Brexit in a nutshell

Ruperts slippers

Distinguished Member
Why shouldn't I focus on the aspect I know about? That's what everyone does when they talk about experience. That's what you asked for.

Genuinely sorry for your ills, but it's still no reason to round on NHS staff. You will only have ever met a tiny proportion of them. And I'll bet incompetence, bullying and lack of compliance etc is rife in the construction industry too.

Incidentally NHS workers have saved the life of my father 3 times in the last 5 years.

No-one is trying to shame you, you've done enough of that yourself with your dismissive comments about "deluded" NHS staff and the work they do, and the "feminine" workers line (that was clearly a dig, no question, and I've no idea why you felt the need to do so).

And at the thrust of it all you're still wrong about the court case. Yet you're trying to claim the high ground with some sort of academic debating level over it. You need to be on the right page first.
However, the construction industry doesn't blow its own trumpet on how professional its members are. The construction industry is well known for its blunders, non academic, cocaine snorting, heavy drinking, hyper masculine, covert criminal aspects. Its common knowledge. The brawn to get the job done comes with caveats.

You'll never change my mind about NHS staff, patient surveys, NHS staff all complain about the same problems I have highlighted. ONS stats back this up, patients associations, policy objectives also highlight staff sickness (Just one of many) as a big problem. As for trust, both partners working experiences, management, covers the north of England both private sector and public. Seminars for managers cover the whole of the UK trusts, meetings in the capital are a regular event.

The ex wife on returning to the public sector remarked on the change in staff attitude and working practices being archaic and financially irresponsible. Yesterdays date mentioned the men in the NHS not being masculine, comparatively to those in construction they're not.

I'll never agree with your left leaning sympathies, I think people should be self sufficient, make sensible choices financially, make sensible choices regarding drink, drug, sexual habits, support there own families and children. Social community care, projects, place a huge financial burden on those willing and able to earn enough money to support this ideology. Constantly asking for more money just enables social ills, the teach a man to fish analogy works perfectly here.
 
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Pacifico

Distinguished Member
And just to bring it back to Brexit, I do not trust the tory party to fund the NHS, if we leave without a deal I dread to think what will happen:
Surely all that will happen is the same as happened for decades before we joined the EU - you vote at a General Election for whatever Party you want to see in power based on their promises. After brexit there will be absolutely nothing preventing the electorate sending that nice Mr Corbyn into No10 with a landslide majority and a mandate to double spending on the NHS.
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
After brexit there will be absolutely nothing preventing the electorate sending that nice Mr Corbyn into No10 with a landslide majority and a mandate to double spending on the NHS.
Nothing other than not wanting to support Marxist, anti Semitic extremists who plan on seizing private property from across the economy including our pension funds. :cool:
 

Ruperts slippers

Distinguished Member
There was another thread about the NHS.
Sickness absence in the labour market - Office for National Statistics

Across the board public sector workers have a higher demographic of women and women are shown to be:
The groups who experienced the highest rates of sickness absence were:
Demographics and geography
Women (2.5% versus 1.6% for men)
Figure 10 shows quite clearly that the public sector has a higher rate of sickness than the private sector.
For the October 2015 to September 2016 period, the “odds” of reporting sickness absence (when controlling for different factors that may influence sickness) for different groups were:

32.0% higher for women relative to men
27.0% higher for workers in the public sector relative to workers in the private sector
36.0% higher for workers in organisations with 500 and over employees relative to workers in organisations with less than 25 employees

So we have a large organisation employing women with incentived sick pay scheme, what could possibly go wrong.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
I'll never agree with your left leaning sympathies, I think people should be self sufficient, make sensible choices financially, make sensible choices regarding drink, drug, sexual habits, support there own families and children. Social community care, projects, place a huge financial burden on those willing and able to earn enough money to support this ideology. Constantly asking for more money just enables social ills, the teach a man to fish analogy works perfectly here.
Wow, that's sadly some next level naivety about real life right there.

Taking personal responsibility is all fine until the day comes when you might actually need some help beyond what you can manage yourself.

So what happens then? Well seeing as social care and any help that way is such a terrific burden to others, let's just leave the people that need assistance to it shall we. Let's leave the mentally ill to take care of themselves, let's leave the suicidal kids to get on with it, let's leave the disabled man/woman to fend for themselves. It's fine, god forbid we wouldn't want to burden anyone!

Ever cared for a relative with dementia 24/7? How does a family manage an autistic child? How do you cope with a suicidal relative?

You talk about supporting yourself as if it gets no worse than catching a cold. The attitudes of some are beyond belief, and it is always the right leaning Tory voters like you who have no vision of society beyond your own little bubble.

Community care quite literally save lives, I've seen it happen. Support workers and projects are lifesavers for families who need assistance with mental health. And these are disappearing fast, and adding impossible pressure to the lives of people who actually do just want to go out to work, earn a living, and support themselves and their families as best they can.

Life isn't always rosy, so god forbid you or your family or any of your friends ever need any help beyond what you can provide for them. Beyond your "self sufficiency" shall we say. What will you do then? If you were alone and suddenly suffered a debilitating illness and there was no-one to take care of you, what would you do? If you had no means to fall back on and no-one to look after you?

It's ok, just manage yourself according to you. That's not how real life works.
 

SteakAndCake

Suspended
I'll never agree with your left leaning sympathies, I think people should be self sufficient, make sensible choices financially, make sensible choices regarding drink, drug, sexual habits, support there own families and children. Social community care, projects, place a huge financial burden on those willing and able to earn enough money to support this ideology. Constantly asking for more money just enables social ills, the teach a man to fish analogy works perfectly here.
Maybe we should remove the police and see how self sufficient people like you are when the desperate poor turn up at your house to simply take what they like. I'm sure you don't mind the financial burden of policing.

Using your fish analogy, stopping people hitting that desperate rock bottom is the fishing lesson. The fish is the increased policing costs to protect those who have from those who don't.

The right love small government, and big personal responsibility but they're always strong on policing and the military. Funny that.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Maybe we should remove the police and see how self sufficient people like you are when the desperate poor turn up at your house to simply take what they like. I'm sure you don't mind the financial burden of policing.

Using your fish analogy, stopping people hitting that desperate rock bottom is the fishing lesson. The fish is the increased policing costs to protect those who have from those who don't.

The right love small government, and big personal responsibility but they're always strong on policing and the military. Funny that.
The police have to spend too much of their time dealing with the mentally ill as well. Because the resources aren't there for them to utilise either.
 

Ruperts slippers

Distinguished Member
Maybe we should remove the police and see how self sufficient people like you are when the desperate poor turn up at your house to simply take what they like. I'm sure you don't mind the financial burden of policing.

Using your fish analogy, stopping people hitting that desperate rock bottom is the fishing lesson. The fish is the increased policing costs to protect those who have from those who don't.

The right love small government, and big personal responsibility but they're always strong on policing and the military. Funny that.
I think you've been watching too many films, this isn't a live rerun of City of God.

We did actually have a 4 gang armed robbery here last yr.
I'm not right leaning, I stand upright. :rotfl:
 

Har-One

Distinguished Member
Wow, that's sadly some next level naivety about real life right there.
I am afraid that there is very little naivety there. It is just a perspective from experience and misguided assumptions. Usually it is because some of us never have experienced rough life, lack empathy or simply make us feel better when all these problems our caused by their own fault.

We all should take responsibility for ourselves and make sensible choices, I agree with that statement. The problem is that many of those people have no possibilities of making any choice. They are force by circumstances, economic downturns, etc into a situation that it is almost impossible to break out it.

It is sad when humanity and concern for others is just dismissed as left leaning positions.
 

psikey

Well-known Member
The word 'social' is not in the Tory vocabulary.
It is sad when many people without issues thinks its great for working tax payers to support their life without doing a bloody thing. Also takes away the support that should be going to the genuinely needy.
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
It is sad when many people without issues thinks its great for working tax payers to support their life without doing a bloody thing. Also takes away the support that should be going to the genuinely needy.
You forgot to mention cigarettes, booze and the Sky box.
 

psikey

Well-known Member
You forgot to mention cigarettes, booze and the Sky box.
Often true, not forgetting in other cases Tattoos, piercings & drugs use.

I have people in my own family circle that plead poverty and can't meet bills yet still mange to get hair dyed or pop off to the pub and a new tattoo each month. Its real whether you make light of it or not.

I fully appreciate there are disabled and those suffering from serious mental health conditions that do genuinely need support, and that those in certain parts of the country that do work still need help with excessive housing costs.
 
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