Brexit 10 ways the UK could change

Discussion in 'Brexit Forum' started by pragmatic, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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  2. Cliff

    Cliff
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    I guess this is the first of many scare stories.
    As soon as I read the first paragraph I knew what to expect from the rest.

    'You will not be “fast-tracked” through the EU lines at passport control.

    Instead of: When you return to Britain you will zip through Passport Control because you will not be waiting with hundreds of Europeans. UK citizens will have their own line :clap:
     
  3. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    Not very scary though, maybe just the first salvo.
     
  4. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Oh no, not the beaches again :)
     
  5. EarthRod

    EarthRod
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  6. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Bring Back Plasma
    Decent Vacuum Cleaners

    What, you want more? :D
     
  7. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    Sovereignty, self determination ... just the little things.
     
  8. Cliff

    Cliff
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    Bent Bananas....
     
  9. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    Ripe unbent bananas but bendy cucumbers though!
     
  10. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Repealed in 2008 apparently :)
     
  11. tapzilla2k

    tapzilla2k
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    Into the hands of incompetent and out of touch Politicians in Westminster rather than the crazy Federalists in Brussels ? Yeah I'm sure that'll work out just as well.
     
  12. johntheexpat

    johntheexpat
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    All powered by electricity generated by EDF.
     
  13. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    Nope page 4/5 http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/quality/policy/com2009_234/ia_annex_a2_en.pdf

    Keep it for the 10 most traded fruit, but narnas are different anyway and not changed at all.
    I'm sure we'll hear plenty of bleating that it is a europhobe myth etc. I wanna buy a banana that's yellow, so I can eat the thing there and then rather than having to wait a few days.

    Wiki page is quite good on this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Regulation_(EC)_No_2257/94
     
  14. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    What was that deal with countries not allowed to run state subsidies ...
    Another one France and Germany merrily ignore while the UK gold plate, even selling off Royal Mail (although to be fair MPs of all shades wanted shot of that albatross).
     
  15. Cliff

    Cliff
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    It would be funny if it wasn't all true!
     
  16. tapzilla2k

    tapzilla2k
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    Bananas are a moot point, the current Banana monoculture has to be replaced due to fungal diseases. Surprised the EU hasn't banned Bananas as the commercial crop is a monoculture which basically means every Banana is a clone. Woooooooooooooooo as Ric Flair would say.
     
  17. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    EU are fan of clones, easy to control ;)
     
  18. EarthRod

    EarthRod
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    Ah yes, but they are our incompetent and out of touch politicians in Westminster - and they have been democratically elected.

    Unlike the unelected god-like Brussels bureaucrats with their directives which mush be obeyed without question.
     
  19. tapzilla2k

    tapzilla2k
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    By a shrinking number of voters. While the rest vote for silly dogs on talent shows that enrich Simon Cowell further. I propose we make Simon Cowell Dictator for Life!

    Merkel the Destroyer will not be pleased if we leave the EU.
     
  20. domtheone

    domtheone
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    He couldn't do any worse.:smashin:
     
  21. EarthRod

    EarthRod
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    He could issue a directive that we all wear trousers with the belt at tit level.
     
  22. nabby

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    I don't remember electing any Whitehall bureaucrats and mandarins. They're the ones wielding the power and influence here. Likewise the lobbyists.
     
  23. EarthRod

    EarthRod
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    I feel sorry for our MPs - the weight of power and responsibility must be massive, together with being overburdened carrying out the additional constituency work.
     
  24. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    Keep your friends close and your government closer.

    If people think that Westminster cares little for the shires, well in the EU Commission and Parliament they probably don't even know they exist, in fact countries turn into new EU shires.

    I'd rather the incompetents were close enough that I can give them a clip around ear, than living in a fortress in another country. Local democracy brings about better representative'ness but more importantly a greater (or even some) level of consequences, and scrutiny. Most people don't know who their MEP is, there is little to no media reporting on EU legislation, programs like the Daily politics/This week etc concentrate on 'domestic' matters, papers rarely mention the EU etc, if there was a law we didn't agree with, we wouldn't even know about it until it was imposed and not know who to give a kicking for it.

    Even then if every single British/UK MEP voted against a measure, with 9.5% in the EU Parliment we could be overruled every time and have laws imposed on us we have no interest in or even are vehemently against.#
    Oh but what about the council of ministers you might say before it even gets to a vote, well every instance a veto was used it has turned into EU law and subsequently made its way into UK law, this was before the change to qualified majority voting were veto's (as useless as they were) no longer apply.* Yes but there is the right of subsidiarity^ introduced in the Maastricht Treaty and strengthen in Lisbon via yellow/orange card that nation states can use to indicate issues with proposed laws, but yet again in all cases they have been used by the 10's of times by the HoC and 7 times by HoL it has effectively been ignored (much to the chagrin of national parliaments).

    The very idea the national parliaments should effectively have no control over the ever increasing areas of 'competency' that the EU has, is making the general election and the two houses less and less worthy of our attention, while no increase in coverage over the institutions that have siphoned that power away.

    Interestingly this is something that the EU understand or at least gives lip service to, one can only assume they simply don't care https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...sponse_to_EUC_national_parliaments_report.pdf


    #The UK’s representation in all of the EU’s bodies has declined dramatically. Since 1973 the UK’s voting power in the Council of Ministers has decreased from 17% to 8%, in the European Parliament it has decreased from 20% to 9.5% and in the European Commission it has decreased from 15% to 4%.

    *Since records began, the UK has not managed to prevent a single proposal placed in front of the Council from becoming European law. This amounts to 55 measures that the UK has opposed, since 1996, but have gone on to become British law. http://forbritain.org/measuring_britains_influence_council_ministers.pdf

    ^The principle of subsidiarity - UK Parliament
     
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  25. tapzilla2k

    tapzilla2k
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    If we leave the EU, then we need to reform our voting system, the House of Lords and give the Civil Service mandarins a kick up the backside. They are ultimately the arbiters of power as they are the ones who generally have to implement policy regardless of which Party is in power.

    I shall return to cracking jokes about Politicians and the EU at a later date. Gotta save my best ones for the EU vote itself. Merkel The Destroyer may return when Cameron's hopes and dreams are shattered by her not budging.
     
  26. Cliff

    Cliff
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    Having just watched the BBC's Hard Talk with Manuel Barroso, he made the valid point that it is not 'Brussels' or Merkel that makes the rules. It is the member states! They vote and approve them.

    I know its obvious, but there is this tenancy in the UK to think that the idea of central power was dropped on us from nowhere.

    And if we think that other countries want the same reform as us, we are mistaken.
     
  27. tapzilla2k

    tapzilla2k
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    It's why I keep banging on about Cameron failing to build alliances amongst the other EU memberstates over the last 5 years to get the kind of reforms he wants. Merkel is in a much better position to make those sorts of deals as Germany is bankrolling the Eurozone and she's played the game better.
     
  28. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    The interpretation of the rules and the appetite for changing them do live there though, look at the fiscal regulation (Budgets must be signed off by the EU/Germany, deficits must be limited to a few percentage points ...) that Cameron Veto'ed, every other EU country signed up to a multilateral agreement because that was where Merkal and Brussels lead.

    By the look of it most the PM's didn't have a clue what they've signed up to, and since then France has broken those rules umpteen times, so why did they bloody well sign up to it in the first place, and how come Germany has the power of clemency to let them of?

    It seems the rules only apply when they want them too, hypocrites talking about the UK wanting special treatment, at least when we sign up to something we bloody well stick to our word.
     
  29. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    Well if that's how its played, maybe we're better off out.

    Did Blair play it better when he gave away half the rebate?
    Did Heath play it better when he got nowt in the renegotiation.

    The only PM who seemed to get anything out of it was Maggie and that's because she slapped them about. The sleazy back room dealing of the likes we see with FIFA is not the way the UK operates, but it seems to be a European disease.

    For example elevating Junker to President of the Commission when he hadn't received a single vote from the EU electorate, all after his dodgy Presidency of Luxembourg where he was thrown out for using the countries secret service to dig up dirt on his political rivals.
    If that was not enough he engineered while in power the tax avoidance policies of Luxembourg used by many of our large corporation, robbing EU nations of taxable income by firstly reducing corp tax to a ridiculously low level that put them on a unfair advantage that no proper country could afford to do, but cemented that by also illegally forming deals with large corporations to give them special one of rates, says it all: sneaky, underhanded and unscrupulous (IMO anyway).
    Makes wanting to get your moat cleaned on the public purse or asking questions in the house for brown envelopes of cash look positively amateurish.

    It's like giving Sepp Blatter the job of running the IOC or the bloody UN for a job well done.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2015
  30. EarthRod

    EarthRod
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    EU directives are drafted by the Commission (EC) and one commissioner per country, 28 members, form the executive body. Members are bound by oath to represent the interests of the EU and not their home country. The EC also include the administrative body of about 23,000 civil servants.

    The Commission members are proposed by their governments, one from each. However, they are bound to act independently – neutral from other influences such as those governments which appointed them.
     

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