Brexit in a nutshell

D

Deleted member 51156

Guest
Spoken like someone who ignores those on the front line, maybe that’s why she’s your ex?

The NHS isn’t the only employer who pays wages whilst people are ill. Have you considered that many of those people getting ill aren’t just doing it for a skive?

Why do you think degree level training isn’t required? According to previous posts, the current training courses are oversubscribed, suggesting that there are more than enough people who want to go into the vocation so it’s obviously not putting them off.
Nursing became a degree only course in 2009 so from 2013 onwards all qualified nurses are trained at degree level.
Clinical services, so came from the private sector then ?
And not a trained health professional?
Lots of employees also get full sick pay regardless of where they work.
To say there isn't a staff shortage in the NHS is ludicrous.
I mean who wants to study as a nurse these days with a starting salary of 23k and student debt of 30-40k
Don't see nurses complaining to much, lots of NHS users are complaining because they can see with their own eyes when they use the service that it's massively short staffed.
It's the best health care system in the world for the money and it's brilliant.
I just wish it was funded correctly.
What has that got to do with anything at all. Go quote from a newspaper. :rotfl:

Nope, NHS to private sector, back to the NHS. Worked her way up from band 5 to mid band 8.

NHS users complain because staff are rude, attitude problems and some are downright incompetent, with no recourse to retrain or discipline. The other problem is staff have very little experience of other industries. My background is construction, comparatively much more technical and strenuous work, however sickness is 3 times lower.

As for the pay, that's a good starting salary and with on call payments, overtime, training, pension, uniform, social life, increments. Don't kid yourself, it's a good job. When I met my ex wife she was on £40000 plus for less that 5 days work as a band 5..
Nhs staff are deluded.
 

Pacifico

Banned
NHS is one of, if not the most efficient health care systems in the world. Bang for buck is exceptional but it IS underfunded, and people are suffering for it.

There's no more slack or fat left to cut. Continued under-funding will now harm patient outcomes, simple as that.

How much more money needs to be spent considering that the NHS budget doubled in real terms from 2000 to 2016 and rose from 4.9% GDP to 7.3%
 

gamerste

Well-known Member
What has that got to do with anything at all. Go quote from a newspaper. :rotfl:

Nope, NHS to private sector, back to the NHS. Worked her way up from band 5 to mid band 8.

NHS users complain because staff are rude, attitude problems and some are downright incompetent, with no recourse to retrain or discipline. The other problem is staff have very little experience of other industries. My background is construction, comparatively much more technical and strenuous work, however sickness is 3 times lower.

As for the pay, that's a good starting salary and with on call payments, overtime, training, pension, uniform, social life, increments. Don't kid yourself, it's a good job. When I met my ex wife she was on £40000 plus for less that 5 days work as a band 5..
Nhs staff are deluded.
Band 5 tops out at £27,635 in 2018.
To top 40k she would have to work the equivalent of 23.5 weeks overtime per year.
No it's not a good starting salary I'm sorry it's not.
Works out at £11 an hour.
Wages are a massive problem within the NHS hence why it's so short-staffed.
I reckon nursing (I'm not a nurse and never have been)is far more strenuous than your 4pm finish construction work.
And I can hold my hand up and say my colleagues work is far more technical than your construction work.
What other experience of other industries are needed.
The NHS offers a whole range of in house courses from business to leadership to a whole host of other courses.
 
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richp007

Distinguished Member
No evidence whatsoever, no not one qualified statement to back up your hearsay and assertions. Rehashing of what you've read and heard on question time and other media sources.

You know nothing of the NHS, not one example to qualify what you mean, just a broad generalisation.

Forgot to reply yesterday, but I see it'll just be a waste of time anyway as I realise now from the rest of your posts that you're another living away with the unicorns and fairies.

You have no idea what experience I have with NHS services; that which I do centres around mental health and the services that have been decimated by years of Tory cuts to vital areas. Children, young adults and their families who desperately need help and can't get it.

Ever spoken to a child whose suicidal? Ever spoken to a parent whose child has tried to take their own life?

And construction more strenuous than working with people's lives? The most moronic thing I've ever read on this forum. Why do you think the sickness is 3 times lower as you say it is? Christ alive you're clueless.

Plus seeing you talk such utter tosh as the problem is staff sickness, and then being as crass in your last post as to suggest NHS staff are deluded is a disgrace. The pressures many have to handle, and the workload they have to manage. You're an absolute joke to suggest none of that is relevant.

And getting back on the topic of Brexit, you started off crying about the Supreme Court decision you still clearly don't understand, then started asking for evidence about something that hasn't actually happened yet. It's all prediction and projection, and if you'd bothered to read up on something that doesn't fit into your perfect little view of what's happening, you'd know much more about the topic you pretend to be an expert on.

Already wasted enough time debating with you as is, not wasting any fudgeing more.
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
What has that got to do with anything at all. Go quote from a newspaper. :rotfl:

Nope, NHS to private sector, back to the NHS. Worked her way up from band 5 to mid band 8.

NHS users complain because staff are rude, attitude problems and some are downright incompetent, with no recourse to retrain or discipline. The other problem is staff have very little experience of other industries. My background is construction, comparatively much more technical and strenuous work, however sickness is 3 times lower.

As for the pay, that's a good starting salary and with on call payments, overtime, training, pension, uniform, social life, increments. Don't kid yourself, it's a good job. When I met my ex wife she was on £40000 plus for less that 5 days work as a band 5..
Nhs staff are deluded.

I funnied your post because it’s hilarious. The idea that your ex was on £40k as a band 5, without working double hours of overtime, is pretty hard to believe.

There’s no denying that there are NHS staff that are rude etc, it’s a huge organisation. I’d go so far as to say there are probably as many rude/incompetent people in the construction industry, that’s human nature. I’d also disagree that construction is any more strenuous than nursing, they’re both hands-on roles, and my wife looks ready to drop after one of her 12 hour shifts with a 30 minute lunch break in the middle. I think it’s pretty harsh to say NHS staff are deluded, I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t if you were sitting in a hospital bed being cared for.
 
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gamerste

Well-known Member
that was in 2015 - since then we have had announcements of large increases in funding.


Boris Johnson vows to build 40 new NHS hospitals and replace crumbling buildings under £13billion plan
Did you read the full facts link that was up to date with everything you need to know about the NHS and it's current funding.
Boris can vow to build what he wants with his money from the future.
The NHS has been drastically cut under this current Tory government.
Anyone who says it has not isnt telling the truth
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
that was in 2015 - since then we have had announcements of large increases in funding.


Boris Johnson vows to build 40 new NHS hospitals and replace crumbling buildings under £13billion plan

:rotfl:

He can announce all he wants, I’m sure his followers will lap it up.

It’s just that, when reading the actual details, their plans are actually to build 3 new hospitals, renovate 3 and then put in “seed funding” of £100m for the other 34 to put plans down, and hope that someone funds them at some point in the next decade.

The same goes for the boost in NHS funding by 2024/25. Until we get there and see the truth, it’s all just more manifesto bs.
 

Pacifico

Banned
Did you read the full facts link that was up to date with everything you need to know about the NHS and it's current funding.
Boris can vow to build what he wants with his money from the future.
The NHS has been drastically cut under this current Tory government.
Anyone who says it has not isnt telling the truth

And what are you basing this claim on? In 2000 Government expenditure on the NHS was £74 Billion - that has now risen to £144 Billion by 2016.

So what cuts are you discussing?
 

gamerste

Well-known Member
And what are you basing this claim on? In 2000 Government expenditure on the NHS was £74 Billion - that has now risen to £144 Billion by 2016.

So what cuts are you discussing?
Funding since 2009-2019 has been at 1.1% The lowest period of growth in funding since the NHS began.
It was at 6.3% 1999-2009.
So cuts.
Did you read the full facts link I posted
 

two2midnight

Distinguished Member
And what are you basing this claim on? In 2000 Government expenditure on the NHS was £74 Billion - that has now risen to £144 Billion by 2016.

So what cuts are you discussing?
The cuts in growth needed to keep pace with demand shown on the graph below perhaps...

changes_in_uk_public_spending_on_health.png changes_in_uk_public_spending_on_health_by_govt.png

The highest years of the coalition and Cameron governments are below or very close to the lowest years of the Major, Blair and Brown governments.

As for your figures they seem different to those below as regards 2016.

Total health spending in England was around £129 billion in 2018/19 and is expected to rise to nearly £134 billion by 2019/20, taking inflation into account.

In 2018/19 around £115 billion was spent on the NHS England budget. The rest was spent by the Department of Health on things like public health initiatives, education, training, and infrastructure (including IT and building new hospitals
Spending on the NHS in England
 
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Pacifico

Banned
Funding since 2009-2019 has been at 1.1% The lowest period of growth in funding since the NHS began.
It was at 6.3% 1999-2009.
So cuts.
Did you read the full facts link I posted

So you are now admitting that funding has grown - just not as fast as you would have liked?

Well thats progress..:smashin:
 

two2midnight

Distinguished Member
So you are now admitting that funding has grown - just not as fast as you would have liked?

Well thats progress..:smashin:
Funding has to rise to keep up with inflation and increased costs. A 1% rise is actually a cut in real terms when what is needed is a 2% rise and so on.
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
Funding since 2009-2019 has been at 1.1% The lowest period of growth in funding since the NHS began.
It was at 6.3% 1999-2009.
So cuts.
Did you read the full facts link I posted
The tables that you quote are in "real" terms not absolute terms i.e. they take inflation into account.

If the table shows expenditure increasing by 1% then it went up by 1% more than inflation. For example, if inflation that year was 3% then absolute expenditure must have increased by 4%.

So the tables show that every government since the 1950s has increased NHS expenditure in real terms.
 

ostewart

Well-known Member
that was in 2015 - since then we have had announcements of large increases in funding.


Boris Johnson vows to build 40 new NHS hospitals and replace crumbling buildings under £13billion plan

Yeah, that has been proved to not add up:


Forgot to reply yesterday, but I see it'll just be a waste of time anyway as I realise now from the rest of your posts that you're another living away with the unicorns and fairies.

You have no idea what experience I have with NHS services; that which I do centres around mental health and the services that have been decimated by years of Tory cuts to vital areas. Children, young adults and their families who desperately need help and can't get it.

Ever spoken to a child whose suicidal? Ever spoken to a parent whose child has tried to take their own life?

And construction more strenuous than working with people's lives? The most moronic thing I've ever read on this forum. Why do you think the sickness is 3 times lower as you say it is? Christ alive you're clueless.

Plus seeing you talk such utter tosh as the problem is staff sickness, and then being as crass in your last post as to suggest NHS staff are deluded is a disgrace. The pressures many have to handle, and the workload they have to manage. You're an absolute joke to suggest none of that is relevant.

And getting back on the topic of Brexit, you started off crying about the Supreme Court decision you still clearly don't understand, then started asking for evidence about something that hasn't actually happened yet. It's all prediction and projection, and if you'd bothered to read up on something that doesn't fit into your perfect little view of what's happening, you'd know much more about the topic you pretend to be an expert on.

Already wasted enough time debating with you as is, not wasting any fudgeing more.

Thank you so much for this post, my partner suffers with mental health issues and the support is not there, I've only been with her for a short amount of time but I know her parents have had to battle with this for a while and it has been really hard for them.

She's moved in with me, and is getting some support but it's still far from being what is needed. Suicide rates have risen, and that needs addressing by funding mental health services here in the UK



And just to bring it back to Brexit, I do not trust the tory party to fund the NHS, if we leave without a deal I dread to think what will happen:

 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Thank you so much for this post, my partner suffers with mental health issues and the support is not there, I've only been with her for a short amount of time but I know her parents have had to battle with this for a while and it has been really hard for them.

She's moved in with me, and is getting some support but it's still far from being what is needed. Suicide rates have risen, and that needs addressing by funding mental health services here in the UK


No need to thank me, I'm sure I just echo out loud the thoughts of many when confronted with such disgusting attitudes toward the NHS. And it's staff.

We lost one of our own members on here not long back, and they suffered with mental illness too.

It's an issue not to be taken lightly, and those who have to deal with it daily - be it patients or staff - are to be commended and not condemned.
 

rampant

Well-known Member
Well you've left so you won't be using it will you.
Unless your South Asian hospitals are not up to scratch then I imagine you'll be back home using the nhs

and why not? - i pay more tax to the UK in a year than the average person earns - so i have the right to use the facilities i pay for?
 

gamerste

Well-known Member
and why not? - i pay more tax to the UK in a year than the average person earns - so i have the right to use the facilities i pay for?
But when you leave you don't pay any tax into the system.
So you could stay out there for 10+ years and think ah I'm not well the good ol' NHS.
Even though you haven't paid in.
I'm happy to treat anyone that needs the NHS that's the point of it.
 

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