Britain: 'More Thatcherite than ever'

dalethecaptain

Active Member
It must be true if its on the BBC:

Britons less willing to pay for taxes to help others

The report mentions that people might feel more self reliant and more that the state is unlikely to support them, a bit of individualism and self reliance is never a bad thing.

Demonstrating the usual lack of subjectivity, the BBC has managed to spin the 'we are not paying for schools and hospitals' line which it actually says nowhere in the report, which is here:

28th Annual Social Attitudes Report.

The BBC is supposed to be impartial, but this once again is being mutated into something it is quite simply not in an attempt to stir up fake hatred opposition, a la BNP. Another refusal to accept the side effects of having Big Government.
 

dalethecaptain

Active Member
Its more about peoples attitudes towards politics and what successive governments have done to the populations ability to reason and think as individuals since the 1970's.

Says a lot about my generation when 53% could not even be bothered to vote at the last election.
 

Wild Weasel

Well-known Member
Doesn't matter who you vote for, the EU still gets in.
 

MikeTV

Well-known Member
Demonstrating the usual lack of subjectivity, the BBC has managed to spin the 'we are not paying for schools and hospitals' line which it actually says nowhere in the report
You are wrong. On Page 28, Chapter 2, it clearly shows that most people do not support extra spending on health and education.
this once again is being mutated into something it is quite simply not in an attempt to stir up fake hatred opposition, a la BNP.
Wow! That's quite a stretch. The BBC accurately reports what is in the report, and so you compare them to a race hate group. Madness.

:suicide:
 

dalethecaptain

Active Member
You are wrong. On Page 28, Chapter 2, it clearly shows that most people do not support extra spending on health and education.
To the contrary, the report states the questions people were asked, which as far as I am concerned are unduly loaded, and then presents the data as a Graph. Using demographics to represent the data is wholly misleading. The data is given as a graph, which I have added.

Wow! That's quite a stretch. The BBC accurately reports what is in the report, and so you compare them to a race hate group. Madness.
:suicide:
Again, to the contrary, you have just demonstrated what the BBC is becoming increasingly apt at doing, that is taking statements that have some substance, and cherry picking the detail out of context, therefore turning them into incendiary comments to fit a political agenda. My largest problem is a so called unbiased news agency should not be reporting that 'we are more Thatcherite'. without more than a think tanks report.

The BNP pick up on things like 'its the migrants what made the country awful' for one single purpose, to incite hatred. Whist immigrants might have added to overcrowding, there is no proof for the latter comments. Whats the difference between what the BBC, John Prescott, and other socialist union tub thumpers are doing? The tories have an agenda but they are doing it a little smarter than outright manipulation of the truth, until they get caught of course.
 

Attachments

dazza74

Novice Member
The average person doesn't sit and think what they cost the state before answering that question imo. Doesn't sit to consider they might need the NHS one day. Just complains about the cost of petrol, cigarettes and booze.
 

MikeTV

Well-known Member
Quite so. The public view labour (with some justification) as the party of "spend, spend, spend" and the tories as the party of "cut, cut, cut". So during economic hard times, we move to the right, and in times of plenty, to the left. This is quite good, in a way. It curtails the excesses of both parties. But it would be more prudent and less painful to look long term, and adopt a more moderate strategy, smoothing the cyclical bumps. But nobody will get elected on that platform.
 

GAZBEROTTEN

Well-known Member
If you want the coalition to be out of power before the 5 years just start various petitions and give the press there direct links. Im sure enough people will sign them and have the coalition voted out before the 5 years.
 

tapzilla2k

Distinguished Member
It would be great if the Politicians were upfront about what we can afford and what we can't afford to do, simple as that. If taxpayers are not willing to pay for it, Politicians of both main parties should not spend money we haven't got. Then we can all bask in the glory of decaying infrastructure.
 

sidicks

Banned
If you want the coalition to be out of power before the 5 years just start various petitions and give the press there direct links. Im sure enough people will sign them and have the coalition voted out before the 5 years.
One minute you ar|e blaming Labour for the debt, then you are claiming there can't be any debt :)laugh:) then then are saying there should be lower benefits, then you are blaming the 'Tories' for the riots...

Now you are blaming the Coalition again....

What do you think the current government should be doing?
:confused:
Sidicks
 

gibbsy

Moderator
What do you think the current government should be doing?
:confused:
Sidicks
Resigning.:D

This government is making Maggie Thatcher look like Keir Hardie. Demonise one section of society and blame all the current problems on them. The bigger the lie the more likely people are to swallow it. Worked for a certain German politcal party.
 
D

Deleted member 13294

Guest
So now the coalition are comparable to the Nazis?

I've heard it all now.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
So now the coalition are comparable to the Nazis?

I've heard it all now.
http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/fraud/types-of-fraud/benefit-fraud/benefit-fraud

Take a look at this poster on the bottom of the linked page, it has one simple message. ''If your on benefits, you are probably cheating the system.'' A recent article and report shows clearly that British people are less tolerant of the poor and are quite happy to blame that section of the population for almost all the countries ills.
 
D

dovercat

Guest
The government describe people as workshy and fit for work wrongly claiming disability and misleads the public over the level of fraud

Total Incapacity Benefit claimant figures were portrayed as spiraling up when they were actually falling.

The government also misrepresent figures on the number of claimants and rise in claimants on the grounds of things like mental health etc... implying they have massively increased and so highly suspect not genuine. When the figures for example on mental health have not increased, the figures for physical illness/disabilities have decreased, the increase in mental health claimants is as a percentage of claimants.

It is implied that people assessed as not eligible for a benefit or not eligible to continuing receiving a benefit when it is reassessed were defrauding the system, when no fraud has been committed.

The tabloid headlines depict the disabled as fraudsters and workshy.

The government rhetoric and tabloid rhetoric of people being workshy and the focus on the cost of supporting these people is similar to Germany in the 1930s where the label of workshy was attached to the disabled and they were portrayed as a burden on society that was unaffordable. Taking money out of the pockets of hard working decent families.

Go compare German news papers in the 1930's to todays tabloids. Go compare Nazi posters with todays government rhetoric. Then say you can not compare the government and media to Nazi Germany. They have been scapegoating the most vulnrable section of our society, and if the surveys on public opinion and rising number of hate crimes against the disabled are anything to go by it is changing public perception.

I do not think the government is going to directly kill the ill/disabled. But a rise in suicides and deaths where poverty and stress are contributing factors, are viewed as a price worth paying by the Coalition. The disabled are no longer being viewed as having equal worth and entitled to a decent standard of living, they are being viewed as a burden deserving of only minimal conditional support akin to workshy or criminals.
 
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la gran siete

Distinguished Member
The poor, the dispossessed and the disenfranchised are always the easiest to scapegoat for the ills of society .Whilst no one wants to endorse benefit cheating, we must bear in mind that people who live on it are now enduring increased hardships, so much so they are relying on charities to provide then with essentials, like food.Frankly if a few decide to pocket a few quid from some moonlighting job, I couldnt possibly blame them.The problem as i see it is we have become increasingly selfish and have lost whatever values we once might have had
 

sidicks

Banned
http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/fraud/types-of-fraud/benefit-fraud/benefit-fraud

Take a look at this poster on the bottom of the linked page, it has one simple message. ''If your on benefits, you are probably cheating the system.'' A recent article and report shows clearly that British people are less tolerant of the poor and are quite happy to blame that section of the population for almost all the countries ills.

Very strange - Unless the poster has changed since you posted the link, the message is quite clearly about benefit fraud - keep the government informed if your circumstances change.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
:confused:
Sidicks
 
D

dovercat

Guest
These days those on benefits seem to be portrayed as a separate subhuman species of feral animals. Subjects of ridicule, scorn and fear. Benefit claimants, the workshy, the maliginering, defrauding the welfare system, criminal burglar to mugger to looter, seem to be viewed as all one and the same.
We seem to be returning to an age of deserving working poor and undeserving workshy poor. A something for something society with responsibilities as well as rights, where those unable to provide something fulfill their responsibilities by being in paid employment are viewed as not part of society and undeserving
 
D

dovercat

Guest
Very strange - Unless the poster has changed since you posted the link, the message is quite clearly about benefit fraud - keep the government informed if your circumstances change.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
:confused:
Sidicks
The simpler version of the poster just reads
WEL UN FARE
DON'T LET BENEFIT FRAUD MAKE YOU MAD.

Can you imagine a similar poster of enraged people
with the tagline
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
DON'T LET ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION MAKE YOU MAD

Do you think a poster directing rage at illegal immigrants and calling for action, would make legal immigrants feel welcomed members of society.

Since the general public already appear to believe a vastly higher percentage of benefit claimants are committing fraud than actually are. Maybe a poster highlighting the actual fraud rates of the various benefits with the tag lines almost all benefit claimants are genuine, benefit claimants are not criminals they are your neighbors and friends.

Since unclaimed benefits and underpaid benefits and official error and claimant error are bigger than claimant fraud in cash terms. How about a poster encouraging people to claim benefits they are eligible for and encouraging people to check they are getting paid the correct amount of benefit.
Claim benefits it is your right, do not go without due to pride or ignorance. But please check you get what you are entilted to not too little or too much. Official error and claimant error a problem we share.
 
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sidicks

Banned
The simpler version of the poster just reads
WEL UN FARE
DON'T LET BENEFIT FRAUD MAKE YOU MAD.
Exactly! Does that say "If your (sic) on benefits, you are probably cheating the system.'' ??
:facepalm:
Sidicks
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Exactly! Does that say "If your (sic) on benefits, you are probably cheating the system.'' ??
:facepalm:
Sidicks
Just one paragraph from the Crimestoppers web site:

Crimestoppers’ Deputy Chief Executive Dave Cording said: “We are very glad to help stop benefit fraud in this national campaign, as part of our ongoing efforts to help fight crime together with the police and communities. Benefit fraud forces honest taxpayers to pay more, takes money away from those who genuinely need it, and exploits others’ honesty. Crimestoppers callers who pass on information about benefit fraud are driven by the unfairness they witness of those claiming benefits dishonestly whilst being healthy and capable of working.


If a sick or disabled persons puts a bag into their rubbish bin should they be reported for fraud and made to take a job for the local council on refuse collection. This will make genuine claimaints extremely worried about doing anything that may be construed as 'working'.
 
D

dovercat

Guest
Exactly! Does that say "If your (sic) on benefits, you are probably cheating the system.'' ??
:facepalm:
Sidicks
It makes it look like benefit fraud is a major pervasive crime, that the general public can spot and report. Informing on those benefit cheats.

How does the general public spot a benefit cheat?

They do not appear to go out to work and now have their boyfriend living with them, I bet they have not told the DWP I will inform them.

They do not appear to go out to work, and I have heard tell they are disabled. They look fine to me, I will inform the DWP.

They have been unemployed for a while but now have strated going out each day to work, bet they have not told the DWP, I will inform them.

They lived alone now have some else living at the address with them, bet they did not tell the Council Tax people.

They have moved out and new people have moved in. They may have been getting housing benefit and now may have sublet I will inform the DWP.


It is encouraging an atmosphere where benefit claimants feel they are viewed as criminals and people are spying on and trying to inform on them. What percentage of benefit fraud reports turn out to be baseless. Is the DWP going to have lots of good new leads or lots more interfering busy bodies and malicious people wrongly accusing people. I would stick money on the baseless claims.
 
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