British Steel

Discussion in 'Brexit Forum' started by DJ59, May 22, 2019.

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  1. DJ59

    DJ59
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    Happy Brexit in North Lincolnshire! Hope you are all pleased with the slow death of British Steel caused by Brexit. First of many industries to decline when we leave the EU. Glad I’m retired and can watch the sorry mess from the sidelines as of course many similar people who voted for Brexit but won’t be affected. Notice that Farage was hightailing to the US after the Brexit was planned to happen. Safely out of the way of the mess to come. But came back to try to make sure it goes ahead, bet he will off to the States.
    thereafter. I spent 30 years exporting so know what this deal means.
     
  2. domtheone

    domtheone
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    Caused by Brexit :confused:

    Ironic that if we'd have left the EU, the government might have been able to do more..
     
  3. Toko Black

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    Ironic that it was the UK Government that veto'd attempting to protect the British Steel industry when the EU tried to protect it from China's subsidised Steel exports and increased import tarriffs on UK steel.

    ... and it doesn't matter how many times this gets pointed out, guaranteed that anti-EU supporters will trot it again and again.
     
  4. domtheone

    domtheone
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    Yes that as well.

    Not to mention that British Steels owner has a track record of buying out companies, only for them to then go down the swanny...
     
  5. mikeybabes2

    mikeybabes2
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    Interesting Article Here
     
  6. Sonic67

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    In the EU you can't fund industries.

    What are the EU rules about state aid?
     
  7. Rasczak

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    British Steel wouldn't have needed any State Aid whatsoever had Brexit not dried up the order book in the first place.
     
  8. Sonic67

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    And British steel can't be bailed out thanks to the EU not allowing bail outs, isn't "British" it's a private country, Indian owned and in a market of cheap Chinese steel.

    It's telling that previously your answer was that the UK should ignore the EU's own rules. Even you don't agree with them.
     
  9. blackrod

    blackrod
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    I was under the impression that the EU wanted to support the european steel industry against cheap chinese imports but the UK was one of those against such moves?
    It also seems our government shafted them with a fudged deal with the EU regarding carbon payments.
    Then of course, Greybull has a spectacular record of making money out of companies going to the wall but that isn't to say this case is the same.
     
  10. Rasczak

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    My answer on British Steel is that they wouldn't need any kind of bail out if their European customers hadn't fled because they feared tariffs.
     
  11. Cliff

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    It is a terrible blow for the workforce in that area. I really feel sorry for anyone who loses their job and is unlikely to find another using the same skills.
    However... It is simply down to market forces. Imported steel is cheaper. We cannot subsidise an industry forever, just to keep people employed. Its a cruel fact.
     
  12. Sonic67

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    1. Thanks to the EU you can't fund state industries.
    2. China is flooding the market with cheap seel.
    3. It's a private industry. Should taxpayers money be bailing out a company and its shareholders?
    4. Your view is we should ignore the EU laws. Even you don't agree with them.
     
  13. Rasczak

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    1. Don't need to if we have stable trading environments where potential customers don't have to worry about tariffs.
    2. The UK voted against restrictions on this.
    3. Same as 1.
    4. This is not my current view.
     
  14. weaviemx5

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    Which one is it, 1 or 3?

    If it’s state owned, EU regulations are against it, but it’s clearly been done by other member states, and the Government have recently been discussing loans to British Steel to meet its carbon credits payments. If it’s 3, that negates point 1?

    Edit - Isn’t a £100m loan from the UK taxpayer proof of the UK Government funding them? (Either options 1 or 3)

    Redirect Notice

    “n April, the firm was forced to borrow £100m from the government to pay an EU carbon bill, so it could avoid a steep fine.”
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  15. Sonic67

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    You are saying we should follow EU laws and not fund state industry?
     
  16. Rasczak

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    I thought British Steel was in private ownership (Greybull) when it went insolvent?
     
  17. weaviemx5

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    It’s not a state industry, the Private Equity form who bought it from Tata rebranded it as British Steel.
     
  18. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    It's a private business. Should we bail out a private business with taxpayer's money?

    Or we could nationalise it.

    Bailing it out is then against EU laws.
    A loan is a loan. It will be paid back so ok providing it is.
     
  19. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    Exactly. So should government money bail out private industry? And if nationalised you fall foul of the EU and bailing out industry.
     
  20. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    So if in private ownership how is that an issue for the government?
     
  21. weaviemx5

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    Ok, so it’s point 3 then and a question of whether the UK Government should bailout private industry. The owners of British steel have blamed Brexit ‘uncertainty’ along with the value of the point since the Referendum. Are the Government to blame and at the same time trying to save 20k UK jobs (direct and indirect)?
     
  22. Rasczak

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    We wouldn't have had to do anything but for Brexit drying up the order book.
     
  23. Sonic67

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    And?
    Are they?
     
  24. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    And the EU means we can't save our own UK businesses. I thought we didn't give up sovereignty?
     
  25. weaviemx5

    weaviemx5
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    It was a question. The Government/Parliament is blamed every day for delaying Brexit and causing uncertainty. The 20k affected Uk workers are the innocent collateral damage, so maybe the Government are trying to do what’s best for them?

    There’s no way that a Conservative Government will privatise the second largest Steel producer. Labour would have a field day!
     
  26. weaviemx5

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    It’s a privately owned business, so currently nothing to do with the EU.
     
  27. Sonic67

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    Fine. And nothing to do with the government as well.
     
  28. weaviemx5

    weaviemx5
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    Until 20k people lose their jobs as a result, and that’s 20k more people potentially claiming welfare and, more importantly to the Government, not voting for them.
     
  29. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    The conservative view is that unprofitable businesses go under. The conservative government will fund re training etc but not bail out unprofitable businesses.

    So if your coal mine collapses, tough crap, but you can train for IT etc.
     
  30. weaviemx5

    weaviemx5
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    Good plan, so long as the IT industry doesn’t outsource the roles you’ve spent money retraining on to India/Philippines/Malaysia.
     

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