brake upgrade??

Hi,

My front brakes need replacing on ym 2003 Peugeot 206 GTi 180.

They are currently 283mm vented disks and performed very well but have now started juddering slightly under braking and have lost the usually bite.

I have had a look around and can get normal disks for £75 + pads for around £25

Black Diamond - drilled/grooved disks with Predator pads and braided hoses for around £250

Or......

Hi Spec 4 pot big brake conversion with 285mm drilled disks, braided hoses and green stuff pads. This lot comes in at £650 which seemed quite reasonable for 4 pots.

I do quite a bit of city driving, starting/stopping and sometimes like to put my foot down a bit.

Would the 4 pots really be worth it I've had a few little bits done and with an independant rolling road I got 203bhp at the flywheel but only 168 lb/ft torque.

Thanks for any opinions or comments.
Mark
 

Londondecca

Active Member
Generally speaking, the main advantage of 'upgraded' brakes is their ability to cope with heat and thus avoid brake fade. However, it is always worth finding some dedicated forum to see what options work with your car.

I have a Alfa 156, the standard brakes are do not inspire confidence and a standard recommendation within the Alfa forums is to use Feredo Performance pads as these provide a better feel.

If you wish to upgrade the brakes I would also suggest looking at the rest of the suspension, super duper brakes with a worn suspension is a waste of time and money
 

WhyAyeMan

Member
When I had a Clio 182, which had a similar braking system to yours, I found that it was lacking in a few areas, and these would need to be addressed in such a way where i wasnt overspending buying stuff I didnt need.

Your driving needs are the same as mine, and this is how I attacked the problems.

The first problem was it used to fade under repeated heavy use (i.e. fast driving on country roads). The brake discs were adequate for the job, and it was mainly the pads letting me down. The solution was to buy fast road pads such as the Ferrodo DS2500. They will probably cost around twice as much as OEM pads, but are worth the money, and will eliminate brake fade for all but the most lunatic drivers... in fact they would probably do pretty well for most on the racetrack too.

The second problem was lack of feel at times. I discovered this was due to the brake hoses expanding / flexing. I solved this problem by fitting metal braided lines. This really firmed up the pedal and made the brakes feel far more positive.

The third problem (which is in agreement with the poster above) was diving under high speed, hard braking. This in the Clio's case was due to rather soft suspension (mine didnt have the cup pack... whether it would have helped i dont know). The solution to that is to firm up / lower the suspension. A set of Eibach springs will do nicely there. You wont of course eliminate it completely, but it will help lots. In fact, the stronger you are able to brake, the more it highlights this fault.

So for you, I would certainly address the first two, and if the latter is also a problem then consider upgrading springs.

So in order of importance (in my opinion): 1. Upgraded pads, 2. Upgraded lines, 3. Firmer springs (and possibly dampers if you want to go the whole hog). For normal road use I think upgraded discs are possibly overkill, and 4-pots definitely are unless you are a real track slag.

Incidentally, I currently drive an Integra Type R with 197 BHP, weighing 1090 kg, and that is fine on stock pads and discs (282 mm), but it does have very firm suspension which does prevent the diving on braking phenomena...
 
Thanks for the replies so looks like I will get some standard 283mm vented disks/fast road pads and some braided hoses and with the money saved look at upgrading the suspension a lilltle :thumbsup:
 

Londondecca

Active Member
For a road car I am not sure I would spend money on the braided brake pipes. They are a nice thing to talk about but you could save some money by replacing the old pipes for some OE (or equivalent) ones if your worried about a failure.
 
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=612353

that thread mate. gutted i've never had any problems before. I'd just saved up a few hundred quid for some nice brakes and a few other bits and this has happened. My biggest concern is the quality of the re-spray to be honest with you the car is in absolout mint condition never been car washed etc so I don't want some dodgy resprayed doors :s I would go to ecosse but there mega expensive and a few hundred miles from me but I'm still tempted if the works going to be spot on.....:rolleyes:
 

alexs2

Distinguished Member
Juddering is often a sign of the discs being slightly warped,and is not uncommon if the cooling is inadequate.

As to aftermarket brakes,I think that pbirketts advice is very sound.....check to see that the discs arent warped,and if not,the pad and brake line upgrades may be more than sufficient,especially with the sort of power and weight involved.

If you have either track days or similar in mind,or a seriously fast car,then Alcon or AP Racing offer some of the best aftermarket systems,but at a price to match their abilities,and are much more capable than many of the other systems available,but both are really aimed at a different performance level.

As he has also said,upgrading the suspension can also give a lot more potential....again,there is something to suit most pockets,starting with off the shelf kits from Eibach,Bilstein etc.....the others are again aimed at those with very deep pockets and suitably fast cars,and work out at more than £1k per wheel.
 

SeanT

Distinguished Member
Don't be put off High Spec though, have heard very good things about them - I've always DIY'd brake upgrades mind (the focus ST170 and / or RS brakes can be made to fit on a lot of fords!)
 

Scott_Mac

Distinguished Member
Hi Spec make stunning braking systems, they may not be the Alcon/AP of this world, but they're a lot cheaper!!

As said above though, pads, lines, fluid are always sensible and of course never overlook the other key thing in the slowing down of a car, the contact patch of the tyre.... decent rubber can make a huge difference!

I'd sooner fit cheese in my calipers than Green Stuff too btw!!! It may be exclusive to my car, but i've driven a few with them and they're poor, even on the road let alone track!

The other thing to bear in mind with brakes is it's all well and good going for something with lots of bite, fade resistant etc, these type of pads (Pagis RS14, Ferodo DS2500 etc) only really work well when they're HOT, and old grannies never pull out on you when your brakes are up to temp....
 

SeanT

Distinguished Member
That's why I use Mintex, makes the wheels a bit dusty but works on road AND track :)
 

Scott_Mac

Distinguished Member
That's why I use Mintex, makes the wheels a bit dusty but works on road AND track :)

1144's are one of the best road pads, they do work on track but can't handle hard abuse... so in this instance a good option. Next level up with a more even track/road balance i'd go with SBS ProTrack or Pagid RS42 (depending on preference, the Pagid probably slightly better on road, SBS better on track) pretty much ultimate on track and if you're the last of the late brakers is the Pagid RS14....

Just wish i had the choice, there's only one pad available for my car as it uses a aluminium/carbon composite disc/pad combo - it's bloody light mind at about 3Kg per brake disc and they last about 100,000 miles with pads covering 50k!
 

alexs2

Distinguished Member
I'd sooner fit cheese in my calipers than Green Stuff too btw!!! It may be exclusive to my car, but i've driven a few with them and they're poor, even on the road let alone track!

The other thing to bear in mind with brakes is it's all well and good going for something with lots of bite, fade resistant etc, these type of pads (Pagis RS14, Ferodo DS2500 etc) only really work well when they're HOT, and old grannies never pull out on you when your brakes are up to temp....

I think I'd agree with this....I used Pagid on one of my cars for the rears and found them to be not only long lasting but pretty decent in terms of grip and initial bite,but the carbon metallics that came with my APs were without question the best I've ever used.
Good initial grip,decent feel and no fade even when used hard,and a huge improvement over the car's original full carbon pads which were rather useless for the road!
 

The latest video from AVForums

LG G1 OLED Evo TV and SVS SB-1000 Pro subwoofer reviews, Samsung OLED rumours and more...
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom