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Bose Bashers - where are you now?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by superpixel, Jun 11, 2005.

  1. superpixel

    superpixel
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    My dad wanted another Bose Lifestyle 28 (cost £2500), but obviously I told him not to bother and get some proper hifi.

    Anyway, to cut a long-story short, we just had a lengthy demo of the Anthony Gallo Nucleus Micros (with Harman Kardon DVD22, AVR630 amp and Gallo TR2 sub - total cost £2500) against the Bose in the same room (the dealer used to sell Bose) but...

    The Bose was far better than the Gallos :eek: This was with DVDs, music and from low to very high volumes.

    Everything was the reverse of what I expected - with the Gallos the bass was big and crashing, but the soundstaging, airiness, transparency and detail was poor, and dialogue unintelligible. Turning down the sub and cranking the centre channel didn't help. With the Bose, the bass didn't quite have the same impact and definition, but my God, the sound from the satellites was leagues ahead of the Gallos - vocals popped right out, the soundstaging and imaging were superb, it all went from muffled to crystal clear (the front-to-back plane in particular was impressive). The dealer had to admit defeat too, but not without claiming we were duped by the 'non-fidelity' sound of the Bose...

    I don't want a Bose argument, I just want to know given that the Nucleus Micro's dont cut it (and I'm now wondering how many Gallo reviewers have ever heard a Bose properly...), what does?! Within the price, size, style and features of the Bose....do I have to step up to Gallo Due's ?

    PS M&K K/Xenon aren't sleek enough, B&W M-1's are too big, Monitor Audio Radius were even worse than the Gallos...

    Help :lease:
     
  2. hornydragon

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    perhpas it was due to the set-up the fact the AG sub is pants in the world of Subs........... there is much better for the money, BoSE can be better, Micros are small and cute but not all that what does he actually want? HiFi? BOSE NO, AG NO, for proper HiFi dont look for lifestyle systems.....................Lifestyle is lifestyle looks good costs lots sounds pretty poor..................
    PS I know the % in Bose and its sold because it makes a hell of profit, not a hell of a sound!
     
  3. gingerone

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    You're never going to get amazing sound from something that small.
     
  4. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I agree with hornydragon that the subwoofer is particularly poor, especially at that price but - and it's a big but - if the bass was big and crashing the whole system wasn't set up properly and it is quite easy to make anything sound poor if it's not set up right. Try another demo with a different dealer that actually knows how to set equipment up properly and you may feel differently this time.
     
  5. LesMcNulty

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    Take it from someone who knows that the loot the Gallos is more than the Bose gig, it sells because it's a well known brand, I'd be surprised if anyone actually claimed it sounded better that trad hifi can.
    It wins on the small accessible remote interface, and the fact you can sneak it past the wife and still manage pretty large sound.
    Remember the average bloke is looking to have a big sound and toys that impress his pals. Bose they recognise Gallo and the rest are not.
    Doesn't mean Bose are the best.
     
  6. Daneel

    Daneel
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    I had the chance to listen to a Bose 123 system (the $1000 one) for the first time recently at my cousin's house. It was a reasonable listen....if it had cost $200.

    I'm not fan of small speakers, but haven't heard the Gallos. Perhaps you could try something else if they didn't impress you? There must be something else out there.

    I'm not a fan of them myself (for music anyway), but a lot of people seem to like the active Blue Skies.
     
  7. z5461313

    z5461313
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    The Gallos are rubbish imho

    They have a harsh sound because of their metal enclosures and the sub-woofer is pants

    Listened to them 3 times now and they always sound poor

    Kef 2005.2 is not much better either

    Choices you have at the moment are 1. Bose, 2. Definitive Technology, 3. M&K

    I would listen to these 3 as they seem the best out there and are still lifestyle speakers so are room friendly
     
  8. howesey

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    Do not forget Monitor Audio's Radius series.
     
  9. FeisalK

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    Paradigm Cinema Series are small as well (about as big as 2 Bose cubes) and sound really good
     
  10. superpixel

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    Update:

    Just come back from a whole afternoon playing with M&K stuff.

    Never heard them before (and never seen them in a recording studio either, and I've worked in a fair few), but expected good things (transparency, dynamics, and a capability to go seriously loud).

    Unfortunately, they are some of the worst sounding speakers I've heard, especially for their asking price. Heard two systems (Denon 3805 with Xenon LCR25, tripole surrrounds and VX-860 sub and the top-of-the-range Denon amp with £4500 of M&K '850' system).

    Both systems sounded poor, I would describe the sound as brittle, anaemic, lacking in detail, dynamics and richness and the three biggest surprises of all - 1) the speakers really strained when reaching higher volume levels 2) the tripole surrounds still don't produce the excellent surround field of the Bose (and no, I wouldn't have believed it either, but I've heard it folks)

    Oh, and I wasn't impressed in the slightest with the M&K subs.

    Anyway, I think it's either a Bose again or a Harman Kardon/Gallo combo with a Due for the centre. The Bose suddenly doesn't seem such poor value...
     
  11. radio

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    If you want sattelite style speakers look into the kef eggs they are great for what they cost and compared to sat systems.

    Then pair it with some nad or arcam or go a bit lower and get the marantz or denon...


     
  12. chris

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    Obviously your ear's and tastes in sound are different from other peoples.
    I have not heard the gallos and i have never really liked the bose systems, after reading many reviews, user comments, and listerning in the local Bose outlet.
    But i did own the M&K s85's and have heard MPS1510, 850, k7, k4, k5, k17 and i love the sound of M&K.....i like that " in your face " sound.
    I've tried B&W 601 and 602s2's and was not struck on the sound of them, it was to flat for me.
    I now own PMC GB1's, which i fill have the in your face sound like M&K but with a lot lower extension.
    It's nice to have someone on the forum that likes Bose because there is not many of you around, but there must be loads of you out there some where ( i think they must all live round by me ), or they wouldernt be opening dedicated bose shop's.........unless of course to many other dealers are dropping them from there range.

    But it's the old saying...." you pays your money, you takes your choice "...if you like bose then, buy it.....dont try and question why you do.........your just one of them people with a bose kind of hearing.
     
  13. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Superpixel where in the UK are you? please let me know as i would like you to hear the canton CD series speakers
     
  14. Ian J

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    Is the same dealer again ?

    The M&K sound is one that you either like or you don't. I love the sound that they produce but equally I understand that it isn't to everyone's taste. I've never heard the Xenon system but if you are saying that the 850 lacks dynamics and detail I would suggest that the system you heard was faulty or setup by the Saturday schoolboy as dynamics they have a plenty.

    The 850 are of a similar standard to my own MPS1510 and they don't sound strained even at reference level but I do agree that there may be better value subwoofers for the money.
     
  15. Nobber22

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    I dislike the M&K sound, but I have never heard a (properly setup) demo where they were lacking in detail or dynamics. :nono:

    Their subs are expensive but they do kick a$$. :)
     
  16. pacificwave123

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    :lesson: Most electronic stores don't bother to setup the components and speakers properly. Chances are the Bose system was factroy configured to work right out of the box (output levels set on MAX and crossovers correctly dialed in) as opposed to the HK Gallo combo which most likely required proper setup. Most electronic stores just plug the receiver in, shove some wire in the terminals and call it a day! The only fair way to compare the two systems is to set them up correctly and....

    1)Make sure the sub/sat crossover is correct so there is no sound gap. Trust me if there is a sound gap the entire soundstage will be ruined.

    2)Make sure the output levels are set correctly. If they are stuck on the factory default setting (0) the receiver will sound weak and anemic!

    3)The Harman Kardon AVR630 is very powerful but requires an EXTENSIVE setup trust me.

    4)Were the speakers possitioned in bad spots in the room? Placement does a lot.

    I hope that people realize that stores just don't setup most of their products properly and that is why in the store they can sound dissapointing. :(
     
  17. Andywilliams

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    Hi Superpixel
    Come and have a listen to my set up then and see (hear) whether m&k and harman kardon lack dynamics and detail seems youve been listening to something totaly different to what ive got :confused: .
    Have listened to the top bose systems installed at my wifes uncle, £28ks worth he should have brought 4 sony all in ones just my tuppence worth.
    Cheers Gonzo.
    PS m&k make the finest rear speakers that ive ever heard.
     
  18. pacificwave123

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    After doing some research I came to the conclusion that anouther factor for the poor peformance of the HK and Gallo combo could be simply due to the fact that the Gallo Micros are simply pieces of junk.

    The Gallo micros only utilize a 3" full range driver that goes from 80hz-16khz(around there). :thumbsdow To put it simple there is no way one full range driver can do a good enough job producing that much sound. The bose probably sounded more detailed because they cut off at 200hz so there is less of a chance for bass to mud up the mid and high notes. No matter how good of an amp the Gallo Micros are wired to they will sound no better than sats found in a cheap home theater in a box setup. One other thing, the gallo micros are very placement sensitive, to get a sub to blend well with the micros is also very difficult too.

    If you want to demo some GOOD sat /sub combos I would suggest taking a look at any system made by Infinity such as their Modulus setup, Oreus setup, or thier TSS-1100 or 750 setup. Trust me any one of these will perform folds better than the Gallo Micros or Bose :) .
     
  19. z5461313

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    Agreed Gallo micros are junk :thumbsdow

    Also your right on the infinity speakers - these are good sounding and should be checked out indeed
     
  20. recruit

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    I have only just seen this thread and can't believe what i am reading :eek:

    You need to go and listen to a properly setup system!!!

    Lacking in Detail :lease:

    :suicide:
     
  21. MartinImber

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    How about a Castle Compact system - good sound and real wod veneer.

    Also audiophile friendly and look good
     
  22. Markie Boy

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    I too know the kind of % made on Bose here in Australia and to be perfectly honest its no better than most other hifi brands. Its better than electronics (because its classed as a speaker - which generally have better margin than electronics) but nothing major.
     
  23. crocandy

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    i have just replaced my Bose acc. 15's with the Canton Cd series and am blown away by them. Its nice to base when i need base rather than a constant thump. Well worth checking out.
     
  24. superpixel

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    Update #2 - Investigating the Gallos further

    Me and the old man went to a very respectable dealer in London y'day - if he doesn't know how to setup a system, then nobody does.

    He didn't have a single Gallo sub to demo, but used a Velodyne SPL-1200 II at £1050 worth instead, which people say is much better - but as I've found (and still am finding) this counts for little.

    Anyway - swapping the centre from Micro to Due did everything we wanted - dialogue, air, transparency suddenly came alive. Overall on balance, 1 Due + four Micros was the best compact speaker combo for music and movies we have heard - though not the best in every department by any means. 5 Micros still didn't beat the Bose.

    The subwoofer however was...I hate to say it... disappointing in this setup. :eek: And this was the model we had planned on getting instead of the TR2 if we opted for Gallo. Accounting for subs being extremely room-dependent and so on, the Gallo we heard just had bags more dynamism and slam. With music, it was night and day - we started to dance in the demo room with the Gallo TR2, but with the Velodyne we just frowned at the rather slow, albeit deep bass. I think the problem is one of design/purpose rather than quality - with a rudimentary test tones CD, the Velodyne rolled off above 60Hz, but had superb output from 20Hz to 50Hz. The Gallo couldn't go as deep or loud, but my guess is it integrates with the satellites like a dream - and those higher bass tones would add to the punch and speed a lot.

    My dad will be buying: 1 x Due, 2 x A'Diva, 2 x Micro, Harman Kardon AVR635 and Gallo TR2 sub.

    We found that the Bose system was excellent and one of the best, and that the Gallo TR2 subwoofer (this is their new design, with a 250W RMS amp and 10" driver custom-made by Peerless) is an absolute cracker - at an incredible size and nice price. Who'd have believed it eh?
     
  25. Joe Fernand

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    Hello Superpixel

    Pretty much most of us who sell Gallo kit - the 'satellite' combination you've arrived at is the one we supply most of the time :)

    Sub wise I'd agree that the TR2 is a bargain - though I'm surprised the SPL didn't work for you; I use the SPL 800 (mk1) at home and mighty good it sounds too.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS Don't be surprised if the Gallo's sound horrid when you get them home - they take a while to 'run in'; set them to play some full range music at moderate levels when you leave the house for the first few days!!!
     

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