be caught, not because they're happy to do the time.

"I've heard" that many criminals are not scared of doing the time because A) sentences are lenient and B) It is part of the job, i.e. an acceptable risk but I wonder if this would be the case if sentencing was more appropriate.
 

Mep

Well-known Member
why do you personally not commit murder or steal ?

Funnily enough, regardless of what the punishment would be my own feelings of right and wrong, and the fear of what others like family and friends would think of me.

But you clearly have a different moral compass to the criminal fraternity so it's not a like for like comparison.
 

PJTX100

Distinguished Member
You could ask the people in the US on death row, didn't deter them.

So we keep a system where a person who for example takes a car illegally, puts other lives at risk, damages property etc etc gets a stern talking to, or at worst is ordered to pick some litter up in a park which they ignore anyway?

Of course people don't like being caught. But they sure as hell would like it even less if they knew there was a prospect of their punishment fitting their crime.
 
But you clearly have a different moral compass to the criminal fraternity so it's not a like for like comparison.

Then work out why we are different - hence my origninal comments.

We have the same biology - do we really think that thieves and criminals are born that way ?
 

domtheone

Distinguished Member
We are making the assumption that it's the punishment that deters the crime ?

I have yet to be convinced that the punishment does in fact make that much of a difference to crime rates when compared to the following:

Personally I think it would make a difference, especially over time.

I wonder what the crime rates, per capita etc etc are in other countries where the pnuishment for crimes is substantially different to ours..
 

Mep

Well-known Member
Then work out why we are different - hence my origninal comments.

We have the same biology - do we really think that thieves and criminals are born that way ?

More often than not they are born into an environment where crime is the norm. I'm not suggesting that we don't also attack the reasons for crime (nor too stupid to realise they exist).
 
So we keep a system where a person who for example takes a car illegally, puts other lives at risk, damages property etc etc gets a stern talking to, or at worst is ordered to pick some litter up in a park which they ignore anyway?

Of course people don't like being caught. But they sure as hell would like it even less if they knew there was a prospect of their punishment fitting their crime.

As I said earlier - I would not kill someone or steal ... however, I have done things that carry a higher sentence than stealing a car.
The punishment did not stop me. It was the likely hood of being caught, and my perception of the act vs' others perception and harm.
 
More often than not they are born into an environment where crime is the norm. I'm not suggesting that we don't also attack the reasons for crime (nor too stupid to realise they exist).

Agreed - I was trying to make the point that I believe from the evidence at hand, that the environment and it's conditioning is far more of a factor on crimes than that of deterence in terms of punishment.
 

Mep

Well-known Member
As I said earlier - I would not kill someone or steal ... however, I have done things that carry a higher sentence than stealing a car.
The punishment did not stop me. It was the likely hood of being caught, and my perception of the act vs' others perception and harm.

Sounds contradictory.....or do you mean that these perceptions only eventually stopped you?
 

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