Brexit Party 'Fastest growing Political Force'

Panavision

Active Member
1. We are already supposed to be out.
2. It's not down to them to negotiate an exit. They were left out of it.
3. The more they play up, the more the EU will want us out. This is exactly the way to do it.
So take the piss out of the people who are involved in negotiations. I suppose this is the way you conduct life in general?

The more Farage winds them up, the more they will play hardball. And Farage wonders why he isn't involved in negotiations. Even Boris wants nothing to do with the gadfly.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
Who specifically in the EU? The organisation is made up of thousands of people all of whom will have their own standpoint. If we are talking generally, I would suggest that many of those who work for the EU will be experienced politicians, diplomats or officials - all of whom will have extensive experience, tolerance and understanding that there will be differences of opinion.
Well this is odd. After your many years of attacking UKIP and TBP with your multiple threads started, you are finally accepting of them and their mandate.

I am honestly impressed.

Quite a change considering in March you didn't even want them given "oxygen" and thought we shouldn't be in the elections at all.

I think there is certainly some truth in the fact it is in the Government's interests that we do not partake in the 2019 EU elections. Whilst this sub-forum is leave heavy, for obvious reasons, it is likely the actual result would also be far right/Brexit parties are likely to do well in any actual election. It is clearly not a great idea to give such parties oxygen.
I would also suggest international politics is probably a little bit more mature than a primary school playground.
And domestic politics as you seem to relish the SNP being disruptive.

 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Quite a change considering in March you didn't even want them given "oxygen" and thought we shouldn't be in the elections at all.
I don't wish the Brexit Party to have oxygen but that is a completely different issue from the one I have raised. You have often quoted the 'disrupt and annoy' tactic of the Brexit Party. You now seem unwilling to actually articulate how you think it works.
 
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Sonic67

Distinguished Member
So take the piss out of the people who are involved in negotiations.
Just to check, are you on about the many insults so far from the EU?

Macron saying Brexiters are liars?

"Those who explain that we can easily live without Europe, that everything is going to be all right, and that it's going to bring a lot of money home, are liars. It's even more true since they left the day after so as to not have to deal with it,"

Juncker mocking May for Strong and Stable after two ministers resigned when her deal was revealed?

Guy: "Any Brexit deal requires a strong and stable understanding of the complex issues involved. The clock is ticking — it's time to get real,"

Tusk: posts a picture of himself offering May a cake, captions it: "A piece of cake, perhaps? Sorry, no cherries."

Or his "special place in hell" comment?
I suppose this is the way you conduct life in general?
I tend to stand up for myself when messed around by others. Don't you?
The more Farage winds them up, the more they will play hardball. And Farage wonders why he isn't involved in negotiations. Even Boris wants nothing to do with the gadfly.
We are here thanks to the EU. There was no problem when it was a common market. The "ever closer union" lead to the Lisbon Treaty, which lead to the rise of Ukip, which lead to Cameron offering a referendum, which lead to 17 million voting to leave, which lead to BRINO, which lead to TBP, which lead to Boris and "no deal."

Farage and is party is still there to stop the Conservatives reigning back on leaving. If you look at the polling Boris is picking up TBP support. He will lose it if he starts going back on leaving as May did.

The more Farage winds the EU up, the more they will see us as an obstacle to "ever closer union."

They don't like the home truths. Apparently the EU ended Nazism and communism.

 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
I don't wish the Brexit Party to have oxygen but that is a completely different issue from the one I have raised. You have often quoted the 'disrupt and annoy' tactic of the Brexit Party. You now seem unable or unwilling to actually articulate how you think it works.
You have missed the youtube videos posted of Farage in the EU Parliament? I really need to post more.


Farage giving it to the EU.


I note your "predictions" in that thread.

Macron etc have had enough.

The EU still see the UK still voting strongly for leave, three years on with no sight of a change in view.

The EU's own opening of parliament after the vote had the divide obvious with LibDems in T-shirts and TBP turning their backs on the EU anthem.


And you seem unable to link the SNP winding up Parliament, which you enjoyed, with UKIP/TBP winding up the EU.

Very strange.
 

Hampy1972

Well-known Member
Just to check, are you on about the many insults so far from the EU?

Macron saying Brexiters are liars?

"Those who explain that we can easily live without Europe, that everything is going to be all right, and that it's going to bring a lot of money home, are liars. It's even more true since they left the day after so as to not have to deal with it,"

Juncker mocking May for Strong and Stable after two ministers resigned when her deal was revealed?

Guy: "Any Brexit deal requires a strong and stable understanding of the complex issues involved. The clock is ticking — it's time to get real,"

Tusk: posts a picture of himself offering May a cake, captions it: "A piece of cake, perhaps? Sorry, no cherries."

Or his "special place in hell" comment?

I tend to stand up for myself when messed around by others. Don't you?

We are here thanks to the EU. There was no problem when it was a common market. The "ever closer union" lead to the Lisbon Treaty, which lead to the rise of Ukip, which lead to Cameron offering a referendum, which lead to 17 million voting to leave, which lead to BRINO, which lead to TBP, which lead to Boris and "no deal."

Farage and is party is still there to stop the Conservatives reigning back on leaving. If you look at the polling Boris is picking up TBP support. He will lose it if he starts going back on leaving as May did.

The more Farage winds the EU up, the more they will see us as an obstacle to "ever closer union."

They don't like the home truths. Apparently the EU ended Nazism and communism.

The only thing EU ended is freedom of democracy if it's not in line with their one sided policies.
On the subject of Nazism and Communism, EU nations were terribly weak after the end of the war and when it come to the trials. Estimated that over 300,000 high ranking Nazi officials escaped but only 3,500 ever received justice. 10 year prison sentences was not justice in my book. I salute the Israelis on this, they hunted down the scumbags across every nook and cranny....
 

Panavision

Active Member
Just to check, are you on about the many insults so far from the EU?
Let's consider them.

Macron saying Brexiters are liars?

"Those who explain that we can easily live without Europe, that everything is going to be all right, and that it's going to bring a lot of money home, are liars. It's even more true since they left the day after so as to not have to deal with it,"

Juncker mocking May for Strong and Stable after two ministers resigned when her deal was revealed?
He may have a point in the short term. I don't particularly like Macron, but he is correct that Brexit vote is built upon a lot of lies, most of which people don't really care about anyway.

Guy: "Any Brexit deal requires a strong and stable understanding of the complex issues involved. The clock is ticking — it's time to get real,"



How is that an insult? He's right, the UK had been dragging its heels at the time.

Tusk: posts a picture of himself offering May a cake, captions it: "A piece of cake, perhaps? Sorry, no cherries."

Or his "special place in hell" comment?
Why is that an insult? He's saying that May wants to cherrypick the EU. You are either in or out. You can't cherrypick what you want and expect the other party to undermine their own club to satisfy you.

I tend to stand up for myself when messed around by others. Don't you?
Yes, but doing so with a pragmatic view, not the emotional and Star Wars referencing way. I want out with a deal and an orderly exit.

We are here thanks to the EU. There was no problem when it was a common market. The "ever closer union" lead to the Lisbon Treaty, which lead to the rise of Ukip, which lead to Cameron offering a referendum, which lead to 17 million voting to leave, which lead to BRINO, which lead to TBP, which lead to Boris and "no deal."
We are here because our successive governments aligned themselves to the EU. They didn't listen to Thatcher.

Farage and is party is still there to stop the Conservatives reigning back on leaving. If you look at the polling Boris is picking up TBP support. He will lose it if he starts going back on leaving as May did.

The more Farage winds the EU up, the more they will see us as an obstacle to "ever closer union."

They don't like the home truths. Apparently the EU ended Nazism and communism.
Farage needs to calm down. He speaks for Great Britain, he should be showing how classy we are, instead he's acting like a tit.
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
Who specifically in the EU? The organisation is made up of thousands of people all of whom will have their own standpoint. If we are talking generally, I would suggest that many of those who work for the EU will be experienced politicians, diplomats or officials - all of whom will have extensive experience, tolerance and understanding that there will be differences of opinion. I would also suggest international politics is probably a little bit more mature than a primary school playground.
About 32,000 people are employed by the bloated bureaucratic organisation.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
You have missed the youtube videos posted of Farage in the EU Parliament? I really need to post more.


Farage giving it to the EU.

Sonic, bombastic speeches like that are aimed squarely at people like you. They have little to no impact on "the EU".
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
About 32,000 people are employed by the bloated bureaucratic organisation.
How about some context Alan?

The UK has in excess of 400,000 civil servants. When put against that, 32,000 people employed by the EU, seems trivial. Remember those individuals manage the world's largest trading bloc, run one of the world's most significant global currencies (which is also the second most widely held international reserve currency after the US dollar), ensure universal rights for its citizens, promote shared international values and maintain a EU wide law. Not bad for less officials than it takes to run Wales!
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
How about some context Alan?

The UK has in excess of 400,000 civil servants. When put against that, 32,000 people employed by the EU, seems trivial. Remember those individuals manage the world's largest trading bloc, run one of the world's most significant global currencies (which is also the second most widely held international reserve currency after the US dollar), ensure universal rights for its citizens, promote shared international values and maintain a EU wide law. Not bad for less officials than it takes to run Wales!
Only if context can be applied:

The European Commission has about 32,000 people.
The EU Diplomatic Service has nearly 3,500 staff.
The European Parliament has around 7,500 people.
The Council of the European Union has around 3,500 people.

...I'll stop there as there are many more people employed by the EU, both directly and indirectly.

It is silly to compare the UK civil service with the EU. Why did you not include the civil service figures for all the other countries in the EU?

The EU is an bureaucratic organisation, not an autonomous country.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Only if context can be applied:

The European Commission has about 32,000 people.
The EU Diplomatic Service has nearly 3,500 staff.
The European Parliament has around 7,500 people.
The Council of the European Union has around 3,500 people.

...I'll stop there as there are many more people employed by the EU, both directly and indirectly.

It is silly to compare the UK civil service with the EU. Why did you not include the civil service figures for all the other countries in the EU?

The EU is an bureaucratic organisation, not an autonomous country.
Google says circa-55,000 in total which is still significantly less than the UK. I am not sure why would you want me to "include the civil service figures for all the other countries in the EU" - how does their efficiency or inefficiency relate to the figures you quoted for the EU? Whichever way you cut it, the EU does an awful lot with not that many people in the grand scheme of things.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
Why is that an insult? He's saying that May wants to cherrypick the EU. You are either in or out. You can't cherrypick what you want and expect the other party to undermine their own club to satisfy you.
Exactly. I wanted to leave.
Yes, but doing so with a pragmatic view, not the emotional and Star Wars referencing way. I want out with a deal and an orderly exit.
Me too. And not referencing Marvel characters as well.
We are here because our successive governments aligned themselves to the EU. They didn't listen to Thatcher.
Yep, proEU governments.
Farage needs to calm down. He speaks for Great Britain, he should be showing how classy we are, instead he's acting like a tit.
He's doing what I voted him to do. We are in the EU under duress.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
The EU is an bureaucratic organisation, not an autonomous country.
Not everyone is convinced of that.

Antonio Tajani, "If you listen to the anthem of another country you rise to your feet.”
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
But it is the only thing that matters.

The voters are happy with how he conducts himself as their MEP.
As one of the other 70% or so who didn't vote for them, I'm not happy with how he conducts himself. They're all a disgrace in fact, and none of them represent me.

Thankfully I'm sure the rest of the EU are aware the majority aren't in fact happy with how they conduct themselves as MEP's.
 

mcbainne

Active Member
As one of the other 70% or so who didn't vote for them, I'm not happy with how he conducts himself. They're all a disgrace in fact, and none of them represent me.

Thankfully I'm sure the rest of the EU are aware the majority aren't in fact happy with how they conduct themselves as MEP's.
Pretty sure they see them as a large proportion of the world now see the UK, a laughing stock
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
Pretty sure they see them as a large proportion of the world now see the UK, a laughing stock
Pretty sure a large portion of the world sees us a laughing stock once we had a democratic vote and then didn't honour it.

Ignoring democracy was something that only used to be done in the third world.
 

domtheone

Distinguished Member
Struth the lefties here are really getting very combative with their postings.

I hope that means Brexit is nigh:D:D:clap:
 

Dbcoup

Distinguished Member
Pretty sure they see them as a large proportion of the world now see the UK, a laughing stock

Then all the left wing fanatics should take a step back and bow their head to democracy, The remainers are the ones making this Country a laughing stock by acting like petulant children. 🤫
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
Google says circa-55,000 in total which is still significantly less than the UK. I am not sure why would you want me to "include the civil service figures for all the other countries in the EU" - how does their efficiency or inefficiency relate to the figures you quoted for the EU? Whichever way you cut it, the EU does an awful lot with not that many people in the grand scheme of things.
The problem is of course the bloated bureaucratic organisation does not need all the maintenance and defence requirements a country must have.

After all, the bureaucratic organisation itself resides in a country and takes advantage of the defence, police, health service, council provisions and all the other built-in services provided by a country. All nice and safe and sound and secure - lovely.

But I'll leave that now - we obviously have different viewpoints, which is fair enough.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Struth the lefties here are really getting very combative with their postings.

I hope that means Brexit is nigh:D:D:clap:

Then all the left wing fanatics should take a step back and bow their head to democracy, The remainers are the ones making this Country a laughing stock by acting like petulant children. 🤫
So only left wing voted to Remain? Does that mean only right wing voted for Brexit?

As for behaving like petulant children, I think you know full well that's happening on both sides.

Oh and criticism today for TBP mostly originates from their repulsive act to abstain on a vote regarding an imprisoned British citizen. Indefensible.
 

Dbcoup

Distinguished Member
Oh and criticism today for TBP mostly originates from their repulsive act to abstain on a vote regarding an imprisoned British citizen. Indefensible.
The EU cozy up to Iran behind the scenes and shows OMG outrage to the great unwashed. Total hypocrites. Dont get sucked into all the BS.
She is a political hostage in a much bigger picture. And nothing a token gesture vote will fix.
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
Unfortunately Nazanin-Zaghari has been caught up and held as a hostage over politics.

The EU has a great deal of various investments tied up in Iran and has to be careful politically and diplomatically not to upset the boat. So it resorts to only vocal condemnation and demands, but no action or any sanctions.

I think though that it was a big mistake that the Brexit MEPs did not vote on the EU's motion. After all, it has nothing to do with Brexit and involves a British citizen.
 

Dbcoup

Distinguished Member
I think though that it was a big mistake that the Brexit MEPs did not vote on the EU's motion. After all, it has nothing to do with Brexit and involves a British citizen.
As I understood it, their argument is, the EU SHOULD be forcing the issue with sanctions, to hit them where it hurts rather that just a meaningless vote display of hypocrisy to satisfy some. Their abstention was a display to highlight the BS that is the EU.

I'm happy to be corrected, but I think the negativity is misplaced.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
The problem is of course the bloated bureaucratic organisation does not need all the maintenance and defence requirements a country must have.

After all, the bureaucratic organisation itself resides in a country and takes advantage of the defence, police, health service, council provisions and all the other built-in services provided by a country. All nice and safe and sound and secure - lovely.

But I'll leave that now - we obviously have different viewpoints, which is fair enough.
More than happy to agree to disagree - I don't believe you have made the case for it being a "bloated bureaucratic organisation" though and repeatedly saying it doesn't make it true. Also, if you are going to quote defence, it is worth noting that (uniformed) Armed Forces personnel are Crown Servants rather than Civil Servants and therefore not included in the UK figures quoted.
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
As I understood it, their argument is, the EU SHOULD be forcing the issue with sanctions, to hit them where it hurts rather that just a meaningless vote display of hypocrisy to satisfy some. Their abstention was a display to highlight the BS that is the EU.

I'm happy to be corrected, but I think the negativity is misplaced.
That is a good political point of view, but diplomatically a big mistake.

Think of her relatives, friends and the general British sentiment regarding her brutal imprisonment. It will not do the British MEPs any good at all diplomatically and will isolate and show them as a bad lot among all the do-gooders in the EU Assembly. They are British representatives after all.
 

Dbcoup

Distinguished Member
That is a good political point of view, but diplomatically a big mistake.

Think of her relatives, friends and the general British sentiment regarding her brutal imprisonment. It will not do the British MEPs any good at all diplomatically and will isolate and show them as a bad lot among all the do-gooders in the EU Assembly. They are British representatives after all.
The MEP's have given their reason why the abstained, I cannot speak for her or her family, but I can see through the gesturing BS, so I see no reason why they cant.
Once more the media whip up a frenzy under false pretense, with their (not so) hidden agenda.
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
More than happy to agree to disagree - I don't believe you have made the case for it being a "bloated bureaucratic organisation" though and repeatedly saying it doesn't make it true. Also, if you are going to quote defence, it is worth noting that (uniformed) Armed Forces personnel are Crown Servants rather than Civil Servants and therefore not included in the UK figures quoted.
I feel the 40 year-old bloated bureaucratic organisation is unnecessary and not required. Surplus to requirements. It enjoys a extremely healthy financial income without any blood, sweat or tears; unlike most countries.

It's like a big mosquito feeding off the blood of it's member 'states'.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
I feel the 40 year-old bloated bureaucratic organisation is unnecessary and not required. Surplus to requirements. It enjoys a extremely healthy financial income without any blood, sweat or tears; unlike most countries.

It's like a big mosquito feeding off the blood of it's member 'states'.
You're clearly not a fan Alan and are seemingly quite emotional about it. A little hyperbolic IMHO but I accept your differing view.
 

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