boycott HD formats

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by ash005, Mar 27, 2006.

  1. ash005

    ash005
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  2. Bat-man

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    Blimey - all those links.
    Have you read them all?
    If so - how about a synopsis?
     
  3. BadAss

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    Well it says on that site just say 'No', well I'm just going to say 'yes'. I'm all for copy protection, I hate seeing people being ripped off with realy crap copies while some punk lines his pockets.

    Good on Sony and others, AACS is the way to go.
     
  4. Mr.D

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    I'm with badass. Boycott the boycott.
    We finally get workable high defintion formats and some clowns want to complain about the rights management those of us with a pulse knew were coming 3 years ago.:rolleyes:

    Reminds me of the plums who used to moan their Tv only had an RF input when dvd players arrived.
     
  5. shaithis

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    If there is a reason to boycott, it is solely to make them release a SINGLE next-gen format and not this lets-confuse-and-annoy-early-adopters bull they are going with.
     
  6. bibamus

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    I suppose they have to protect their content, and in a way, I am with them on that. Too many people illegal copying has ( once again) spoilt it for the rest of us.
    What I dont agree with is over enthusiastic protection. I didnt read all the links, but I read ( somewhere else) of protection where playing back a dvd on a second machine is prohibited, or replay on a PC invokes the protection and it wont play.
    Bit of a pain for people using a media centre PC to play dvd`s. Sensible copy or playback protection is necessary, but sometimes these people dont just want two bites at the cherry, they want all of it, the stick and the pit, and a bite out of yours too.
    I still think the best protection would be to bring down substantially, the cost of recorded media, making copying less lucrative. I am sure they would still make obcene profits, and, lets face it, most films released to DVD have made a fortune at the box office both in ticket sales and of course, merchandise, which again, suffers from counterfeiting.
    So, what was my arguement again, am I for it or against it? I cant remember......

    Allan
     
  7. Mr.D

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    Sorry this is nonsense. There is no second machine lockout ( how could there be...the disc would need to carry data over to the second player).

    The PC pipeline has not been finalised but its likley to involve HDCP compliant graphics cards and possibly hardware compatable motherboards although this is still supposition. And Vista may be a necessity , although XP can probably get patched. Eventually the PCs will be no more or less rigourous in DRM than the standalone players.

    None of this will effect dvd playback only the newer hidef formats.

    Can't understand why people find it so difficult to understand a machine designed for dvd playback might require significant upgrade/adaptation to play a different format. Its a different format...

    And once again it gets us future access to PCs that have a bona fide hidef playback , reception and download path. Its the ONLY way it would ever have happened end of story. I'm just glad they are going through with it . The whole hd-dvd vs bluray saga is small potatoes compared with this.

    Its a good thing and it wil get us good things in the future.
     
  8. Gordon D

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  9. meltonboy

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  10. arfster

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    If there are too many restrictions in HD formats, or the new format is used as an excuse to jack up prices, personally I'll just download movies instead. If things are reasonable I'm quite prepare to buy (got >100 DVDs now).

    Let's face it, there is more than a HD upgrade involved here. The new format is little more than an excuse for the studios and electronics companies to make billions with people replacing their movie collections and players - on a 9.4GB dual layer DVD you can fit an entire 1080i24 movie in MPEG2, let alone with h264.
     
  11. dan1979

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    But you'd still need new players to play them.
     
  12. Alaric

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    Hi There,

    Mr D.
    While i agree with the above statement, its not quite as applicable here. Unless you use a HDMI converter which they are trying to squash it will kill off the vast amount of display devices that are arround including a lot of high end CRT projectors and bits. Besides its not down to the physical capablilities of the machine, but what the studios dictate.

    I hate piracy of DVD etc i've never seen the point of spending thousands of pounds on my kit to feed rubish in.

    The silly thing is that its likely to get cracked by people with lots of dodgy money and as usual the gormless customer is about to get pinalised:nono:

    cya,
    Lee
     
  13. arfster

    arfster
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    True, but at least for mpeg2 the players would cost peanuts (same drive mechanism, same mpeg2 decompression) - you can even get some already that can play dvdroms with standard mpeg2s on them, and it wouldn't take much to stick a dvi/hdmi on the back and route out through that. By contrast, bluray and HD will be stupidly overpriced :)
     
  14. Ruperts slippers

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    The studio's may or may not use the new drm protection anyway ,so i think the best thing to do is to sit and wait ,and see what happens.

    Piracy is of course a problem ,but the biggest problem is the contrick used by the studio,s in convincing everyone that they are getting value for money by paying extortionate prices for dvd's ,music cd's and other merchandise .

    As a former internet retailer and distributor of muisc and dvd's the mark up on these products is rather large and the studio's as well ,as some retailers are making a rather large profit all at the expense of the man in the street.

    These drm measure's do nothing to protect the artist ,but everything to help the giant money making machines to even more greedy profit.
     
  15. Rimmer

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    Not at decent bit rates you can't. For near artifact free 1080p24 you need around 14Mbit/s, which equates to 12.6 GB for a two hour film, and that doesn't include the soundtracks.
     
  16. Rasczak

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    Exactly. The new formats provide the extra capacity to not only hold high bitrate versions of the movies (e.g. upto 36MBits/S - well above what you'll ever see broadcast) but also multiple high definition audio tracks as well.
     
  17. Mr.D

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    Whether the DRM is cracked or not is immaterial . Its the only way that we would ever get official hidef content...end of story. Its a seachange. *( and I wouldn't get too confident that it will be crackable in any meaningful way for any length of time, those content keys are going to be pretty well looked after).

    And for all the people with displays that won't handle hdcp correctly , your kit will still perform the purpose its designed for , namely displaying the current formats.

    Blu-ray and HD-DVD (and eventually all the other permutations of hidef delivery) are a different format , why expect your equipment to support them if its not explicitly designed to do so? Your equipment doesn't stop working just because a new format appears , whether it supports that format is a different matter.

    Can't make an omlette without breaking some eggs ...and I for one want the omlette.
     
  18. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Seems like there are a few people on here who would complain about the price of the discs even if they were a fiver. DVDs are hardly expensive, HD formats are probably going to be somewhere around 25quid a disc. That's hardly pricey . Wasn't long ago we were prepared to pay 40quid or more for a nasty laserdisc.

    The market will sustain a price that sells.
     
  19. JamesL

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    >>>> Whether the DRM is cracked or not is immaterial . Its the only way that we would ever get official hidef content...end of story. <<<<

    I thought so as well but as the studios seem to be allowing high def by component it seems it's not so important after all. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    I'm not going to boycott the new formats (I am eagerly awaiting both!!!) but I do think some of the proposed restrictions will make our life a little more difficult (especially when it comes to portable media) so don't understand the glowing praise some members seem to have for the addition of AACS to the discs. :confused: Piracy (which I'm sure no-one here supports) can be crushed by far more effective measures: reduction of theatre/disc release gaps, high quality extras, competitively priced discs etc etc
     
  20. Mr.D

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    Wait and see how many discs take advantage of the DRM. Would you risk having a dvd player that gave a blank screen with every dvd that had macrovision?

    As far as I'm concerned the discs are "competitively priced" ,exras are so much fluff . I'd pay the full whack for a decent mastering, keep the extras.

    If its not to your liking ...stick with dvd.
     
  21. JimmytheSaint

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    There are a large number of people that don't have the money to upgrade every component in their equipment rack at once. We are talking about an HDMI 1.3 display ideally of 1920 x 1080P, we are talking about a processor (integrated or otherwise) that can handle TrueDD/DTS audio (as of the moment there isn't one), we are talking about possibly having to purchase TWO different players to cover various content on two different competing formats and repurchasing our libraries of dvds....................Whoop-di-do!!:rolleyes:

    I understand the industries need to enforce copy protection (although now they realise the formats would not take off without allowing full-rez over component initially), but the whole implementation has been a fiasco and as usual it's us, the consumers, that will have to pay the price, whilst the pirates continue lining their pockets!:thumbsdow
     
  22. JamesL

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    But you won't need to upgrade everything at once. If you don't have a high def screen yet you can still connect by component: many of the studios seem to be planning full high def via analogue. Even if they don't you will still get higher than DVD resolutions and higher bitrates so it will look better even on a SD screen.

    Secondly there is no need to upgrade your amp/receiver yet. Most of the high def players will have onboard decoding for the new audio formats so just connect to your existing amp using 7.1 analogue connections. It will probably be several years before affordable HDMI 1.3 receivers that support the new formats arrive anyway.

    So your only real immediate purchase is the player. And yes there are two formats but the 'launch' ranges have been announced so you know what to expect from each for the first 6 months/year - so from the launch range pick your format! I intend to get both formats (eventually) but only the HD DVD launch range looks any good. So I'll buy one of those now and get BluRay later.
     
  23. Nic Rhodes

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    If they don't get HD component then many users with HD screens that are not HDCP aware will be stuffed.

    Using the 7.1 / 5.1 inputs on receivers / processors are a great ideal IF YOU HAVE THEM!! Many people don't as it moving away from the idea of the AV processor doing the audio.

    For many people it will require more than a player...unfortunately
     
  24. BadAss

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    If you reduced the price of any of those measures you mentioned it would only drive the cost of a copy down. Poeple would still buy them no matter what.

    From what I've read AACS is crackable, but if it is cracked they just release a new code which is secretly embeded in you latest HD puchase which changes the key on your player without you even knowing. That key then sits until its been cracked and then its onto another. So unlike DVD players which needed to be cracked just once, BD will have millions of keys to be cracked.

    I think the first six months to a year will be AACS free to give people more time to buy new equipment but then will come the activation code and it will be goodbye expensive analog cables and hello HDMI.
     
  25. paul1967

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    I remember when they tried all this with VHS and there was so many compaints it was dropped because nobody was buying those titles that had the scramble codes on. Or renting as some machines stopped the owner watching them and were having to keep taking them back, the other thing is as well , the codes to crack the discs will be sold to the pirates anyway by some discruntled employee as it be shown before
     
  26. ash005

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    i dont have any pirated dvds, but i do have copies of dvds i own to watch in other rooms

    i especially dont like this idea

    next they'll be keeping a record of what you watch!

    i would love hd, but at what cost?


    ash.
     
  27. Mr.D

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    Is it such a hardship to take the disc into another room? Seems like less hassle than having a stack of copied discs in every room you have a dvd player in. And how many hidef setups were you planning to have dotted around the house that actually warrant having hidef plugged into them? The point of all this DRM is to stop people making copies , its an inherent part of the format . You might as well accept it in the same way that you accept your vhs player won't play dvds.

    They cannot keep a record of what you watch with the new formats , why scaremonger? I don't see why distributors would be particulary interested in your viewing habits anyway

    I don't actually have a problem with people keeping tabs on my watching habits anway. Tivo ? Sky plus ? Heard of them? Blockbuster? Hardly sinister.

    The thing people seem to have failed to grasp is that opting for the hidef formats is purely voluntary . Your present equipment will not stop working. If you cannot afford to upgrade your kit or don't want the formats for whatever reason then don't buy them. No one forced you to move from vhs to dvd. No one forced you to buy a 16x9 TV .
     
  28. ash005

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    do you know this for sure?

    i dont have any of the above - and blockbuster dont have my address, or correct name for that matter



    it may be vountary for now, but for how long.

    for me its not a question of cost, but people are being forced to accept digital tv over analogue, in certain respects people are being forced to choose dvd over vhs due to lack of availability. What happens when the big players decide to stop doing dvd in favour of hd-dvd or blu-ray, because it makes them more money?



    ash.
     
  29. Mr.D

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    The players have no requirement to be plugged into a phone line or internet connection.

    The switch over to digital TV is a requirement that has been legislated by the government , hardly the same thing as a consumer hardware launch . Its also been well telegraphed for over the past 10 years , hardware is cheap and now well established...hardly a nightmare.

    As for the future , hd-dvd and bluray have no necessity built in to require monitored exclusive usage. Unless they create a new format the current specs do not give any reason to worry about this. Other formats that might appear ( such as downloading and hidef net TV services) might well have monitored exclusive rights management. Again why is this such a worry ?

    Your internet access and usage is already monitored what's the big deal with your viewing habits? Its little different from current PPV models and if it gives us access to hidef versions of films a few weeks after their cinema release ( or even simultaneously) what's the problem?

    As for the cost issue. The market will support the price its prepared to. From what I've seen so far the launch prices for the new formats ( discs transmission) are about what you'd expect . Software only a little more than dvd and hardware significantly less than first release dvd players.
     
  30. ash005

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    it just worries me the way things are going

    everything is becoming mnore and more restricted, controlled and regulated

    i disagree with people having so much information about me, and why they would need that information


    ash.
     

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