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Bravo D1 DVD Player + AE300

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Julia, Oct 21, 2003.

  1. Julia

    Julia
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    I'm on the point of buying a Bravo D1 DVD player (that has been hacked multiregion) and I'd like to make sure I don't make a big mistake...:)

    I want to buy it to use its DVI output for my AE300 and its component output for my Sony TV (as the D1 doesn't have a scart output I was thinking of using a component to scart cable as the one from Profigold:
    http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/dynamic/eshop_products.set/ref/59/display.html

    I'd like a DVI to scart cable for my TV connection, but I don't think it exists (maybe someone can tell me I'm wrong?;)) .

    Still I'm not sure if D1 it's 240v or 120v... in which case I'd need a transformer?

    Any ideas if my combination D1/AE300/Sony TV is going to work, or I forgot something?

    Thanks in advance,

    Julia
    :)
     
  2. gothmog

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    Umm, that's probably Component as in R,G,B to Scart rather than component Y,Cb,Cr to Scart that you need :(

    You'll probably be stuck with s-video for the TV, not that there's that much in it on such a small screen ;)

    I didn't realise that the Bravo could be got multiregion? How much you paying for it? :)

    -- Jon
     
  3. Julia

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    Thanks Gothmog for your reply.

    So what component to scart cable should I use (I don't have a clue about the difference). Maybe you guys could help me here...

    I've got a 36" Sony and I'd like to use something better than s-video if possible...

    The D1 I found is about £140-150 delivered.

    Thanks,

    Julia:)
     
  4. gothmog

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    I think you'll be struggling. YCrCb and RGB are a different types of signal so some electronics will be required to convert between the two, a simple cable isn't going to work. You would need something like a ProV, however this type of thing usually is for converting other sources to YCrCb not from it ;)

    There probably is something that will do it but it'll be more expensive than just having a seperate player for the telly ;)

    -- Jon
     
  5. Julia

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    Am I wrong in assuming that the only DVI DVD player for AE300 is D1? I know that there are other DVI DVD players like Mimo that have a scart output, but I don't know if they also work with Ae300 (and if they are multi-region)...

    So I need a separate convertor ( and not a simple cable connection as I thought). I'm not sure anymore if D1 is a good idea...:confused:

    Thanks,

    Julia
     
  6. KraGorn

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    Julia, where are you getting the Bravo from? I'm interested in this for my own 300 but after much searching round hre I haven't found any reference to someone selling them .. and Google came up completely empty too. :(

    Cheers
     
  7. Julia

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    KRaGorn,

    I'm thinking about buying it from eBay....
    So, you'd like to buy one too? Do you think it to be the best for AE300? My problem is I want it for the TV too and I'm not sure if S-video is a good choice?

    Julia
     
  8. KraGorn

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    I'm considering a Bravo as one option ... currently I use an HTPC which gives excellent results but is somewhat ham-fisted when playing and navigating DVDs.

    If by "I want it for the TV too" you mean you will be connecting the DVD to a TV as well as a PJ then s-video will be more than adequate for the TV connection, given the relatively poor signal quality of a typical TV compared to the pj. I didn't notice any significant different when I used to run a Toshiba DVD into a Toshiba TV, alternating between component and s-video.
     
  9. Julia

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    Can anyone suggest some (cheap:)) component to scart converter that I could use to link D1 component outputs to the TV scart?

    All Ideas Most Welcome!

    Thanks,

    Julia
     
  10. Julia

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    KRaGorn,

    Thanks for your reply. So the difference between component and s-video is not that noticeable... :). That's good news!

    Currently I've got an HTPC too, so I'll see how big is the difference on AE300 between DVI HTPC and the DVI of the DVD player.

    Still I'd like to know what options I'd have for a converter...

    Thanks,

    Julia
     
  11. KraGorn

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    In this case. :D

    There can be a world of difference when connecting other equipment ... such as when using a progressive scan DVD player, which often (always?) needs component connections ... but in this case IMHO the display device isn't capable of showing what difference in quality there may be between them.
     
  12. Julia

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    Thanks KRaGorn.
    Meantime I've bought it and now I keep my fingers crossed I won't have any problems with it ( I'm not 100% sure I've made the best choice, but we'll see :)).

    For a progressive scan image the TV has to be progressive scan compatible?

    (just trying to reasure myself I've made a good choice ;)).

    Julia
     
  13. KraGorn

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    Yes.

    I'm pretty much a newbie when it comes to this stuff and don't have equipment capable of doing progressive, using the PC does the job, so I only know what I read. There are two TV standards, as you may know, NTSC and PAL and when a DVD player claims "progressive scan" it doesn't necessarily mean it supports both NTSC and PAL, some are only NTSC even though they can play PAL in interlaced mode.

    As for TVs, not sure if CRT TVs ever support progressive, clearly plasmas and projectors can and often do, I don't know about normal domestic TV sets though.

    Hope the Bravo proves a good buy. :)
     
  14. olaiho

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    Just to warn you:

    The Bravo D1 uses the Sigma EM8500 chipset (flag based film mode detection), so it does not provide an optimal picture with PAL discs.

    Read more @ Avs Forum

    BR,
    Olaiho
     
  15. olaiho

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    BTW Julia, are you familiar with the "Force Weave" functionality of your HTPC software DVD player?

    BR,
    Olaiho
     
  16. Julia

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    Olaiho,

    Thanks for your post. I knew I should have read more about D1 before buying it ....
    No, I have no clue about what "Force Weave" functionality is (tell me more if you can :)). I had a look at V inc home page to see if I can get the firmware for AE300 and their hotlink is not working :(.
    Do you happen to know which resolution from D1 is the best for AE300?
    Thanks,

    Julia
     
  17. olaiho

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    OK, let me try to explain this in a simple manner. Maybe someone else will benefit from this info as well. Here's how I understand it (feel free to correct me):

    Video is stored on DVD discs in interlaced (non-progressive) format. In order to convert interlaced video to progressive, basically either of two different deinterlacing processes can be applied:

    Video deinterlacing, which is used with video based material (typically these are DVD extras, low budget movies, movies shot on video). Video deinterlacing is quite a difficult process. Progressive scan DVD players typically provide better picture quality in video deinterlace mode than HTPC software players. Video deinterlacing is the default deinterlace mode. Video projectors usually have internal deinterlacers that are only capable of video deinterlacing.

    Film deinterlacing, which is used with film based material (movies, DVD extras shot on film). This is a pretty simple process of combining the correct interlaced fields together.

    How does a progressive DVD player or a software player know whether a piece of video is video based or film based?

    Progressive DVD players can be divided into two basic types: "flag-reading" and "cadence reading".

    Progressive scan is widely recognized in the USA. Region 1 DVD movies contain a digital "flag", which tells a deinterlacer that it should switch to film mode. A flag reading deinterlacer relies on entirely on these flags. This is OK if your entire library consists of Region 1 discs, but the problem is that PAL discs typically do not have these flags, so a flag based reader will never switch to film mode.

    If a deinterlacer uses video deinterlacing on film based material, you will get an inferior picture with reduced detail and lots of jagged edges.

    A cadence reader deinterlacer is intelligent, capable of recognizing film based material. What it does is it takes a couple of frames of video, analyzes them and switches to the correct deinterlace mode based on this analysis. This is the way all deinterlacers should work! Some examples of cadence based deinterlacers are products by Silicon Image and Faroudja. I remember reading about you having the Philips Q50, it has the Faroudja FLI2200 deinterlacer, which is cadence based.

    HTPC software DVD players are flag readers. But they can be forced to use film mode, so that you get a great picture also with PAL movies. This feature is called "Force Weave". How it is activated depends on the software player you are using. Just let me know which player it is and I will guide you.

    If you previously have not had Force Weave enabled on your HTPC, you have been getting an inferior picture from your PAL movies. By turning on Force Weave you will notice a significant picture quality boost. You will see what the HTPC is really capable of doing!

    Hope this cleared up some things for you! If not, ask me and I'll try to explain more.

    BR,
    Olaiho

    p.s. In their newest firmware Bravo have implemented specific display modes for the AE300. These are: L300U wide 480, L300U wide 600 and L300U wide 768.
     
  18. Julia

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    Thanks Olaiho for this very helpful post:). Now I remember why a long time ago I ticked the option Film Mode on my TeaterTek ;).

    That's a pity, as I have a combination of DVDs (lots of Region 1 and 2 and 4).

    Is there any other DVI DVD player option for AE300? I got the impression that there's no choice but D1 (please correct me if I'm wrong).

    Is any difference betwen D1 and Momitsu V880?

    Thanks,

    Julia
     
  19. olaiho

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    Great! You already had it selected.
    FYI, Samsung just released the HD-935, which is a DVI equipped player. It uses the new HDCP standard (digital copy protection, must be supported by the projector), but fortunately Samsung have added a switch that can be used to disable the HDCP. =)

    This Samsung player contains a Faroudja chip, it is used with the DVI output. The player also has progressive component out, but the component output is deinterlaced with an inferior chip =( So the component out is useless.

    A user here in Finland has already tested the Samsung player with an AE300, and it does not work properly. AE300 scales the image incorrectly, a large piece of the picture is left unused, same problem as with the Bravo D1 and the Momitsu and the AE300. The Samsung player would also need custom settings for the AE300, but I don't think Samsung will be adding them anytime soon...
    I remember reading that they are pretty similar - suggest you do a search on AVS Forum.

    Does it need to be a DVI equipped player? What happened to your Philips Q50?

    Now that PAL progressive is finally "legal", there is bound to be many new players available soon.

    I agree that HTPC's can be a nuisance sometimes, but the picture quality is just so good!

    BR,
    Olaiho
     
  20. Julia

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    Thanks, Olaiho for the info regarding Samsung (I had a feeling it won't be that easy to make it work with AE300 ).

    I've tried to read more about D1 on avs, but I could not get access to the page reffered bu Allan in the sticky note about D1 (just sent an email to support, maybe the page was deleted).

    I never had an Philips Q50, but I had initially an Toshiba SD900 that I've managed to return quickly back to where I bought it from, as I thought I'd better buid an HTPC (so I had built the HTPC before I knew that 1:1 is not possible on AE300). I'm using the HTPC with DVI to my AE300 and the image is pretty good, but I was thinking to have a second option with DVD player (for the kids daytime viewing). The output from the HTPC to the TV is not that great.

    I expected more choice of DVD players since the PAL "legalization" (I also expected all the new TVs will have it too).

    Do you think D1 DVI will be better than HTPC DVI (1072x600 res) with AE300? (I don't know if anyone made any reference to a test like this).

    Thanks,

    Julia
     
  21. uczmeg

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    Bravo D1 is the same as the V880 (Momitsu or Brainwave) but apparently cannot be made region free.

    A new firmware has just be released for the V880 (today) and it states that it has fixed DVI output for Panasonic projectors!

    Updating the firmware is pretty easy.

    A HTPC is probably always going to be the best way to go if you can get 1:1. It all depends on how your projector scales the resolutions it's getting when it is not 1:1. I would have thought it would be close to as good as the PC.

    You can't 1:1 an AE300 at all? not even with powerstrip and a Radeon card?

    Olaiho, you state the HDCP can be turned off on the Samsung 935. How?

    Does the multiregion hack do this? I got one that the hack had been applied and it works great in 720p on my non HDCP projector.

    :)

    The answer to your question about does it have to be DVI? Well in my limited experience if you can get DVI in it kills any other input source (Component, VGA, S-video etc).

    Cheers
    Marc
     
  22. KraGorn

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    While this is pedantically true, you CAN get effective 1:1 for DVD playback. :)

    There's been a lot of discussion on this subject in various places, here is a link to AVSForums' long thread on the subject. IIRC this contains information passed on by someone who made contact with Panasonic's engineers who confirmed pure 1:1 isn't possible.

    Here is a detailed FAQ about getting near 1:1.

    As you'll see if you read the last post or two from the AVSForums thread, the "HDTV50 settings by mkang" as shown in the FAQ work very well indeed for video viewing. There is a slight downside in that the Windows desktop is slightly truncated, by around 6 pixels I think, but it has no affect at all on DVD. The FAQ contains other settings which people have tried but I'm happy with the 'mkang' ones.
     
  23. olaiho

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    Translating from a forum in Finland:
    "There is a switch called "DVIVIDEO" next to the "PROGRESSIVE" button, that changes the scaling mode. This deactivates the HDCP protection."

    BR,
    Olaiho
     
  24. uczmeg

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    I think that may be a mistake in the manual!

    The button next to progressive is the DVI on switch, as HDCP is associated with DVI you are actually activating it not deactivating it!

    I have the English manual here which basically says you must have a HDCP display if you use it.

    However I can use it and I don't have HDCP...

    Cheers
    Marc
     
  25. inzaman

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    Hi Julia i was following this thread with interest as i am tentively looking for a dvi dvd player, did you get your Bravo D1 and if so how does it perform especially with pal encoded discs. Thanks
     
  26. Julia

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    Hi Inzaman,

    Sorry to dissapoint: I haven't got my D1 yet (I will receive it in a week or two).
    I'll let you know how it works as soon as I get it. it's PAL and NTSC and it's supposed to be mulit-region.
    The only bad point so far is that it's only 110v and I have to buy a transformer too. I have a mixture of region 1,2, 4 DVDs so we'll see if it rocks as it should :D.

    Julia
     
  27. inzaman

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    Thanks for the response julia look forward to your opinions in a few weeks in particular to the picture quality of pal discs due to flag reading and pal dvds not having flags, also the sound output. Hope it does rock though :smashin:
     
  28. Julia

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    Hi Guys,

    I got my D1 days ago, but I was too busy to post...
    It was packaged in double box and I paid no VAT, customs etc. (it was declared as gift :) Horray!!!)
    And it's Absolutely Gorgeous!
    I don't see any difference between my HTPC DVI and D1 (when I have some time maybe I'll post 2 pictures to compare?)
    I've just typed in the AE300 parameters for DVI custom resolution and off it went! :).
    Of course I got used to TeaterTek menu, but for the money ,D1 is an excellent choice. The S-video connection to my Telly is not soft at all!
    Just one word: I'm very, very pleased !!! :clap:
    I recommend it as a very good choice!

    All the Best,

    Julia:smoke:
     
  29. Hellicopter

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    Worth checking the AVS Forum website.From memory there is a thread on Proj.compatability and certainly lots of info on the Bravo player.
     
  30. inzaman

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    Julia glad you are enjoying the bravo, have you tried both NTSC and PAL disks? If so do they both look excellent through DVI and what is the sound quality like from the bravo, thanks again.
     

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