Question Bravia XD83 and PS4 Pro HDR is worse than SDR?

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by jupean, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. jupean

    jupean
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    Hello - new here so apologies if I don't follow rules perfectly from the outset.

    So - I have a PS4 Pro and bought a Sony 49 XD83 over the weekend, and was looking forward to some 4K and HDR gaming

    I am aware of it's relative limitations - IPS panel, mid-range price/capabilities - but I was not prepared for just how poor HDR is on it on PS4 Pro

    SDR content looks great - reasonable black levels and contrasts, and I think it upscales 1080p very very well and Youtube, Netflix and Amazon UHD and HDR content look good too.

    However, the PS4 Pro HDR content is just super washed out. When HDR content is selected the signal moves from 2160p RGB (which looks great) to 2160p YUV422 which immediately adds a grey milky tone to the whole picture and to the game it is playing. I have set it to Enhanced HDMI, HDR Auto and am using the HMDI2.0 ports on it but is is seriously worse on black levels than SDR to make it unusable.

    I appreciate that the implementation of HDR on this set is not going to be best in class, but it is so much worse than SDR that I have to assume that somewhere along the line the PS4 and the TV are just not communicating properly - I feel somehow that the TV is not in an 'HDR Video' mode. I have noticed with other HDR content running that you cannot change the picture settings, yet you can when PS4 is running HDR content.

    I'm rambling - but would appreciate advice here as I just cannot accept that the output here is correct. Thanks - Justin
     
  2. Andehh12

    Andehh12
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    What game are you playing?
     
  3. jupean

    jupean
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    I am playing Last Guardian, First Light, FF XV, The Last of Us and Uncharted.

    When you select them - the PS4 changes the output from RGB to YUV422 - and then everything goes grey and washed out - including the Home Screen. It is so significantly worse than SDR that I have to assume either something is wrong technically, or I have been mis-sold on HDR if that's the best it can be.
     
  4. Andehh12

    Andehh12
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    From that list I've only played Uncharted and although at first it did feel a little washed out, it's actually a much more natural and realistic picture than with HDR off (on my 55XD9305 anyway). Once I've been playing for a while, turning off HDR makes it feel massively oversaturated and cartoonish)

    I've seen a lot of comments and discussions about this and many people are saying the same thing so it's not just you.
     
  5. jupean

    jupean
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    My perception is just that the Brightness has been hit up to the maximum. Blacks are now clearly grey. I feel duped. I think HDR is not fully formed and needs to be. I think this TV can take an HDR signal OK, but it can't process it in any meaningful way that advances picture quality. If the key selling point of the TV (and it is based on the size of the 4KHDR logo on the box) makes content appear worse then I think that Sony - and others - need to rethink how they sell and produce HDR sets. I now believe there is a very limited amount of TVs - probably only LG OLED - that can use an HDR signal to make the picture better.
    4K SDR looks great, but that's not why I bought the TV.
     
  6. Andehh12

    Andehh12
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    It depends how the content creators use HDR. UHD HDR Blu-Rays look great, as do HDR shows on Netflix and Amazon (although Netflix seems to mostly have dark or sepia-ish content available).

    I haven't had any experience of blacks looking grey (except for HDR letterboxes on Amazon).

    Maybe it's an issue with your set or that model in particular.
     
  7. jupean

    jupean
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    HDR letterboxes?
     
  8. Andehh12

    Andehh12
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    Letterbox format shows in HDR. The letterboxes are completely grey rather than black on Amazon. Goliath is a good example.

    I actually contacted Amazon on this and they told me it's a known issue that they are working on.
     
  9. jupean

    jupean
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    OK - I think this is the same issue - on SDR borders are black, on HDR they are grey because the implementation of HDR on this set includes whacking the Brightness up to MAX.

    I bet that same content in 1080p has black borders
     
  10. Andehh12

    Andehh12
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    No, letterboxed HDR content on UHD Blu-Ray or Netflix is fine
     
  11. jupean

    jupean
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    What HDR content are you using on Netflix?
     
  12. Andehh12

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    Marco Polo is a good test.

    Just to confirm, is your TV auto-switching to HDR mode when you play HDR content?
     
  13. jupean

    jupean
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    Yes it is. I am just reading on another forum that this is a widespread problem and a potential solution is to cycle from Enhanced HDMI to Standard HDMI and back to Enhanced HMDI.

    Will test later.
     
  14. Andehh12

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    Ok let me know, I'd be interested to know if it makes any difference. Have you tried playing with the Dynamic Range settings in the TV as well? Auto vs Limited vs Full?
     
  15. jupean

    jupean
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    I tend to leave that on Auto
     
  16. next010

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    Could it be the display settings preset, I dont have a sony or my issue was related to hdr but on my samsung the cinema preset even after tweaking always gave a washed out image, I switched to the standard preset and tweaked then all was fine.

    Dont some HDR TV's have separate display settings when in HDR mode, double check game mode is active.

    It doesn't sound like it's working right, it's a real shame sony dont provide a playstation optimized experience even with their own TV's.
     
  17. jupean

    jupean
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    Well - it is the end of the line for my XD83. My view that it cannot handle HDR in any meaningful way is confirmed. I took it back to PC World and have now gone to the other end of the spectrum - LG E6. Very expensive, but I cannot emphasise enough how impressive HDR signals are on it and it is absolutely ridiculous that Sony are able to market a TV as HDR when what it does bares no comparison to the delivered product. I think there needs to be more regulation of marketing of HDR sets - my research has told me that the cheapest set that can really do HDR is the Samsung KS8000.

    PC World knew exactly what my issue was and were more than happy to accommodate whatever change I needed.
     
  18. Andehh12

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    Have you seen any comparison between the X83 and X93?
     
  19. jupean

    jupean
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    No - I would have to assume that X93 is better - it has to be, but my long standing loyalty to Sony was burst by the experience I had here so I was not going to look at another Sony LCD for HDR. Research told me it was KS8000 for LCD, and LG if I really wanted to go the whole hog. Given that the LG supports Dolby Vision and indeed future HDR codecs I felt it was worth the investment. Very pleased so far.
     
  20. Staarlord

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    I had this issue, too, on my XBR43X00D.
    First, note that most people are accustomed the the black nature of SDR(minimum black details). We're used to the fact that, say, armor we may have used in a game that previously appeared black/ charcoal, but in actuality was supposed to be/ contain dark shades, now appears to not hold as high a black point. When I look at someone's watch, my eyes can tell that its band is not pitch black, for instance, and in fact not much is in life, besides oil, or being locked in a closet with no ambient source of light. Therefore, HDR blacks are supposed to look flatter and grey. What matters is when there is real black detail to deliver when it's required.

    That said, my picture, too, was unnaturally milky, Then I found that my TV video output was set manually to RGB Full, and this was fine with non-HDR content, but, due, to the limited nature of HDMI 2.0, we can't run full uncompressed RGB+HDR at 4k...but you may if your resolution in your games is set as 1080p. Therefore, my TV was looking for more information than it was receiving from my HDR games, and that made things grey.

    Additionally, you may want to bump gamma down to minimum and black level down to, say, 42(from 50).
     

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